Here it is guys, my official "I'm done with Jaguars forever and why" thread.
Regarding my 78k mile '98 xj8l, here's my story for those interested.
I bought this car with a failed transmission at 77k miles two years ago.

The previously fine running engine suddenly wouldn't start intermittently after the car was delivered to me on the tow truck. This turned out to be a failed(burned) connection to the fuel pump inside the tank. (I made a thread about this and posted a good source for a replacement pump.) No mean task, changing a fuel pump in one these cars by the way.

A local shop did the trans overhaul and all was well other than the O2 sensors were connected incorrectly by the trans. shop. Identical connectors side by side, brilliant!
The fuel pump issue complicated this diagnosis. Once the fuel pump was replaced and two years had passed due to illness an experienced Jag man with proper diagnostic machines found the fault in a flash, my trans shop even paid for the repair.

SO, here I am two years later finally pressing it into daily service as my 251k mile BMW needs a bit of work, parts are on order.
A few days driving with a "rough" feeling brake pedal and a groan from the left front when stopping is attributed to a sticky caliper or maybe a pad having left a rust spot on the rotor. No such luck, the noise and roughness now persists while driving. A wheel bearing has perished, at only 78 k miles.
Hey, the bearing is cheap. Guess what, bend over and grab your ankles for the tool to remove it. Is there some reason a hex nut wouldn't do?? What are they thinking? While "in there" I see the upper shock absorber bushing is disintegrating into a brown dust. Lovely.

God knows what else had failed on this thing before my tenure but I can attest to three significant items plus I did the t-chain tensioners and t-stat housing as preventative medicine for some well known failings, all on a low mile car. All attributable to poor design, build or material.

I'm convinced my mileage is correct. The car has previously seen adequate care, it has always been owned by mature adults, never wrecked and lived in a garage under a cover.

I've always been a sucker for a pretty car. My tolerance for fixing things is pretty high. I own some "exotics" and my usual daily cars are all very high mileage without near the failure rate of this Jag which is a virgin by comparison. My vintage FERRARI is a more reliable car!
I'm done. This is my second Jag, the first being an XJ6 many years ago that was just as troublesome for it's original owner. That car educated me about Jaguar resale values. Seems I'm about to get a refresher.
Once the wheel bearing is fixed and some peeling clear coat is re-sprayed, another quality issue, this thing is for sale.
You guys can figure the value of the repairs done to this car. Do you think I have a PRAYER of recovering even that?
This car is a beautiful woman with venereal disease. I would gladly suffer the sores for an E type but this ain't no E type.
If any of you fellows would like a lovely example of this miserable breed please do get in touch.
Many thanks to those who've offered advice and shared their wisdom.

 

Sorry you feel that way Ross....

Why not add it into the forum classifeds section?
Its more likely to get interest there I'd imagine.

Good luck with the sale.

 

More than one way to skin a cat- you could just source the whole wishbone wheel assembly from a breakers and be off to the races with 90% less headache and probably less $$. I swap with used whenever I can and it has saved me tons of hassle and $. I GAVE away a front end a little while back so I know they are not in great demand (READ:little $$)

Sometimes if you sit back and look at the big picture, things don't look so bleak- certainly our cars require attention, but there are ways to maintain them inexpensively and without too much headache.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to replace a fuel pump in an XK8 (doesn't need it yet) through the cabin- not sure it can be done, but there has to be an easier way than what has been described.

 

I strongly think whoever sold it to you lied.
Seems like they beat the **** out of this car to blow the transmission so early, worst of all people always neglect automatics and CVT doesn't handle that well.

I have to ask what is this vintage Ferrari you speak of? Maybe some pictures =]
I'm definitely not a huge fan of Ferraris........

 

The car is absolutely as represented. I know my way around cars.
It is common knowledge that the ZF trans in these, a 5 speed not CVT, is prone to certain early failures. Neglect? Have you checked your owner's manual? I don't believe the word transmission even occurs in the maintenance section. NO service is recommended and most (not knowing better) owners will take them at their word. "Lifetime fill" of these units assures premature failures even if the weak components do not.
The F car is a 1982 400i.

 

I have already "skinned the cat" as brute force is my friend and that ridiculous nut is off. The spring and pins doodad that locks it is another oddity with no apparent reason. There must be something in the water at Coventry, perhaps lead or mercury. The headaches this car presents at this mileage are inexcusable, nor are they uncommon.
As for the fuel pump R&R. The only way to get it from the cabin is to cut through the package shelf and then pull a fuel dripping mess into your lovely hide clad interior.
It's a big PITA to remove the tank but is the only way to do it without butchering your car. Disconnecting the driveshaft at the diff gives you room, barely, to work. Be careful not to brutalize the fuel lines.
Enjoy, I've been there and have the T shirt.

 

Thanks, Jim.
I'll do that it once it's in better shape.
I REALLY , REALLY tried to be patient with this car, I like this car and accept a few faults in any car especially an old one, especially a British or Italian one.

Ironically, I have probably made it just right for the next guy but I'll take that chance along with my lumps already suffered.

 

I hear you Ross…in as much as I LOVE our '99 XJ8 VDP, I can't do it anymore. In the 4 years we've owned the car, more issues have arisen with this car than any other we have owned in our 28 years together…and as you state, with our Jag having far fewer miles than we've ever put on our other vehicles.

So, as of last week my wife has returned to driving a german-engineered vehicle, with the purchase of her A6 Quattro. We had great luck with the 6 we had before, the 3 mercedes and the 2 bimmers. So as much as I love Vandy's looks, style and ride…it's time she has a new home.

Fuel pump…we are on our 3rd…although, the last was left in place after discovering the "failed/burned connection" of which I believe you also mentioned. Yep, stupid connection…which now, no longer exists to cause problems.

Love the car, love the ride…hate the lack of reliability. As I told my wife just last evening when she asked if I had a buyer yet, "…love the car, love the body style, but wouldn't purchase another…maybe the next newer model, but not the another 308".

No offense to anyone who owns and loves the 308's…I love ours. Just can't, don't want to continue to do what it takes to keep ours on the road. In as much as i'd love to try to justify just keeping her…because she represents one of the cars on my long list of "to own".

 

I bought my 1999 XJR well knowing that it would be a huge pain in the butt. And I have had a few problems in the 2 1/2 months that I've owned it. And it still needs more work. I don't care. I researched the car, and knew what I was in for. Still, nothing comes close to the feeling of driving a Jaguar (especially an X308), and the attention it brings.

It is very possible that your car was abused at some point. The bushings in the front end of mine are just going bad, along with the front shocks, and I have 150,000 miles on it.

 

Also, it's quite possible that being out of service for 2 years may be why the bushings and wheel bearing went bad. Sitting around is tough on any vehicle.

Regardless, best of luck in selling her. I'd be interested in it for my wife, but I have my hands (and wallet) full with the one I already own... ;-)

 

I know I'm not alone.
Why can't they get it right? Ford* gave 'em a bunch of cash, they went to Japanese electronics(apparently to bespoke Jag specs), invented a new engine (looking over BMW's shoulder?) and made the car a bit more conventional.
The dealers and factory support are still the most arrogant bunch of A holes extant if you believe the stories. The folks I bought this car from took it to Jag when the trans failed and were offhandedly quoted $7k to fix it. When they declined they were fully expected to buy another car!

I've had other old Brit cars(LBCs) with cloth wiring, supposedly finicky Italians, elderly versions of damn near everything else. Only the Maserati Bi-turbo I had was worse, and those failures while aggravating and leaving me stranded were ultimately minor and covered under a warranty.

* Ford
I was told a story about the then Ford CEO Jacques Nasser who while perusing a list of highly compensated employees noted a certain Edmund Irvine( Eddie Irvine, Jaguar F1 lead driver) was at the top of the list. " Who is this Ed Irvine" he is said to have asked. Such was Ford's interest.

 

It's interesting, to say the least, to see the differences in experience with the X308 series cars. I acquired mine in 2005, when it was 6 years old, from its first owner, a "little old lady" who'd put over 80K miles on the car taking road trips with friends to elder hostels and other vacations. She'd also clearly had one significant accident once that involved the right front fender/wing.

I learned about the dreaded timing chain tensioners and self-destructing water pump impeller vanes before either had happened on my car and had those replaced. My main complaint, prior to the original fuel pump dying at approximately 140K miles in April 2012, was the random-failure mode the ignition coils display. That, of course, is not Jag's fault, but Denso's.

This car has been very, very reliable for me up through 140K, but now I've had the fuel pump failure (which isn't shocking, really) and now the occasional "Gearbox Fault" failure. I don't think that any car's transmission should fail, virtually ever, given the amount of time that automatic transmissions have been produced and tweaked. But clearly, the ZFs (at least of certain vintages) have this issue.

I intend to "drive her till she stops," which, at this point, may be sooner rather than later. However, since she only cost $13K when I bought her and I've put another 70K+ on her since then with few issues, I can't say this is an unreliable car in any meaningful sense. I had a friend with the VDP Super V8 that said his was the most reliable car he'd every owned and he regrets having parted with it.

I haven't even had any issues with the Nikasil, or at least none that are obvious.

I absolutely agree, whether with a Jaguar or any other car, that the worst possible thing you can do is to allow them to sit as "a piece of sculpture." I've dealt with several other cars that have suffered horrible declines not from wearing out, but from having things dry rot, freeze, etc., because of a lack of any regular use (and the resulting lack of regular checking of things like cars that are driven get).

 

I don't think Jags are any more unreliable than any of the junk Detroit has built over the past 30 years. Ford couldn't build a decent front-wheel drive transmission if their lives depended on it. Just ask anyone who has owned a Taurus or Windstar. GM has had major issues with poorly designed intake gaskets.

My wife's 2000 Windstar had a coil spring break and rub against the tire, melting a hole in the tire. It cost me more to replace both front strut assemblies on that, doing the work myself (which was a huge PITA, as I had to remove the wipers and cowl assembly to access the top strut nuts), than it did to have a shop replace both fuel pumps in my XJR.

So, Fords break. GM's break. Even Honda had an issue with transmissions on 2nd generation Odyssey minivans. When you fix a broken Ford, it's still a Ford. When you fix a broken Jag, you have a Jag. That's all the motivation I need to keep mine in my driveway. :-)

 

I figure my cost of ownership on my XJR is about $85/month, and every month I drive it that number will decrease. And the best part is, when I sell it, it will return most if not all of the money I have into it.

And for the record, I have not ONCE had to call for a tow truck because my jaguar broke down in my 8 years of jaguar ownership. (all of them- 7 -had over 100K miles when I bought them.

 

And ive never had to call a tow truck either in 12 years of ownership. Not even last year when i got t boned on the highway by a mustang. He got towed, i drove mine with both doors on the drivers side smashed in but still opened and closed till i got my engine back in my 05 nissan and then parked the jaguar. Will be a parts car for my next one.

 

I do sympathize ross1, the seemingly endless frustration has become too much. I previously owned a 3.2 X300, and earlier this year swapped for a 2000 4.0 X308. I too researched the known weaknesses and have spent some money on PM (secondary tensioners, thermo housing, gearbox was replaced by PO 2 years ago, not to mention brake rebuilds, all fluid changes etc.).
I agree for a higher-end -of-the-market car the basic flaws in the XJ8 are pretty much inexcusable for a marque such as Jaguar, although not all can be directly blamed on their developers (ZF gearbox A-drum failure, Nikasil, Sachs designed tensioners etc - lets put plastic in a 300hp V8....).
I must say though that apart from a couple of coil pack failures the car has been reliable, although I think my fuel pump is holding a gun to its head at present. I guess you pay your money and take your chance - I do not see that many cars on our roads 13+ years old, and Jaguar or any other maker dont care about guys like us who buy their products years down the line for a tenth or less of the original selling price, as models "progress" to other unchartered waters.
I still believe in the car however, the preformance over my old X300 is vastly superior - remember these cars are female, and require regular attention and will not always repay your love....

 

While I understand what you are saying... I have had 2 Taurus's and 1 Sable(same car) and I got one because the previous owner thought the transmission was bad and did not want to spend more on the car than what it was worth. The transmissions in those cars are not bad though. The only problem is that bolts become loose and cause the fluid to leak. Any transmission without fluid will fail. Just have to keep those bolts tight and fluid in them and they last a long time. Two of the cars I had are still running with strong tranys, the other the person I sold it to hit a bump at 70mph on the highway and broke the trany pan off. but yes still poor design because you have to tighten the bolts back up all the time.

 

Just as with the "sealed for life" superchargers I disregard what the Jaguar service recommends and stick to what I know change the fluid and filter every 30-40k on automatics. The worst is the engine oil change intervals they are recommending.
If i'm not mistaken for the 5.0l jaguar says every 15k miles!!!

CVT is a continuously variable transmission. The ZF in these cats is exactly that.

I agree completely, the only reason jaguar tells people it's sealed for life is so people will blow their transmission and hopefully sell the car to buy a newer jag from the dealer.

I don't think car manufacturers care much about their customers, after all they are in business to make money not please people.

You may have better luck selling it in spare parts. Doors, hood and interior will add up quickly. It will take longer, but worth it if you're not in a hurry to sell.

 

I agree with most of your sentiment but the ZF trans has 5 discreet ratios, not continuously variable. The lifetime fill recommendation isn't as sinister as you portray, they SHOULD go a very long time on the synthetic oils as originally filled. As any machine, they will go longer with fresh lube. "Lifetime" in this instance ultimately means lifetime of the oil.
The car will be sold intact. Hopefully to a more enthusiastic owner who will more readily forgive the car's inherent faults.

 

[QUOTE=kyle04;827094]I do sympathize ross1, the seemingly endless frustration has become too much. I previously owned a 3.2 X300, and earlier this year swapped for a 2000 4.0 X308. I too researched the known weaknesses and have spent some money on PM (secondary tensioners, thermo housing, gearbox was replaced by PO 2 years ago, not to mention brake rebuilds, all fluid changes etc.).
I agree for a higher-end -of-the-market car the basic flaws in the XJ8 are pretty much inexcusable for a marque such as Jaguar, although not all can be directly blamed on their developers (ZF gearbox A-drum failure, Nikasil, Sachs designed tensioners etc - lets put plastic in a 300hp V8....).
I must say though that apart from a couple of coil pack failures the car has been reliable, although I think my fuel pump is holding a gun to its head at present. I guess you pay your money and take your chance - I do not see that many cars on our roads 13+ years old, and Jaguar or any other maker dont care about guys like us who buy their products years down the line for a tenth or less of the original selling price, as models "progress" to other unchartered waters.
I still believe in the car however, the preformance over my old X300 is vastly superior - remember these cars are female, and require regular attention and will not always repay your love....[/QUOTE]

THIS ^ is the best wisdom on the forum.
An E type is Heidi Klum for whom I'd gladly suffer, this 308 is a far bit more pedestrian so not worth the effort.