Im posting this on X308 for AJ8 engines, but it would equally apply to AJ16 X300 cars

the coil on plug is an OK thing but could there be an alternative which does away with them in favor of something more robust and more flexible on timing

MSD crank trigger ignition system?

MSD spark generator like a 6AL?

simple HT leads connected to plugs?

ultimately the goal is to ensure that there are no more dead coils to worry about by adapting to an alternative

what determines the sequence of the firing order on the stock set up?....the ECU in combination with the Crank Position Sensor

?

 

COPs have advantages and last a long time unless nasty cheap ones are used (OE aren't) or they get contaminated (fix the source).

 

I entirely agree with the principle that a firing coil for every plug is a good system when they all fire together equally....or at least when the differences in individual performance are so small as to not make any difference

Some things on my starting thread are not applicable.....

Use of a MSD 6AL....I believe this module is only applicable for cars with traditional distributors as far as I can see.....and the MSD crank trigger mechanism does not function in the same way as our crank shaft positioning sensor which simply determines the set timing point before top dead center on every revolution.....

However I do see these types of MSD coil packsbeing a possible replacement for the COP units

https://www.google.com.ua/search?q=m...k2AVIQ_AUIBygB

Either single units remotely mounted and ht lead to plug or even one of MSD,s own COP units for LS1 or similar

I'm no electronics or ignition expert....I'm a spanner monkey....car electrics are a black art to me....if it doesn't move then it must be magic and I must pray to it

But with the cost of replacing eight stock coil packs with oem running around £500/$700 there may be some alternative.....and one can't deny that MSD do make a pretty good product....yes it may cost more to change the system but it might then be a better system.....some red bits in the engine compartment would look pretty as a bonus ;-)

 

I don't have any experience with MSD systems, but the only way I could see this being a possibility is one of two ways....either have a stand alone ECU and having the factory CRK/CAM position sensor signals translated by the stand alone ECU or by having a harmonic balancer/crank sensor setup like the X300 but with the correct number of teeth on it.

 

I am sure you could rig an alternative ignition for either an AJ26 or AJ27 engine, but so what? The rig would certainly be more expensive, would not have integrated diagnostics and I seriously doubt it coulf be more reliable given that "one off" electrical designs seldom have the testing done that the stock circuits do.

You may be confusing X-300 coils with ones used on an XJ8. They are not the samer, and the XV8 coils have not (So far) had many reports of failure.

 

by teeth do you mean electromagnetic pick up points that react with the cps?...I wasn't sure it worked that way

Rethinking it... on the 8's or the 6's each MSD coil (or multi coil pack) could be remotely located and an HT fed to each plug...that is plain enough

But the 'wiring' which plugs into each existing cop would need to be connected to each remote MSD coil....OK not so simple as tidily re routing the 'wiring' is going to be job and the no doubt the existing cop connectors are not going to work with a different type of coil unit

Or easiest.....

http://msdignition.shptron.com/p/bla...oyote-set-of-8

Certainly something like it ...barring length, connectors and bolting working out... If I could I would fit MSD quality over the denso units

 

While we're deluding ourselves about the good old days, let's toss the EFI system and bring back carburetors. Maybe delete the knock sensors as long that they bring back 100AKI fuel?

COP is probably the best thing that's happened to ignition systems since the advent of HEI in the early 70s.

Much like the MSD systems used on 'old school' engines, they don't add to performance in any tangible way as compared to stock ignition in good condition. A bigger, nastier spark does not translate to more horsepower.

The cost of the MSD system you've linked to is about the same price as a full set of OEM Jag coils. Since there's no real reliability issue with the stock system, what's to be gained?

 

cop is certainly good...even best

but this SNG Barratt part number LNE1510AB for an X308 cop is £77 inc taxes so about $110 each....there's nearly $900 for you...

there's also the 'alternative' for half price if you want to take a chance.....

and for what supposedly ...OEM?....that little catch phrase that is thrown around a tad too much...

it might supposedly be to original manufacturers specification but i doubt the quality of OEM after market manufacturers is what it was for 'original equipment'.....

but even original equipment was then and this is now...Im talking MSD product quality assurance for a company that has built its almost household name on ignition....

when was the last time you saw a top fuel drag car using 'denso' ignition

I beg to differ that MSD is not all old school and i'm not knocking denso who have been around a long time....

Anyway I have put the question to MSD so lets see what they come up with

 

If there was a reliability problem with the OEM coils and sufficient demand for a lower cost aftermarket product, MSD might be a good supplier if they decided they can make money at it.

I think you're trying to fix a pretty much non-existent problem.

 

Bad coils are a non existent problem....errr ok

 

I'll let the two of you come to consensus.

 

My friend bought cheapo coils for his AJ16, and within a year 5 out of 6 had failed. Meanwhile, all 8 of my NipponDenso coils (OEM) are going strong after 138K miles.

So, while I believe that people have failure problems, I suspect most of those are due to cheap coils being fitted.

 

Yea point taken the x308 coils are not noted for being as bad as an x300.....And I did mention that this thread was generic and inclusive of x300

 

Well, actually you seem to have completely missed my point.

It was supposed to be about good quality vs. poor quality coils.

 

Thank you ...I dont think I missed any point on quality being an issue...I would suggest that MSD may just design a more robust product compared to some ignition component manufacturers who must competitively make a product to optimum cost v performance v longevity for the mass production car market

 

Maybe ask the mods to move this to the X300 forum where is has some applicability?

 

COP systems are not necessarily the best approach.

One weakness of COP systems is heat. The traditional separate coil
has oil cooled windings.

One COP system that did have oil cooling is the DICE system on late
Saabs. It is a COP system that has all COP units for a cylinder bank
mounted as a single module containing a common oil cooling bath.

The six pack coil from a third gen Toyota Supra would be suitable
for a six cylinder application. It has six conventional high tension
connectors. Figure out how to trigger the primary and the job is
done. These coil packs are extremely reliable.

 

Well, there is no similarity between the X-300 and X-308 coils except they both came on a jaguar and maybe the same supplier. Apparently it is difficult to get good replacement X-300 coils, so this might have application there.

Few X-308 coil problems are reported, and no one has made claims that the replacements are not good AFAIK. I have 600,000 miles on 3 X-308s and have never had a single coil failure, much less a reason to cobble something. I had one X-300 coil failure and replaced it with a used OEM one with good results.

And by the way, you have a pretty good chance of fitting another coil to the ECU / amp of an AJ26 engine, but the ignition amp is integral to the coil on an AJ27, so good luck.

 

Consensus and truth are not necessarily related!

 

Seriously, anybody give a crap? If you use the engine to put it into dragster or boat, you will need new controls, otherwise you are wasting money and our time.