"Are there any BAD oils out there?"

This is quite timely :

19 motor oils banned by state consumer office over deceptive labeling | NJ.com

 

"NJ is now the 6th state to ban the sale and use of the above products. " Old news.

You'd also find that not one of the oils displayed the API symbol stating the spec under which it had been certified, so no testing woud be required to know if it met the Jag spec or not. Automatic fail.

Viscosity is only one of the bits of information a consumer must be aware of when buying oil.

 

You must've misunderstood the question

I didn't ask if there were any vendors/distributors using deceptive labeling practices on motor oil bottles. I asked if there were "....any bad motor oils out there" .

Cheers
DD

 

Now you've lost me. The problem was that the oils did not meet the labelled viscosity.

To me, it is clear that an oil that doesn't meet the labelled viscosity could potentially be unsuitable. This is my definition of bad. If you look up the definition of the word "quality", one meaning is "suitable for the intended purpose". For example, I am looking for a 5w30 and instead get a 5w20. That oil would be unsuitable for use in the Jaguar and could potentially cause damage, couldn't it?

 

For many years I do believe that Mobil 1 was the leader -- and it did make a difference vs traditional oils. With testing ...... intervals were increased using the M1. But, starting almost 20 years ago the gap started to narrow -- we have many fleet cars at 8k changes that are fine when we get rid of them at 200k.

I can't think of any oil related damaged ... in almost 30 years.

I always use the specified oil -- and normally the OE filter on those cars with extended change intervals. I see more reports on cheap filters falling apart then any oil problems.

This is really important when you don't drive often and the filters say in the car for long time -- in my case it cane be 2 years

 

The oil would be unsuitable by the lack of API classification irrespective of any other factor.

 

I am happy to stand corrected....at least partially

There are lots of write-ups on the subject of the 19 banned oils. As far as I can see it is being framed as a labeling issues and not a condemnation of the product. The labeling does not match the product in the bottle.

As one source puts it, "The State Office of Weights and Measures said lab testing showed the viscosity on labels of the banned oil did not match the oil itself."

On perusal it looks like the oils in question meet various older API content standards and viscosity testing requirements, and would be suitable for many older cars........but I didn't check *all* of the 19 individually, I'll admit.

I'm still not sure that you can buy a bad oil but, clearly, due to the inaccurate labels, it IS possible to buy an oil that doesn't meet the specification shown on the bottle. Whether we'd call this a problem the quality of the oil or a problem with the quality of labeling practices of the vendor ....is another story !

I'll chalk this one up as a win for you, though. For my part I'll keep using whatever oil is on sale that day ....with an eye kept open for the 19 brands taken off the NJ shelves

Cheers
DD

 

FWIW...

In my 30+ years in the repair business .....

The oil or lubrication related failures I saw ....amazingly few in the grand scheme of things...were almost always cases of *outright owner neglect*. It was always quite obvious. There were a few cases of engine failures due to faulty filters or manufacturing defects, or broken oil cooler pipes and the like. I can't recall any engine failures that could be attributed to type of oil . That is, dino versus synthetic, name brand versus house brand, etc.

That's engine failures. Some sort of internal engine failure/damage/injury.

Engine *wear* is a different subject, of course. But once you get up to 200k-250k miles, which is pretty easy for anyone to do, the vast majority of people are no longer very concerned about engine wear. The car has likely become very low value...especially if it's a Jag.... and relegated to "extra car" duty. Most people won't be concerned about getting another 100k miles of of the old beast. The "why worry now?" attitude seems appropriate when, after all, they didn't worry for the first 200k-250k miles!

Anyone desiring exceptional engine longevity might feel differently, of course.

Cheers
DD

 

Very well put Doug, and this mirrors my own experience as I've tried to convey above.

 

Doug: I agree .. that was point.

I own a few MB's and the flexible control is based on M1 0w-40 -- So I use it.

I also use it in that other german brand that calls for it.

But in everything else .. I normally use what is "on sale" -- so the Jaguars get some full synthetic .. I don't use synthetic in any of my older Nissan 3.5 .. as they leak.

The fleet get the blends - for the extra cost we are extending the change -- most of out Lexus vehicles are at 10k with he blends

 

Below is a list of "bad" and "good" motor oils, I compiled it from many years of reading "What kind of oil should I use?" threads.

Good oils: The kind you use.
Bad Oils: The kind anyone else uses.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Vector

 

Oops - I just checked an open jug in my garage, it's marked "The kind everyone else uses"
I had better do an oil change right away!!

 

In looking a little closer, I think you were more 'right' than you've given yourself credit for. In addition to the containers not displaying an appropriate (or any) API classification, more than half the labels did not indicate any viscosity that makes sense irrespective which vehicle it's intended for..

http://nj.gov/oag/newsreleases14/Mot...banned-NJ1.pdf

Instead of '5W30' or '10W40' etc. as would be required to meet Jag's or any OEM's spec, the oils simply say '5-30' or '10-40'. There's no such thing.

Other than the product being sold in gas stations and having 'motor oil' on the label, there's little that would make the average consumer think that this might be for the engine of a car.

I'd say point goes to Doug.

 

Mobil-1 Synthetic Motor Oil, 5w-30
Jaguar genuine filter
Change annually ~ 6K miles.

 

What is "flexible control"?

 

A contradiction in terms?

I think it's MB's system where the car computes the remaining life of the engine oil using time, miles, temp, load etc.

Many modern car have a similar proven system yet people still change their oil prematurely.

 

I had a BMW E39 525 with a service indicator that calculated oil life. Essentially how it worked was to meter a given amount of fuel. The service indicator comes on every time so many gallons have been used. This isn't a bad idea, as it takes driving into account. Stop/start driving, short trips equal worse fuel consumption, therefore shorter intervals.

 

Gotcha! This may stop some of the diehards from changing their oil every other week.

 

Not likely. One of things I've learned since joining this forum is the correlation some owners make with the price or rarity of their car and a supposed need to change oil more frequently than the manufacturer recommends.

Nobody seems to question Honda or Toyota when they state 'every 10K miles' but it's commonly assumed that Jag got it wrong or are negligent when they state the same interval. I've mentioned several times that a 10K interval is already a conservative number taking into account typical driver usage patterns, so an owner arbitrarily reducing the interval by half is duplicating what the OEM has already done.

 

And why is it that after I change my oil (full synthetic), my car always runs better?
As a matter of fact, that happens after I wash it, too!