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79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help

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  #21  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyporting
At this point im gonna run some looped wires from what I kjow has 12v constant and key on to the relay that has the issue to see if I can get it to start. I would assume this will work

Sure.

Unplug the relay, identify the cavity in the connector that goes to the brown/slate wire, and use a jump wire to the "+" battery post


Cheers
DD
 
  #22  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:09 PM
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I narrowed it down to tge red diode pack is bad. The constant 12v is there but there is no switched 12v w ignition on to the center white wire. I jumpered the white wire on the diode to another switched 12v and there is now power to the afm and it fired and runs.

Couple things.
The air pump is locked up. Can I just delete the air pump for the air injection and cap the main line that feeds the air injection rail?

Car will run and idle but wont always fire up once its turned off.

I didnt drive it yet as it has no brakes from an empty brake reservoir
 
  #23  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyporting
I narrowed it down to tge red diode pack is bad. The constant 12v is there but there is no switched 12v w ignition on to the center white wire. I jumpered the white wire on the diode to another switched 12v and there is now power to the afm and it fired and runs.


Great news !

But something weird is afoot here. The red diode pack shouldn't have contant (key "off") 12v supply.

What wire colors do you have at the diode pack?



Couple things.
The air pump is locked up. Can I just delete the air pump for the air injection and cap the main line that feeds the air injection rail?

Yes, but keep the check valve in place



Cheers
DD
 
  #24  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug
Great news !

But something weird is afoot here. The red diode pack shouldn't have contant (key "off") 12v supply.

What wire colors do you have at the diode pack?






Yes, but keep the check valve in place



Cheers
DD
Awesome about the air pump. I dont need to cap the injection rail and lines? Or justcap the onw side of the check valve?

And maybe im wrong maybe its only switched 12v on the diode. Ill wrote down the wore colors tomorrow. But one thing is for sure the center white wire isnt getting power and it should.

Man this thing has been a pain and a real puzzle but dang happy its this close
 
  #25  
Old 12-14-2013, 06:33 PM
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New problem.
Car idled for a bit then died.

Will start but will loose power to fuel pump after 5 seconds.

Ran a switched 12v to the pump from the inertia switch and tried again. No loss of 12v now but car still dies after 5 seconds and will not start if you give any throttle while trying to start.


Ideas?

I have traced power in and out of all relays and the diode pack all shows correct as it should but car will not stay running, could it be the afm is bad? Even though it transfers power from the gray/slate wire to the pink/blue wire back to the diode?

Ideas?
 
  #26  
Old 12-15-2013, 02:57 PM
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Have you coupled a bulb up to the fuel pump contacts to see if the bulb stays alight after starting ? If it doesn't it sounds like the two tiny contacts in the AFM are playing up. When you start, these are bypassed but when the engine starts these two little contacts keep the fuel pump relay switched.

Read this article, but in particular Page 3, "Airflow meter problems"

Fuel injection and the Jaguar XJ6 4.2 Series 3 / AJ6 Engineering
 
  #27  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:59 PM
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Yes I have verified the pumps loses 12v with a multi meter. But the problem persists even with a constant 12v ran to pump.

But I will look at the article as I assume the problem would persist even w constant 12v
 
  #28  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:04 PM
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After reading the article the fuel pump problem appears to be the pin 36 ans pin 39 issue.
I will pry it apart shortly
 
  #29  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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Update:
Pulled the cover off.
Pin 36 and 39 were making connection once flap was open. But the light coiled spring (the small one) was not being contacted by the main clocking wheel. Pushed it down

Reinstalled in the car.
It fired right up and idled great.
Pulled it out of the garage and made it about a block down and the car died and would barely start but wantwd to die right away again.
Lifted hood only to find the afm wasnt plugged in. Let it cool for a bit and it started and ran enough to make it back to the garage.
Then wouldn't pull in as it would die in gear but would start great and rev great in neutral but would sputter and pop once put in gear with a load.

Again this was all only possible with the afm unplugged.

Gonna scan that article again. But ideas?
 
  #30  
Old 12-15-2013, 05:05 PM
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pics of the AFM:

With the flap closed

With the flap open

How the clock wheel was when opened, is this the correct tooth?

How the spring was when I opened it

Reset

 
Attached Thumbnails 79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1521640_683703512175_870806023_n.jpg   79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1468707_683703507185_733757583_n.jpg   79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1521621_683703502195_1597220483_n.jpg   79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1471883_683703691815_1836423742_n.jpg   79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1517595_683703577045_785060613_n.jpg  

79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-1470195_683703587025_2061005848_n.jpg   79 XJ6 VP no start issue. Please help-995028_683703592015_609896536_n.jpg  
  #31  
Old 12-16-2013, 05:30 PM
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Update.
The car will start and run as long as I want if I manually move the flap in the afm. The slider wants to be at about 10:30 on a clock for it to stsrt snd run. Anything over or under that and it either wont stsrt st all or takes several tries to start. But once my dash coolant temp gauge hit about 70 degrees the car died. And it was idling at 1500rpm with the flap in the afm held at the one spot it liked so the car would stay running.

I also pulled the hose on the auxiliary air valve and at room temp of about 45-50 degrees the sloder was about 2/3 shut. The slider did have good spring and I could move it easily with a screw driver.
Shouldn't the aav be completely open at room temp?

I wonder if I am having a problem with both the aav and the afm?

Thoughts?
 
  #32  
Old 12-16-2013, 05:49 PM
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I'll do some mulling but I'm pretty well stumped.

The AAV opens when cold and closes *almost* all the way when hot. Room temp would be cold, I reckon....and I honestly am not sure if it's supposed to open *all* the way.

Cheers
DD
 
  #33  
Old 12-16-2013, 07:09 PM
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Just plain a bad afm?
 
  #34  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:11 AM
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With help from Paul novak I was able to drive the car for
5 miles yesterday. I put a known good afm into the car and
with a little cranking the car fired and ran. In park the
car idles at 2k rpm.
I had previously fiddled with the throttle stop so I will
check the gap and set to .002 today.
The car idled low in neutral and drive so I'll look into
it more.

car did die after about 20 min of driving. Car acted like
it ran out of gas (only one tank shows fuel level, but car
only wants to run on the tank that doesn't show fuel
level) I am pretty sure the previous owner placed the tank
switch in the wrong spot as it is after the t fitting in
the tank lines so it shuts off all fuel to the pump.

I left the car for 20 - 30 min and got more gas But the
car fired right up without putting any gas in and drove
another mile home. I am not sure what caused it to die but
it would not start at all.

but the afm solved my no start problems
 
  #35  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyporting
but the afm solved my no start problems

YAY!


Cheers
DD
 
  #36  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyporting
In park the
car idles at 2k rpm.
I had previously fiddled with the throttle stop so I will
check the gap and set to .002 today.


That's a good place to begin. After that, the actual idle speed adjustment screw. After that, possibly a stuck-open AAV


[
I am pretty sure the previous owner placed the tank
switch


Do you mean the 'Changeover solenoid'? The electric part with three fuel hoses attached?
(one hose from the left tank, one hose from the right tank, and one hose to the fuel pump)



in the wrong spot as it is after the t fitting in
the tank lines so it shuts off all fuel to the pump.

Not quite sure what you mean.

"T fitting"?

Sounds like something that has been added on. The changeover valve is, in essence, the "tee fitting" in the system, in the form of a selector valve. Are you saying there's another tee fitting?

Cheers
DD
 
  #37  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:46 PM
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Are the fuel tanks nice and clean ?

There is a brass plug at the tank bottom, accessed via a hole in the 1/4 panel. There may be a plug barring access, in which case prise it out. Remove most of the fuel via a decent syphon into jerry cans if you can, as safety with petrol needs to be paramount. Removal of the large plug, (not the smaller one in the middle), will show it has a gauze filter attached. Clean this, and also flush the tank out with a little bit of petrol or maybe cellulose thinners. If there is a lot of crud, this is likely blocking the filter and stopping the pump drawing fuel.
 
  #38  
Old 01-12-2014, 05:55 PM
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I was told the tanks had been off and cleaned. They appear newer. But who knows, but the system has been tampered with. I need to find a picture of a factory setup so I can see how far off mine is.

reset the tb gap it was considerably off. Idles at about 1k rpm now when cold.
 
  #39  
Old 01-18-2014, 07:30 PM
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Just needed to reroute how the fuel lines ran to the stock tank switch and that fixed my problem of it only running on the one tank.

Took the car for a drive again and it ran good for about 20 min and then began to not like to go about 2k rpm and would sputter going up a hill.
Fuel pump sounded noticeably weaker. So I assume it's not getting full voltage and losing fuel pressure or the pump is getting hot.

I also let the car idle the other day for an hour and it faltered and died at about 45min in but the started right up and idled for over 15 min. So not sure exactly what's going on but thought I would update.

This car certainly hasn't liked sitting for as long as it did
 
  #40  
Old 01-19-2014, 08:13 AM
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I think you really do need to check the tank filters for blockages.

Your symptoms are almost identical to what I had when I had the incorrect rubber fuel return pipes supplied, and the petrol dissolved a lot of rubber that ended up in each tank. Car went OK until enough rubber particles had blocked-up the filters so little fuel was getting through.
 


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