Hi all,

Issue - When attempting to start my 2002 XJ8 3.2 (97,000), all I hear is a whine noise.

Potentially Related? - The car has been sitting unused all week as waiting on a new bleed hose for the expansion tank which I noticed had a leak. After changing this hose, I started car, it started for about a couple of seconds then cut off. Since then all I hear is a whine.

Other Info -
1)From the OBD2 port I checked the batter levels and it is reading 11.4v
2)After changing the hose, I topped up the expansion tank with coolant and I also squeezed the large radiator pipes in case there was any air pockets etc.

My Question - Is the battery level too low? What should it read when the car is switched off, compared to what it should read when engine idling? Can changing a bleed hose from expansion tank affect anything (as some fluid did come out of the pipe when I changed)

I've been unable to jump start car yet, which I will try later once I'm able to get another car to boost from.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Jim

 

The whirring you describe sounds very like the starter is spinning but isn't engaging with the flywheel. Hard to see how playing around with the cooling system could affect that.

Dave in Gloucs

 

Thanks Dave,

Yeah, X308 sounds about right, cheers for letting me know.

I didn't think the work I done would have been a cause, but you just never know. With regard to the flywheel, are there any tricks that anyone know of to get it to engage?

Cheers

Jim

 

The fact that it did turn the engine over on the first try but after that it didn't could well indicate a battery that is well discharged, or worse - 'duff'.

 

Using a battery power booster I tried again, though the whining noise is still there, and it's not starting.

When I replaced the bleed pipe, which ran from the expansion tank to the thermostat housing, when I took the old one off, some of fluid was dripping out relatively fast. I've since noticed a pool of fluid under the thermostat and have been reading that the knock sensors are here. Wondering if the fluid could have hit one of these, and if so would letting the sensor dry out be the answer?

Added a picture of the pipe I replaced.






- By the way, is there a way I can move this thread to the X308 forum? Couldn't see myself, or would an admin be the only person who could move it?

Cheers again

Jim
This is the new pipe I replaced, during replacement fluid came out of the thermostat holding.
This was the hose that I replaced and the fluid came out of thermostat housing during this process

 

Can you tell where the whining is coming from, or does it only happen when starting? Also, are you getting a CEL with codes? Usually contaminated knock sensors will throw open circuit codes or something similar. Is it spinning the engine at all, or just making a noise without turning anything? The battery voltage is really low, you could also check things like the bulkhead positive connector and the ground strap.

 

11.4v is too low, it should be around 12.5v. If you hear a whine one possibility would be the alternator/generator.

 

After using the booster, I checked the voltage again and this time it read 12.3v.
The OBD2 doesn't show any new codes I'm afraid.

...moving on to day 2, I've been considering the following which I will be looking into today
1-Check if fuel pump relay tripped (inertia switch)
2-Checking fuses, specifically fuel pump fuses etc
3-Throttle valve sensor, as it appears to be in vicinity of where fluid escaped during pipe change


Edit - found the inertia switch. Difficult to get to, though didn't seemed raised. Pressed it in anyway, tried and no joy. The engine sounds as if it's turning but just not catching now.


I've added a picture of where the whine sounds like it's coming from, though I could be wrong. This makes a noise even before ignition tried so I could just be drawn to it for this reason. (circled in yellow)



Cheers again for the replies.

Jim

 

When I read the thread title, my first thought was the throttle body. Now that I've read it all the way thru and you circled it, that whine noise is completely normal. It's an electric motor inside that throttle body making the noise. To answer your concern about the engine cranks over but won't start.... Due to the low battery voltage you most likely have the famous/infamous bore wash. What you need to do is either replace the battery (which is highly recommended) if it's old and get the highest quality one (not AGM) or use a type of battery charger on a small amperage setting like 3 amps for about 24 hours.

 

Thanks for the advice, reading up on bore-wash that you suggest is making so much sense.
While the car was laid up during this week the other day I turned the engine to make sure it still would and instantly turned it off..... Will know in future not to do this again!

Whilst reading up on this I found a suggestion saying I should turn the ignition and keep it turned for about 2 minutes until it starts? Does that sound correct? I'm hesitant to do this as it sounds like it could do damage.

If I do do this, I'm aiming to connect jump leads to another car whilst doing this.

The battery in the car is new, which is what I was told when I bought it before Christmas. As for the quality of the battery, this I am not sure of though happy to replace it with proper one if I find out it isn't.

Does anyone else recommend this 2 min persistent ignition turn?

Cheers again for the help replies!

Jim

 

No, no, no, don't do that.

There are 2 ways to solve bore-wash:

1. You start the car in periods of 20 seconds, while you press the accelerator pedal to to stop all the time.
Give it some rest after the 20 seconds, then try again for several times.
The pressed pedal will cut the fuel supply (although I personally have some doubts about it, but that is for an other day).

2. If above don't work, you will have to remove the spark plugs on at least one side, add some engine oil in each bore, let it sit, close it up, and start.
The oil will restore the compression on one side, and allows the engine to start.

 

Thanks so much for the quick reply there.
Was slowly starting to talk myself into a continuous turn there.... phew.

Cheers, I'll try to intermittent starts with pedal to the metal each time.

If that doesn't work I'll go to plan B and remove the plugs. One side you say? That's halved the potential work, so great suggestion there.

May have to wait another day if plan A doesn't work there, as it's damp and miserable weather here in Glasgow today and would rather it by dry for removing the plugs.

I'll let you know how I get on either way.

Cheers again

Jim

 

Be sure ur battery is topped up, cause these cars do strange things under 12v.
I also just see you have a obd2 device.
Check if ur throttle position reads around 90 percent if the pedal fully pressed (engine off, key on).
If less, get back here before you try the start attempts.

 

Hi,

Thanks again for the advice.... she finally roars once again!

Phew.

Had jump leads connected to another car whilst attempting the starts to assure enough battery power during process.

Oddly enough, I was finding it more responsive, spluttering to start, the times I tried without holding my foot on the pedal? Once it spluttered into action I had to pump the pedal to eventually get it to keep running. Whoah, there was a LOT of fumes from the exhaust. it was white smoke, not dark thankfully. Took it a drive, though kept it under 30mph the whole way. Will feel better once it's been with my mechanic. Still some smoke coming out, though it is a cold day here...

Read your question about throttle position after I got it started, though will check this out too.

Couple of time before it started the dash read Pecus T. Not every attempt though. It's no longer on the dash now that it has started.

Now that I've got the car running (assuming it'll start again without issue when I get in it again?) I'll need to update my mechanic of the issues and ask he checkout out the thermostat sensor etc etc, in case the car's fuel is simply too rich all the time.

When I bought the car I was told it's had both CAT's replaced, which I've been told is potentially the result of too rich a mixture too.

Cheers

Jim

 

Whats wrong with AGM?!

 

Just a quick reply here Jim, I have been through all kind of battery/starting nightmares just after I got my car after some days graft and head scratching with the help of old threads on this forum I fixed it with a new earth strap between the underbody and bell housing! Then a week or two later all kind of warnings on dashboard came up and battery kept dying.

It was a genuine jag battery that was 2 years old, after much homework,again on the forum, I purchased a VARTA silver off eBay for about £85 it has been totally superb since.

 

I'd like to know too, having recently bought an AGM battery to replace my failing one. As I understood, AGM is more durable with cycled charge/discharge and overall, while SLA ("regular") batteries tend to have higher CCA than AGM.

 

my agm batteries last...

 

I don't hate AGM's, in fact I want to like them. In my personal experience with them, they just don't last that long. I bought a red top in June 2013, drove it daily until April 2015, warrantied it for a sluggish crank over after I went away for a 3 day weekend. Tested for excessive amperage draw with the new battery and system was under 50 milliamps, no lights were left on and alternator has never charged less than 14.3 volts. Fast forwarding to last December on our first 'cold snap' (upper 30's F) the next morning the engine just barely cranked over and I had enough with AGM. I think AGM is a wonderful technology but, let's face it, it hasn't been perfected. In my wife's vehicle she has a Discount Auto Parts auto craft gold (lead acid) battery that's 3 1/2 years old, never a problem. However, any battery over 3 years old is on borrowed time. I wish those original jaguar white Valeo batteries were still obtainable. The last one I replaced in a customers car was 9 years old!!

 

What batteries does Jag use now? last time I had the white top.