Wont start (same story)
#1
10-10-2013, 11:57 AM
Wont start (same story)
99 XJ8 55k miles...
Same story (as i have read)... The car refuses to kick over... the car operated flawlessly (for a jag at least) untill i parked it one day and it refuses to kick over...
I hooked up a battery pack and tried the pedal to the floor.. it atempted to kick over one day for a brief second then that stopped...
I pulled the plugs (they looked dry)... there was some oil in wells (which i assume means i have to change the seals)... dried that up, cleaned the plugs, dropped like 3/4 drops of oil in the cylinder... same story...
What do you guys suggest i try next.. how would i test if the pump is working/getting fuel to the cylinders... the plugs were bone dry when i pulled them....
I would maybe suggest that there is a problem with the key or electronics associated with the key, but it attempted to kick over a little one day, so im going to rule that out for now...
Any ideas would be much obliged..
Same story (as i have read)... The car refuses to kick over... the car operated flawlessly (for a jag at least) untill i parked it one day and it refuses to kick over...
I hooked up a battery pack and tried the pedal to the floor.. it atempted to kick over one day for a brief second then that stopped...
I pulled the plugs (they looked dry)... there was some oil in wells (which i assume means i have to change the seals)... dried that up, cleaned the plugs, dropped like 3/4 drops of oil in the cylinder... same story...
What do you guys suggest i try next.. how would i test if the pump is working/getting fuel to the cylinders... the plugs were bone dry when i pulled them....
I would maybe suggest that there is a problem with the key or electronics associated with the key, but it attempted to kick over a little one day, so im going to rule that out for now...
Any ideas would be much obliged..
#2
10-10-2013, 03:42 PM
Veteran Member
There is a schrader valve, like a tire valve, on the fuel rail. You can put a fuel pressure gauge or a tire gauge on it to test for pressure. It should be around 40 pounds. Or it should squirt out strongly when you push the middle. Are you getting any trouble codes ? Is the check engine light on ? Has it been sitting long ? By kick over, I assume you mean fire and run. It does turn over (engine spins) when you're trying to start it, right ? It sounds like you have heard of cylinder bore wash because you tried some oil in the cylinders. That is when the engine is getting little or no compression due to the oil being washed off the cylinder walls. It doesn't sound like a security issue.
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Lyndon B Johnson (10-15-2013)
#3
10-10-2013, 04:23 PM
The car has been sitting for about a week..
With kick over i meant, the engine started to fire properly and almost started but didn't... I wasnt at the wheel when this happened so i don't know if she had the pedal down or not, or why she stopped but she did and it hasn't come close to firing since... (but i was there so i know it almost started, which eliminates the key problems)
Im going to check the pressure in the fuel rail and report back..
thanks again..
With kick over i meant, the engine started to fire properly and almost started but didn't... I wasnt at the wheel when this happened so i don't know if she had the pedal down or not, or why she stopped but she did and it hasn't come close to firing since... (but i was there so i know it almost started, which eliminates the key problems)
Im going to check the pressure in the fuel rail and report back..
thanks again..
#4
10-11-2013, 03:08 AM
#5
10-12-2013, 03:26 PM
#6
10-13-2013, 05:56 AM
Senior Member
I would check that you have power to the pump before replacing it - test with a multi-meter that you have 12volts with the ignition on as close to the pump as you can get...ideally right to it...just to be sure you are not incurring unnesesary cost for a pump you may not need.....if you have power and a good earth etc. then I say it's most likely the pump at fault. If you don't have power to the pump with the ignition on or a good earth to the chassis, then that needs to be fixed first.. Earth/return can be checked with a continuity check (multi meter set to Ohms/resistance and measuring between the pump negative/earth wire and a good ground/earth point on the chassis - should read really close to zero ohms.....Hope this helps, Allan
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Lyndon B Johnson (10-15-2013)
#7
10-15-2013, 05:04 PM
I would check that you have power to the pump before replacing it - test with a multi-meter that you have 12volts with the ignition on as close to the pump as you can get...ideally right to it...just to be sure you are not incurring unnesesary cost for a pump you may not need.....if you have power and a good earth etc. then I say it's most likely the pump at fault. If you don't have power to the pump with the ignition on or a good earth to the chassis, then that needs to be fixed first.. Earth/return can be checked with a continuity check (multi meter set to Ohms/resistance and measuring between the pump negative/earth wire and a good ground/earth point on the chassis - should read really close to zero ohms.....Hope this helps, Allan
I tested it and i have 12 volts at the white bulkhead above the pump...
Are there anymore points between pump and fuel rail where there could be a problem?
If not, i have pump and since its the original pump it probably has to be changed regardless.
Thanks again for the help Allan...!
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#8
10-15-2013, 05:11 PM
#9
10-16-2013, 09:42 AM
Veteran Member
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Lyndon B Johnson (10-19-2013)
#10
10-19-2013, 02:05 AM
Whoever engineered this car is a straight fu cking idiot....
How do you put the fuel lines under the car, with such a specific/difficult connection... in a place you can barley see, let alone remove...
2 hours to strip and replace fuel pump... 2 days getting the connector off...
And who designed the filler neck run off hose .... why are the holes offset.......
I have pressure at the fuel rail, just need to swap out battery tomorrow and see if it runs...
Thanks again for all your help guys....
How do you put the fuel lines under the car, with such a specific/difficult connection... in a place you can barley see, let alone remove...
2 hours to strip and replace fuel pump... 2 days getting the connector off...
And who designed the filler neck run off hose .... why are the holes offset.......
I have pressure at the fuel rail, just need to swap out battery tomorrow and see if it runs...
Thanks again for all your help guys....
#11
10-19-2013, 08:49 AM
Senior Member
Whoever designed these cars was most certainly NOT an idiot, but someone that was trained to follow the orders to the "T".
The order was from the "top". "Let's design this unit the way that very few future owners can DIY on them, and give our service centers the oportunity to make the most profits on the 'back end'. The engineering team will get the bonus points based on the degree of dificulty, and the number of special tools needed to accomplish any given task."
This is just one of the orders. There were orders to design specific components so precise, that they WILL fail right after the "factory warranty" runs out. Some components (and the PLASTIC cam chain tensioners are NOT the only one!) were designed, and implemented in order to bring as many cars back to the service centers as possible. Now,....stick these substandard components (with a carefully calculated life span) into the places that are VERY difficult to get to by the owner, and you (as a car company) are capitalizing on the rich vain of profits, previously unavailable. Less R&D, less work, lower quality components, servicing difficulty by design, equals MORE MONEY! Pretty devious, and simple, actually.
Jaguar is NOT the only manufacturer to practice this. Right about the time when the end of the last century was only a decade or so away, car manufacturers realized that they can make more profits, without increasing the sales (which in the cut throat car market is NOT easy!), or the quality of their product. The quality went DOWN (look at the MBZ for example), which made the production CHEAPER. Design incorporated repair "solutions" that were forcing the majority of the buyers into the service centers. Parts became "dealer only item", and special tools were designed. Put the environmentalists (and their **** agencies!) in the mix (they demanded more and more "polution control"!), "safety standards" demanded by the "politically correct" agencies (the same new generation of young professionals that are so safety concious, that they barely venture in the outside world from their offices and computers), and you have cars that very few people dare to tackle. Not so much because it's "impossible" (I, for one, think that no matter what human hand assembled, I can disassemble, and put it back together!), but for the sheer reluctance to spend couple of days by stripping their knuckles, cussing, buying "special tools", and wasting time (the most precious "commodity" we are all running out off!).
Because of that last reason, I am thinking about paying someone to install the parts in my Cat next week (see my tensioner failure post). I know how to do it,.....I have the tools and means. But if someone wants to spend a day bent over the hood for couple bills, I'd gladly pay that, and spend my day with my wife, or my animals. Time IS what I'm running out of. Money is not.
So no,.....the guy (or the team that designed your Jaguar) knew exactly what was asked from him, and he delivered.
The order was from the "top". "Let's design this unit the way that very few future owners can DIY on them, and give our service centers the oportunity to make the most profits on the 'back end'. The engineering team will get the bonus points based on the degree of dificulty, and the number of special tools needed to accomplish any given task."
This is just one of the orders. There were orders to design specific components so precise, that they WILL fail right after the "factory warranty" runs out. Some components (and the PLASTIC cam chain tensioners are NOT the only one!) were designed, and implemented in order to bring as many cars back to the service centers as possible. Now,....stick these substandard components (with a carefully calculated life span) into the places that are VERY difficult to get to by the owner, and you (as a car company) are capitalizing on the rich vain of profits, previously unavailable. Less R&D, less work, lower quality components, servicing difficulty by design, equals MORE MONEY! Pretty devious, and simple, actually.
Jaguar is NOT the only manufacturer to practice this. Right about the time when the end of the last century was only a decade or so away, car manufacturers realized that they can make more profits, without increasing the sales (which in the cut throat car market is NOT easy!), or the quality of their product. The quality went DOWN (look at the MBZ for example), which made the production CHEAPER. Design incorporated repair "solutions" that were forcing the majority of the buyers into the service centers. Parts became "dealer only item", and special tools were designed. Put the environmentalists (and their **** agencies!) in the mix (they demanded more and more "polution control"!), "safety standards" demanded by the "politically correct" agencies (the same new generation of young professionals that are so safety concious, that they barely venture in the outside world from their offices and computers), and you have cars that very few people dare to tackle. Not so much because it's "impossible" (I, for one, think that no matter what human hand assembled, I can disassemble, and put it back together!), but for the sheer reluctance to spend couple of days by stripping their knuckles, cussing, buying "special tools", and wasting time (the most precious "commodity" we are all running out off!).
Because of that last reason, I am thinking about paying someone to install the parts in my Cat next week (see my tensioner failure post). I know how to do it,.....I have the tools and means. But if someone wants to spend a day bent over the hood for couple bills, I'd gladly pay that, and spend my day with my wife, or my animals. Time IS what I'm running out of. Money is not.
So no,.....the guy (or the team that designed your Jaguar) knew exactly what was asked from him, and he delivered.
The following users liked this post:
Lyndon B Johnson (10-19-2013)
#12
10-19-2013, 08:01 PM
Whoever designed these cars was most certainly NOT an idiot, but someone that was trained to follow the orders to the "T".
The order was from the "top". "Let's design this unit the way that very few future owners can DIY on them, and give our service centers the oportunity to make the most profits on the 'back end'. The engineering team will get the bonus points based on the degree of dificulty, and the number of special tools needed to accomplish any given task."
This is just one of the orders. There were orders to design specific components so precise, that they WILL fail right after the "factory warranty" runs out. Some components (and the PLASTIC cam chain tensioners are NOT the only one!) were designed, and implemented in order to bring as many cars back to the service centers as possible. Now,....stick these substandard components (with a carefully calculated life span) into the places that are VERY difficult to get to by the owner, and you (as a car company) are capitalizing on the rich vain of profits, previously unavailable. Less R&D, less work, lower quality components, servicing difficulty by design, equals MORE MONEY! Pretty devious, and simple, actually.
Jaguar is NOT the only manufacturer to practice this. Right about the time when the end of the last century was only a decade or so away, car manufacturers realized that they can make more profits, without increasing the sales (which in the cut throat car market is NOT easy!), or the quality of their product. The quality went DOWN (look at the MBZ for example), which made the production CHEAPER. Design incorporated repair "solutions" that were forcing the majority of the buyers into the service centers. Parts became "dealer only item", and special tools were designed. Put the environmentalists (and their **** agencies!) in the mix (they demanded more and more "polution control"!), "safety standards" demanded by the "politically correct" agencies (the same new generation of young professionals that are so safety concious, that they barely venture in the outside world from their offices and computers), and you have cars that very few people dare to tackle. Not so much because it's "impossible" (I, for one, think that no matter what human hand assembled, I can disassemble, and put it back together!), but for the sheer reluctance to spend couple of days by stripping their knuckles, cussing, buying "special tools", and wasting time (the most precious "commodity" we are all running out off!).
Because of that last reason, I am thinking about paying someone to install the parts in my Cat next week (see my tensioner failure post). I know how to do it,.....I have the tools and means. But if someone wants to spend a day bent over the hood for couple bills, I'd gladly pay that, and spend my day with my wife, or my animals. Time IS what I'm running out of. Money is not.
So no,.....the guy (or the team that designed your Jaguar) knew exactly what was asked from him, and he delivered.
The order was from the "top". "Let's design this unit the way that very few future owners can DIY on them, and give our service centers the oportunity to make the most profits on the 'back end'. The engineering team will get the bonus points based on the degree of dificulty, and the number of special tools needed to accomplish any given task."
This is just one of the orders. There were orders to design specific components so precise, that they WILL fail right after the "factory warranty" runs out. Some components (and the PLASTIC cam chain tensioners are NOT the only one!) were designed, and implemented in order to bring as many cars back to the service centers as possible. Now,....stick these substandard components (with a carefully calculated life span) into the places that are VERY difficult to get to by the owner, and you (as a car company) are capitalizing on the rich vain of profits, previously unavailable. Less R&D, less work, lower quality components, servicing difficulty by design, equals MORE MONEY! Pretty devious, and simple, actually.
Jaguar is NOT the only manufacturer to practice this. Right about the time when the end of the last century was only a decade or so away, car manufacturers realized that they can make more profits, without increasing the sales (which in the cut throat car market is NOT easy!), or the quality of their product. The quality went DOWN (look at the MBZ for example), which made the production CHEAPER. Design incorporated repair "solutions" that were forcing the majority of the buyers into the service centers. Parts became "dealer only item", and special tools were designed. Put the environmentalists (and their **** agencies!) in the mix (they demanded more and more "polution control"!), "safety standards" demanded by the "politically correct" agencies (the same new generation of young professionals that are so safety concious, that they barely venture in the outside world from their offices and computers), and you have cars that very few people dare to tackle. Not so much because it's "impossible" (I, for one, think that no matter what human hand assembled, I can disassemble, and put it back together!), but for the sheer reluctance to spend couple of days by stripping their knuckles, cussing, buying "special tools", and wasting time (the most precious "commodity" we are all running out off!).
Because of that last reason, I am thinking about paying someone to install the parts in my Cat next week (see my tensioner failure post). I know how to do it,.....I have the tools and means. But if someone wants to spend a day bent over the hood for couple bills, I'd gladly pay that, and spend my day with my wife, or my animals. Time IS what I'm running out of. Money is not.
So no,.....the guy (or the team that designed your Jaguar) knew exactly what was asked from him, and he delivered.
maybe "idiots" was strong ....
More like fuc-king as-sholes..... from the top down.... there's a point of diminishing return, jag smashed right through that point...
audi/mb/bmw all have there proprietary tendencies... but can design a car that doesn't flood when you move it 20 feet...
I understand your point completely... I love the style and drive... but come on jag...
#13
10-19-2013, 08:19 PM
Well heres a summary of where i stand
I have pressure at the rail (which i didn't have going into this adventure)..
I replaced fuel pump/wire/filter
I replaced battery
I replaced plugs
I oiled down cylinders while replacing plugs..
I replaced fuel/air filter
I cleaned throttle body with throttle body cleaner
I cleaned mafs with electronics cleaner
I cleaner breather
Still nothing...
I pulled pump relay after attempting to start it a couple of times, fearing i could flood the engine again... im trying to avoid having to oil the cylinders again...
What is the easiest way i can make sure im getting spark?...
I will pick up a solus comp tomorrow and see what codes im getting..
.
I have pressure at the rail (which i didn't have going into this adventure)..
I replaced fuel pump/wire/filter
I replaced battery
I replaced plugs
I oiled down cylinders while replacing plugs..
I replaced fuel/air filter
I cleaned throttle body with throttle body cleaner
I cleaned mafs with electronics cleaner
I cleaner breather
Still nothing...
I pulled pump relay after attempting to start it a couple of times, fearing i could flood the engine again... im trying to avoid having to oil the cylinders again...
What is the easiest way i can make sure im getting spark?...
I will pick up a solus comp tomorrow and see what codes im getting..
.
Last edited by Lyndon B Johnson; 10-19-2013 at 08:29 PM.
#14
10-19-2013, 08:42 PM
Veteran Member
Have you tried to start the car in “N” not “P”? See if this information helps.
Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
Also I know you are frustrated but do us all a favor and leave the “F” bomb off your next communication along with any profanity it is not what we want to read.
Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
Also I know you are frustrated but do us all a favor and leave the “F” bomb off your next communication along with any profanity it is not what we want to read.
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Lyndon B Johnson (10-19-2013)
#15
10-19-2013, 10:11 PM
If you have fuel at the cylinders, compression and spark at the right time the engine should run. Check the crankshaft position sensor. I have replaced several on older Jags (pre 96) that would not run. I would expect a code of some sort on the newer ones but fortunately have not had the chance to to test this theory.
The following users liked this post:
Lyndon B Johnson (10-19-2013)
#16
10-19-2013, 11:15 PM
Have you tried to start the car in “N” not “P”? See if this information helps.
Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
Also I know you are frustrated but do us all a favor and leave the “F” bomb off your next communication along with any profanity it is not what we want to read.
Link JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
Also I know you are frustrated but do us all a favor and leave the “F” bomb off your next communication along with any profanity it is not what we want to read.
my apologies gus.... nothing brings out the animal in me like British vehicles (land rovers)..
A. That is an excellent site...
B. I will run down the check list and trying starting in park
thanks gus
#17
10-19-2013, 11:17 PM
If you have fuel at the cylinders, compression and spark at the right time the engine should run. Check the crankshaft position sensor. I have replaced several on older Jags (pre 96) that would not run. I would expect a code of some sort on the newer ones but fortunately have not had the chance to to test this theory.
I read about this magical crankshaft sensor... I guess i will be checking that as well tomorrow
thanks bratch
#18
10-20-2013, 08:49 AM
Veteran Member
#19
10-20-2013, 02:21 PM
Just got same problem... Simply doesn't start. I had some problems before - when engine was hot - sometimes (not all the times) had problems with starting - actually it started but like not all cylinders. But after pumping by pedal or just after a few tries it started OK. When engine was cold - had no problems to start. But couple days ago I had this problem on each 'hot' start. I was on my way home and just stopped by store for couple minutes to buy some stuff. I left engine ON, my friend was in a car so it was ok to leave car on. When I came back - the engine was off. After that - it is not starting even couple cylinders. Starter is working ok but engine has no attempts to fire. For me it looks like something with fuel line - from pump to injectors or sparks. As I dont have any tools and time to do it by myself - gonna give car to mechanic - let him play with it. As soon as I have some info from him - will write here.
Last edited by prostik; 10-20-2013 at 02:24 PM.
#20
10-20-2013, 09:31 PM
