Hi everyone,
I have a 2001 Jaguar XJR with about 110,000 miles on it. I’ve been thinking I should service the transmission soon, I am not having any issues with it currently but I think a fresh fluid change and fresh filter would make it go a lot longer, but I have heard if you aren’t having issues with your transmission then let it be or else you’ll have issues. So I guess I wanted to get your opinions on whether I should change the fluid & filter and if so what’s the best place to buy the stuff and should I do the connector or conductor plate while I’m at it?

thank you all for the help and advice

 

Hi Kroeger,

I am definitely in favor of preemptive and regular transmission maintenance.

The internet is full of anecdotal reports of transmission problems after fluid flushes and such, and a retired transmission rebuilder friend tells me it can definitely happen, especially on high-mileage transmissions that have never had the fluid changed. But I've personally never had any problems after either draining and filling or completely flushing the fluid in a Jaguar transmission.

In my opinion, you should definitely replace the connector sleeve, and should seriously consider replacing the conductor plate, but only with a genuine Mercedes or Original Equipment Manufacturer part. There have been reports of problems with the cheap reproduction conductor plates.

FCPEuro.com offers a nice kit with a gasket, filter, connector sleeve and OE conductor plate.

You can use any fluid approved on Mercedes-Benz sheet 236.14:



In addition to the M-B 236.14 fluid available from M-B dealers, some of the fluids available in the U.S. include the Fuchs TITAN ATF 4134, LiquiMoly TOP TEC 1600, Mobil ATF 134 and Pentosin ATF 134. You may also be able to find the Shell ATF 134 and Ravenol ATF M 9-serie. Check European parts vendors like FCP Euro, ECS Tuning, Turner Motorsports, Rock Auto, PartsGeek, and eBay and Amazon sellers. In the past, I've purchased Shell ATF 134 from Ryder Fleet Supply. I've also purchased a lot of transmission fluid from eBay seller partscontainer (typical disclaimers, no affiliation).

Cheers,

Don

 

IMO -- you never want to "flush" a transmission. Unless it has failed or there has been some other contamination (coolant)

I have had about 10 cars with the MB 5 speed and have never touched any of them except one. That was rebuilt at 150k when my sister had an accident in one of our MB wagons and kept driving with a damaged radiator. It never leaked ..naturally it did after the rebuild (new OE connector). Replaced again -- top up ..... had them check and added a tiny bit of fluid about 2 months later.

The original 5 speed had firmware to adjust shifts as the car aged ... this was not incorporated in later boxes. When MB developed that transmission in the 90's -- lifetime of an MB was around 150k. I own a company with a fleet of cars -- have for 30 years. A car built in 1990 was shot at 125-130k ... the engines .. the whole thing. Automotive development and fluids in the 90's changed everything -- so the "lifetime" got extended. We were getting closer to 150k out of the later 90's vehicles. They called them "lifetime" sealed transmissions because the boxes were designed to outlive the rest of the vehicle. The fluid used was also unusual and expensive ..... it's common fluid today -- not the case 20 years ago. MB was worried about people doing servicing with the wrong fluid .... and that was a common occurrence.

The 5 speed is really a robust transmission .. so I don't touch them. do inspect them for leaks. Once you see a leak -- it must be addressed immediately. I also know the history of my cars. have two XJRs .. MB wagon and my 996tt tip.

Do I think a simple pan drop and fluid refresh will hurt .... no not really. If it is done correctly ... MB no longer sells the original fluid. I have an old set sitting in the garage ,, just in case. New fluid in an older transmission can "clean" surfaces and redeposit and many do report shift feel changes. Fluid with friction material will shift differently vs clean fluid and the transmission is adjusting for age.

So the key is to do some home work .... get the correct parts .. do it by the book.

 

I attach the Daimler AG document containing procedure for 722.6 ATF drain and flush.

 

I certainly don't want to start yet another argument about the pros and cons of "flushing" transmission fluid. But while both Mercedes-Benz and ZF claimed their transmissions were "sealed for life" for a time, both companies subsequently revised their recommendations, admitting that the fluid would not last forever and must be changed. While the electronic control modules can adapt to changing viscosity and slippage/friction characteristics as the fluid ages, these adaptations have limited range and the fluid can deteriorate beyond the computer's capacity to adapt. Also, the molecular structure of the oil breaks down (as in all oils), reducing viscosity and the ability to protect moving components. Additionally, the properties of other additives deteriorate, such as friction modifiers, anti-corrosives, anti-oxidants, anti-foaming agents, etc.

While the term "flush" is often negatively associated with a process employed by commercial transmission shops to remove all the fluid from a transmission, clean the internals with solvent under pressure, then refill with new fluid under pressure, it can also apply to the process described in the document M. posted, where it simply means that all or nearly all of the old fluid is replaced with new fluid.

According to Glyn M Ruck, a Super Moderator at the MBWorld forum and an engineer who helped develop the Mercedes-Benz 236.14 transmission fluids, M-B has always recommended that the 722.6 fluid be changed as early as 39K miles/60K Km in the "Rest of the World." ZF also changed its recommendation to no more than 50K-75K miles or 8 years, whichever comes first.

You can read Glyn M Ruck's views on "sealed for life" at this thread:

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...722-6-atf.html

At 110,000 miles, Kroeger's Jag is well past the recommended fluid change interval, but probably not so worn as to be concerned about excessive contaminants. But it's always prudent to first drain the fluid from the pan into a clean container and inspect it for friction material, metal particles, sludge or evidence of coolant contamination before deciding whether to simply close it back up and refill with only the volume of fluid drained due to the risk of loosening accumulated sludge or such, or to investigate more serious issues, or if the fluid is free of contaminants, to continue with a complete flush (fluid replacement, or as my trans rebuilder friend calls it, a "transfusion").

Cheers,

Don

 

Thanks for all the opinions, and although I don’t wanna spend $250 for a new conductor plate, filter, and seal. I think I’m gonna go ahead and get that from FCP euro and do the change. I noticed that my lock on the transmission Dip stick tube is missing so I’m gonna take that as a sign that maybe someone changed it already and I’m right inline with the next service interval. I wanna take care of this car and see it live for many more miles so I think it’s worth it to change the fluid now.

Also I didn’t know that I was supposed to check the fluid to see if it should be completely flushed or not so I’ll try to do a little more research and maybe even have a mechanic help me out with it so that everything goes smoothly.

Thanks for the advice!

 

My memory is the service change came around 2004 --- fluid was also becoming more widely available. There is never a danger doing a proper service. The OP having the tamper plug removed is a flag as well .... If you can't get the $1 part when ordering things up ... what does that say? That alone would cause me to tell him to do the service had he mentioned it in the original post.

My first job out of university was refreshing the hydraulic fluids for the last of the battleships brought back into service -- mid/ later 80's when all the new fluids came into being. My family is also in the textile business and we sell to german auto companies (lot's of time there) ... this is not something I have not discussed with the engineers. Does any of this make me an expert .. No. I can tell you having been around these transmission for -- well 20+ years. Have never had or seen one go if untouched.

As far as what is recommended in the ROW ..... Again -- the world is a big place. I spend part of the year in Cape Town SA ... if I stay in town I could be in the USA. Drive a bit and I am in some of the hardest areas for an auto. Not someplace where my R could even go.

The bottom line is ... do it correctly using an approved fluid. The fluid is available under many names and cheap ... but, there are still people using the wrong fluids and cheap aftermarket filters. Fill it correctly .. and check it. It's the same thing with the superchargers ... people want to mess with them .. But, don't want to do the service by the book. Why do the failing ones always show signs of tampering ? People buy used Jaguars with green coolant ...

Also -- even at 30k .... there will be some evidence of friction material .. and/or possible production particles. At 100k plus --- will be there and should be viewed as normal.