I have a XJR 2002, but I believe this issue and hopefully solution will apply for all X308 models.

1. I am trying to find out what happened to my starter.

2. I have some tips and tricks on removing and replacing the starter motor.



Let me start with what happened.

Since a month or 2 my starter motor was making some noise. Mainly after it had started the car.

1 month ago, it wouldn’t start at all and apparently the battery went dead. With a new battery the car started fine, then the noise came back.

3 days ago, the car wouldn’t start again. The starter engaged but it felt like it missed the power to start the car. When holding the ignition on for 1 or 2 seconds it suddenly started to crank and after a couple of turns the car started. Immediately followed by a horrible rattling sound which disappeared after another 10 or 20 seconds.

I drove the car home without any issues at all. After stopping and trying to restart, I could here the starter spin, but not doing anything.



1. Starter motor (housing and bearing) in pieces.

I removed my starter motor (procedure described below) and found the housing and ball bearing had been shred to pieces (see pictures).


starter

starter ball bearing


No question it will need replacement, but I do have some questions some of you may be able to help me out with.

a. What could have caused this damage? My current guess is that the starter didn’t engage and disengage properly, which would explain the issues described. If so, replacing the starter could solve the problem, although I probably need to check all electrical connections as well as the power of the battery and the alternator.

Another issue could be the connection between the starter and the flywheel. However, the teeth on the cog of the starter look fine and the engine is running without any issues.

Any ideas much appreciated.

b. I am sure some pieces have landed in the housing of the transmission. The part where the torque converter is. There are openings at the bottom, so smaller pieces should just fall out. I am now checking if I have all larger pieces of the starter housing. If not, they must still be in there. Should I check for any damages to the torque converter housing? If so…how? (without having to take out the transmission…if possible).

Note: my model has the Mercedes 722.6 transmission. Not sure if this is the same or different for the ZF transmissions.

Any thoughts on these 2 points would be very helpful.



2. Removing / replacing the starter without removing steering rack

I was able to remove the starter without removing the steering rack (as described in JTIS). It wasn’t difficult at all.

There are plenty of posts describing the procedure. Here a pdf.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/a...i-86.60.01.pdf

I removed a black plastic tube (I will post a picture. No clue what it is for) which is on the LH side of the oil sump. This gave me enough access without removing the steering rack.

For the top bolt I used: 17mm socket, 3” extension, joint, 2x 6” extension. For the bottom I used 17mm socket, 2x6” extension, joint, 1x3” extensions (all 3/4). I will post some pictures of the tools and positioning when I place the new starter.

I hope this is helpful.

 

I'm guessing the bendix stayed engaged and the flywheel spun the tiny start gear to where the bearing gave way and it went awkward at some point and disintegrated into oblivion. Which probably caused the pieces to fly off and crack the head case. Be sure to get all of those head case pieces out of your bellhousing.

Nice useful info on the removal process...good work...look forward to the additional pics.

 

Thanks Highhorse,

I will go for the bendix. Seems to make most sense. Still the question "why" that would happen? Simple wear and tear? Or an electrical problem?

Just ordered some "dentist tools" that were on my wishlist to make sure I get all pieces out.
New starter takes about 3 days for delivery. Taking the opportunity to change transmission fluid and filter.

 

Perhaps a starter or flywheel gear got nicked somehow or would be most likely, a part wore from usage as you suggest.... to where it lodged in the flywheel gear? You should be able to see it on the flywheel...I'd inspect that pretty well so the next starter doesn't suffer the same fate. Should be able to remove the plugs and spin the crank.
I'd try picking up a magnetic tipped rod of some type to fish with. I have a tool I use for my contracting (a dongle) ...the stick is made of lead and is very flexible. A tool like that would be helpful.

 

I never curse when working on my XJR. Today was the first time.

I have replaced the starter motor, replaced the cam cover gaskets and changed the transmission oil & filter.
After hooking the whole thing back up I got a high pitch squeaking noise from somewhere in the engine bay, combined with smoke and a burning smell.
It seems to be coming from the RH side aproximately where the starter motor is.

My thought is now that the startermotor is not disengaging. Though I am not sure. Anyway to check this?
Removing the starter and checking if the symptoms go away would be a nice option, but... where are the days that cars could be started with a manual crank
Really (really) need some help here.

 

Did you check the flywheel like I suggested?

 

I am prettu sure I got all pieces out of the bellhouse.
Still not sure how to spin or inspect the flywheel. Can you explaimn what you meant by removing plugs and spin the crank?

I am also considering to take the starter out again amd check if the solinoid is working.
Maybe drive the car up a slope nearby and start it rolling down. Wouldnt work with an automatic, would it?

 

Sorry to reply on my own reply. I am trying to get a picture of what I a up against.
First of all, I suspect the issue is related to the starter/flywheel, but I am not 100% sure.
Easiest way to figure it out would be to have a running engine without the starter motor engaged (or installed). No idea how to do that. Uninstalling a starter motor with a running engine and with the starter motor possibly engaged sounds like a really bad idea. No clue how to start without a starter motor...

If it is indeed the starter motor somehow not disengaging it can either be the starter motor itself, which I can bench test, or it would be an issue with the flywheel (other options?).
I am clueless on how to inspect the flywheel. If it is indeed a problem with the flywheel, I assume I will have to take the whole engine and transmission out to replace it. Right? (I so hope I am wrong).

 

You can remove the coil units and spark plugs, then us a 24mm socket to turn the engine by hand. The engine is only to be rotated in a clockwise direction when viewed from the front of the vehicle or damage to main and rod bearing surfaces is the result.

Remove the negative terminal from the battery and remove the starter motor so the flywheel ring gear can be viewed as the engine is rotated. Have the starter motor inspected and tested by a Jaguar specialist or an electrical specialist.

 

Not disengaging starter motor would not produce "high pitch squeaking noise" but more like high pitch buzzing sound. Is the smell like burning rubber? I would check the belts for tension and for any seized pulley.

 

it is squeaking, not buzzing. since the smoke and smell are coming from the rear LH side (right above the starter). I dont think there are any belts there?

as for the flywheel inspection: what would I be looking for?

 

Cracks, ..malformed or broken gears, excessive wear from the starter gear engagement or incorrect engagement.
If there is a bad spot(s), you should see fresh metal exposed.

Also watch to see if its out of round, the ring gear could have gone oval.

 

Should I consider to lubricate the gears on the flywheel and starter?
These parts normally do not require lubrication but considering mileage...?
If so, what would be best to use?
Is it recommended to clean the flywheel with WD40?

 

No lubrication is used on this, it wouldn't last long anyways with the centrifugal force. Then it would do nothing but catch dirt and create other issues.

 

As suggested by Highhorse I inspected the flywheel. Should have done that before installing the new starter (as he suggested).
Below some pictures.
The teeth on the flywheel look worn. Not all, but about half. No idea how serious this is.
I consider the pictures off the housing where the starter sits more problematic. Really no idea what I am looking at as I dont know what it is supposed to look like.
Also no idea how this would affect the starter/flywheel connection.
As far as I can tell the flywheel is turning free. Cant here anything suspicious when turning the crank.

Anyone any suggestions on how serious this issue is and how to resolve it? I will try anything that does not involve taking out the engine or transmission.

 

Forgot to mention:
No damages visible on the new starter.

 

Those teeth should be square, but could have been damaged from the other starter or there's a misalignment with the starter.
The damage you have on the casing mount, can you take one further back? That damage looks pretty bad.

These are pics I copied online to show the teeth.






Is this the area that's damaged?

 

Hi VivaJag,

I have merged your two threads so the entire account is in the same place.

It appears from your photos that the failure of the starter bearing allowed the gear to come into contact with the edge of the hole in the mounting flange that is integral with the engine block, where Highhorse put his yellow/orange arrow and ring in the diagrams he posted. Is that correct? Or possibly the starter solenoid failed to disengage the starter gear and it bound and was forced sideward by the flywheel, cracking the starter case and destroying the bearing?

From what you can tell, is the starter able to mount securely with no ability to move from the torque of the motor engaging the flywheel?

I may have missed it, but are you absolutely certain you have gotten all of the broken metal out of the bellhousing? An inspection borescope/endoscope might allow you to do a more thorough inspection through the starter opening, and if your 722.6 has it, the hole on the underside of the bellhousing. You might check with your local auto parts stores to see if you can rent a scope. There are inexpensive scope cameras available on Amazon and eBay that will work with your phone.

From what I can tell from your photos, the flywheel teeth appear to have been worn on one corner, but they don't appear to be chipped, broken, or worn short.

Just to be sure we all understand, the new starter will start the engine, and it is with the engine running that you are hearing the squeaking and seeing smoke?

Could the smoke be from oil leaking from the cam cover gasket onto the exhaust? Could the gasket have rolled somewhere at the rear of the cam cover?

Sorry if I'm asking questions you've already answered.

Cheers,

Don

 

Quite a few aluminium chunks have broken off the starter motor and the starter opening on the block. It is possible that a chunk has fallen in and is wedged between the block and the flex plate making the squeaking noise. A thin probe bore scope can probably see it.

 

Thanks Don B for merging the posts and thanks all for your comments.

The damage on the housing is on the spot indicated by Highhorse. Somewhere between 9 and 12 oclock of the starter motor opening (looking outside in).
All images I have found are from the outside/front. I would like to see one from the inside/back so I can compare.
Does any one have one?

I have all parts of the old starter motor. Both pieces do not show any marks. From the inside I am not sure I have all bearings *****. The rest seems to be all there.
I will inspect the whole thing once more, now that I know some parts of the housing may be missing as well.

Still considering to drill a small hole in the bellhouse to stick a camera through so I can see the starter engaging and disengaging.
Do you think that is possible?