XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

XJ8 Timing tensioners and their design

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 10-20-2013 | 01:50 PM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
Default XJ8 Timing tensioners and their design

On theXJ308/XJR –

Is therea market for an independent manufacturer to produce stronger and fatter shorterbarrelled secondary tensioners (possibly made of cast iron barrels), robustsprings, and a flat fixed more robust plastic guide on their base to replacethe standard jaguar tensioners to eliminate this design fault to cope with the fatiguedone by the sideways force of the chain on the tensioner’s barrel and wearbearing slipper on the chains drive side (whether this design fault was intentionallydone by jaguar to sell more new models or not). Reference drum brake hydraulic fat metal barrelled pistons bolted onto directlya strong back plate that copes with break drum side forces as an example. One wonders what Jaguar has done to theirdesign in this area on later models.


Jaguarhave elected for fairly slim long tensioners that are not as robust as the shorterprimary hydraulic tensioners. The later3rd / 4th generation hydraulic tensioners have brittle cast alloy barrels that break upin the engine causing damage and weak springs compared with the originalplastic type. At least the latergeneration metal barrels give off a warning noise when they breakup and theassociated very lumpy running engine. Thechoice of material is also a key ingredient in the design of barrels, notbrittle case alloys or plastics. Theoriginal plastic tensioners often split along the barrels due to the chain’ssideways force causing stress on the barrels and gave no warning noises for thedriver to notice and investigate. Oddlyjaguar elected to put a cut out in these plastic barrels at the point thatsplits begin in them and one wonders why this was done in their design.


I believethat since 2003 Jaguar have since fitted the primary guides backed with an alloystrip and fitted the 3rd / 4th generation metaltensioners as standard in the xj8, xjr and later xj305. Does anyone know if this is the arrangementnow on later models?


Forsuch a short secondary timing chains couldn't Jaguar have elected to put two acentric cogs in place of the two secondary tensioners with cam end housing redesigned to take them to have stopped this designfault and the associated costly repair maintenance required and reset the cogs everysay 60,000 miles to offset any minor stretching of the secondary chains. Reference arrangement on the XJ6 intermediateacentric cog acting on 2 fixed cams. Forthe primary chains as there is more flexing the chain sides as these chains arelonger and have been given longer wear bearing chain guides to cope with this flexingand a short fat robust primary tensioner. They can be stretched far more than the secondary chains because theyare longer so the tensioner has to offset this greater stretching and theapplication of a acentric cog would be less appropiate. Jaguar appear to have sorted this fault outwith strong alloy back guides. The straightlong guides on the drive side of the chain work well enough as the chain flexesless on this side. On the other curvedside the short hydraulic tensioners work well enough but the curved guides should have been originally thickerat the point the tensioner acts on them to reduce the splitting occurs in theguides at these stress points.


1998 arrangement was a spring inside secondary tensioner pushes upper plate out along with oilhydraulic to reduce noise on start up.


In BankA RS tensioner acts upside down and pushes down acting on bottom of the secondarychain. The top of the tensioner acts asa chain guide for upper part of the secondary chain and is being pulled by VVTsprocket moving clockwise which in turn is being pulled by primary timing chainvia the crankshaft sprocket in a clockwise fashion.


In BankB LS tensioner is inserted upwards and pushes up on the upper part of secondarychain and the tensioner acts a chain guide on the lower part of secondarychain. In this bank the bottom side ofthe secondary chain is being pulled by VVT sprocket where the tensioner acts asa chain guide.


Are there any other gremlins of design engine faults or the need for in creased maintenance like replacing coil packs after 56 thousand miles that we should all watch out there on later Jaguar models before we buy them. I heard some engines shudder on later models. Do alloy bodied cars need more specialised attention?



KenXJ
 
  #2  
Old 06-22-2014 | 09:30 AM
tbraunski's Avatar
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Likes: 3
From: Eden Prairie, MN
Default 2003 XJ8 Vanden Plas

Hi Ken:

You seem to be very knowledgeable about the Jag timing chain system. I am a new Jag owner and this is my first. I will be picking up my car this week. It appears to have been very well taken care of but I think that the timing chain system is all original. The car has 72,000 miles. Can you tell me whether my car would likely have the Gen 2 (improved plastic) or Gen 3 (metal) tensioners and what I would be well advised to do at this point to make sure that I have many years of trouble free use? The Vin# is SAJDA24C73LF58255.

Please advise.

I also hear that the transmission can be a weak link in these cars. Would it be a good idea to change the transmission fluid or do anything else to make it last?

Any other items I should be looking into or be aware of?

Please advise and thank you!

Tom
 
  #3  
Old 06-22-2014 | 02:50 PM
rosskuhns's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 435
Likes: 127
From: Central Ohio, States
Default

tom, that post is almost a year old...you'll also probably have more luck in the x308 section, this is the x350/358 section (of which the timing chains are not an issue)
 
  #4  
Old 06-28-2014 | 04:24 PM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
Default Reply to Tom

Hi Tom

Sorry for not getting a reply to you earlier.

I am not that much of an expert, rather a keen enthusiast. 72K is not bad. To inspect secondary (upper) timing chains and tensioner it is relatively easy to remove 2 timing covers (14 bots) and inspect.

Typically you can see if tension is metal bodied and therefore a later generation than all plastic bodied tensioners originally fitted. The plastic bodied tensioner and lower guides are prone to cracking and are suspect to this when vehicle has done over say 70 thou miles. Cracks in upper tensioner (if original plastic bodied) or shoes / slipper worn away acting on chains sideways thrust may be seen when timing covers are off. You cannot see much more that this unless you want to do more work. I would advise to use a good garage as they will have the correct locking tools vital to replacing any stretched chains or guides. If you have a noisy engine it may be best to get a garage to look over.

Here is a couple of invaluable do it yourself links in case you want to progress any further yourself.

With oil pipe it can be tricky to get at lower bolt to raise it out of the way. To get round this can cut hole bracket to open it out to clear stud and prise it apart tpo raise oil tube out of the way of cover.

Also as cover 14 bolts can shear due to age it is important not to over-tighten then on the replacement of the covers, over wise a thread extractor of the sheared stud is may be needed. Best to replace with new bolts especially the central ones.

http://jaguar.blackonyx.net/tech/timingchain.pdf

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/V8%20Secondary%20Timing%20Chain%20Tensioner%20Repl acement.pdf

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/Tentioners%20By%20EZDriver%20of%20Holly%20Lake%20R anch.pdf





For replacing upper tensioners you can bypass some procedures as your own risk. see method in link of raising exhaust cam to replace upper tensioner


http://www.jaguarforum.co.uk/f38/i-changed-my-tensioners-myself-yesterday-8674.html

http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/12825051-Timing-Chain-Tensioners-An-easier-way-to-replace

Tools
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_view.php3?id=1242243983

I have a spreadsheet of each tools dimensions in case you want these.

Possible part source (check if these are right for your vehicle) or search online for your vehicle for other suppliers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGUAR-XJ8-XK8-V8-S-TYPE-TIMING-CHAIN-AND-TENSIONER-KIT-/350793172706?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM& hash=item51ace706e2
 
  #5  
Old 06-28-2014 | 05:19 PM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
Default

Proceedure top tensioner only

Drivers side = Bank A = RS in UK

1/ Disconnect the battery.Remove the air intake to the throttle body by unclipping it and electrical connector and cam breather tube from throttle body 2 bolts, Put a rag over the throttle body intake. Remove the coil cover and 4 coils 2 bolts each Change spark plugs if they are near 50K used. lay coils over the throttle body. Loosen the 14 bolts that hold the cam cover in place start from the outside in and remove the camcover. Note the cam cover bolts are relatively weak and become weakened more on successive undoing and retightening and are another poor aspect of Jaguar design as they must seal the oil from the long spark plug holes. Should have been 8mm not 6mm dia, this is particular true of the two central bolts. My car had two such sheared bolts. get replacement new bolts for the central ones and be very careful to delicately tighten. Take a cable tie and secure the secondary chain to the lower exhaust sprocket -nearest side of car.Rotate crank pulley with a socket to take as much tension / pressure off exhaust cam as possible, When you rotate the cams to relieve any stress/pushing on the lifters, if you are in the correct position, you can reach in with your finger and spin each lifter to confirm no pressure is being applied to them from the cam lobes, then you know you can safely remove the cam caps test value tops can rotate by hand. Very important at this stage not to jump a tooth when undo and retighten down exhaust cam in its original position. Wipe off oil and use tipex on sprocket to mark its position to cam and timing chain. Undo the exhaust 5 numbered cam caps undo the 10 bolts slowly Ľ turn on each one until loose, Takes 6‐7 turns depending on the position of the cam start from the middle out and undo the bolts one turn each until you have reduced the tension across the cam. Remove the cam caps these must be kept in order and direction in a box rear to front ‘9>8>7>6>5’. This is easy as they are all marked with numbers and little arrows. The cam wants to roll down hill when lifted up for tensioner replacement. It will put a twisting load on the cam chain. I anticipated this and put one of the cam cap bolts back in the lower most aft location. This gave the aft end of the cam something to rest on which kept it from trying to twist the chain. Removing the radiator fans allowed easy access to the lower crank pulley to turn the engine manually so none of the cam lobes were pushing on anything and under no stress. It is important to un torque and re torque the cam cap bolts evenly 1/4 turn at a time. Extra work to get at crack pulley 24 mm 15/16 bolt to turn cams to relieve pressure of valves on cam before it can be undone. Jack up car to remove cooling fans and shroud and unplug main harness Undo the two bolts on the 2nd tensioners and gently lift up the exhaust cam and remove the secondary tensioner. Clean the mating surfaces of the cam caps and tensioners note the small oil hole between the tensioners should be clear. Lift the exhaust cam tom you seen from side of car and install the new secondary tensioner and bolt it down, remove pin release- oil into the hole in the plastic runner to prime it.



On the right bank (Bank A) you have to remove the red safety pin that holds the new tensioner together before you can install it and hold it together as you place it.On the left bank (Bank B) you can leave the red pin in place as you installed, then remove it. Pore a little oil on the exhaust cam, keep mating surfaces clean and bolt the 5 exhaust cam caps and few turns at a time. The torque values for the tensioners and cam caps are 10-14 Nm (7.4-10.3 ft-lb). and 10-11 nm respectively. This isn’t very much. Rest of replacement is pretty much straight forward, use a new gasket and blue sealant on cover and torque carefully 14 bolts inside out to 9-11 Nm in order


Refit the clips that secure the engine harness to the valve covers, 9) Refit sockets on the VVT solenoids Replace sparkplugs, air intake, new air filter, Start engine and let it run till hot, check for leaks around the cam cover. Expect some smells as any cleaning fluids spilt oil are burnt of. After 10miles driving should be all good.
To do lower chains this is far more extensive where Main headache is Crank damper (pulley) removal which is often tight to undo bolt requires a special tool to remove the existing lower pulley and a quality 24mm socket, and 3 or 4 feet breaker bar as it is tightened to 275ftlb/365nm, the flywheel will need to be locked. One
method lock pulley using an old timing belt round pulley twisted with a and a bar or make a bar to fit the pulley has 2 X 8mm tapped holes or use a large boss to hold the crank still whilst undoing the crank pulley bolt and hit the boss in the middle and with a hide mallet to release off its tapper.
 

Last edited by KenXJ; 06-29-2014 at 08:15 AM.
  #6  
Old 06-28-2014 | 05:21 PM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
Default



Passengers side = Bank B = LS in UK

1/ Disconnect battery

Drain coolant, remove coolant cap, on the passenger side of the radiator, bottom right there is a plastic bung that has a cross head. You need to jack the car up to get to it. I used a very large washer to undo plastic bung
from a ľ inch nut/bolt (note this size bolt also fits the bleed cap in the supercharger).
2/ Remove the three clips on the 3 small pipes that connect to the coolant reservoir.
The clips are removed by squeezing the clip together the use a very small screw driver to leaver them up. They should pop open. Lift up the coolant reservoir and disconnect the pipe underneath. Remove the little wire clip from the electrical connector under the reservoir and remove connector. Remove coolant reservoir.
3/ Remove air breather pipe from cam cover top left. You squeeze it from the sides and pull gently.
Remove the dip stick nut and gently pull the dip stick tube up an inch or so. Tie wrap the oil dip stick out of the way. As this pipe joint can be troublesome to undo lower bolts holding it in place unless you are lucky enough to be able to raise tube, one method is to cut a nick with a small hacksaw in bracket to the hole and prise away from cover leaving the lower bolt inplace.
4/ Now repeat what you did on the drivers side. :-
2/ Remove the coil cover 8 little bolts. Then lift of plastic cover. Undo 4 coils 2 bolts each gently release coils. If the rubber tubes get stuck on top of the spark plugs just spray WD40 into the stuck bung then use long nose pliers to wiggle them off. I recommend you change your spark plugs if they are near 50K use. Check for any oil in the spark plug wells should be clean. Lift the coils out and lay them over the throttle body.
3/ Loosen the 14 bolts that hold the cam cover in place start from the outside in. Then remove the camcover.
4/ Take a cable tie and secure the secondary chain to the exhaust sprocket (exhaust cam is the lower one) via the holes in the sprocket. The secondary tensioners red for 1st generation is held in place by two bolts. The new tensioner is metal and should come with two new bolts that are larger heads that the originals.
5/ Undo the exhaust cam caps (5 of them) start from the middle out and undo the bolts one turn each until you have reduced the tension across the cam. Takes 6‐7 turns depending on the position of the cam. Remove the cam caps these must be kept in order and direction. This is easy as they are all marked with numbers and little arrows.
6/ Undo the two bolts on the 2nd tensioners.
7/ Gently lift up the exhaust cam and remove the secondary tensioner.
8/ Clean the mating surfaces of the cam caps and tensioners note the small hole between the tensioners bolt holes this is the oil hole so don’t block it.
9/ Lift the exhaust cam and install the new secondary tensioner. Bolt it down and remove the release pin from the tensioner. Pore a little engine oil into the hole in the plastic runner to prime it.
10/ Pore a little oil on the exhaust cam but keep mating surfaces clean. Bolt the 5 exhaust cam caps in place. Tension from the inside out a few turns at a time.
11/ Torque the cam bolts and secondary tensioner down. Think the correct torque is 10-11Nm.

Remove cable tie
12/ Clean and replace the cam cover use a new gasket. I used the blue gasket seal, take your time as it’s a bit fiddly and clean all parts as you go. Torque the 14 bolts from the inside out.
Torque the bolts (8mm) to 9-11 Nm in the order in the image given later below
Refit the clips that secure the engine harness to the valve covers, 9) Refit sockets on the VVT solenoids
13/ Replace sparkplug (if you are changing them), air intake, new air filter if needed.
Remember to check the coolant level after you have completed the job and run the car. I found . Didn’t need to bleed the supercharger as we didn’t empty this system of coolant but you may just want to check this. After you have replaced the coolant and coolant reservoir cap undo the supercharger bleed cap (3/4 inch inset bolt on top of super charger) turn ignition on and top up supercharger bleed hole until full. Done
14/ Start engine and let it run till hot, check for leaks around the cam cover. Expect some smells as any cleaning fluids spilt oil are burnt of. After 10miles driving should be all good.

That’s it simple. Just make sure you go slow and clean as you go.


 

Last edited by KenXJ; 06-29-2014 at 08:21 AM.
  #7  
Old 06-28-2014 | 05:42 PM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
  #8  
Old 06-29-2014 | 08:51 AM
KenXJ's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: London UK
Default xj8 tool dimensions

Make your own timing chain xj8 tool dimensions attached for further information.
 
Attached Files
The following users liked this post:
sparkenzap (06-29-2014)
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Sprayall
S-Type / S type R Supercharged V8 ( X200 )
13
05-30-2021 08:13 AM
PMKimpton
X-Type ( X400 )
15
08-03-2019 08:22 PM
tberg
XK / XKR ( X150 )
15
09-07-2015 07:32 AM
Sprayall
New Member Area - Intro a MUST
8
09-03-2015 07:49 PM
XFR_Gold
XF and XFR ( X250 )
2
09-02-2015 12:24 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Quick Reply: XJ8 Timing tensioners and their design



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.