Hi

I guess my first question may upset the purist , sorry about that

* Would you purchase a 74-77 XJC-6/12 that has had an engine conversion or would you only purchase one that has a Jag engine ( I know we are not talking about the same price here) Do you think it really makes a difference in today's market?

and

* Do you think any one of these three models will ever become classics and go up in value? 1987 XJ6 VDP & 1994-95 XJ12 ( not XJS)
I have been thinking about adding one of them to my collection...but it's very hard to find a low mileage one at a fair price.

Terry

 

Personally I'd want a Jag engine in a Jag.



The Coupes are already considered classic by many and prices have been going up very gradually....but seemingly only for exceptional examples.

The Series III cars have not really caught on, nor have the later XJ12 cars...but who knows what the future might bring.

I'd be happy to add any of the three to my collection because I like them. They're not 'investment grade' cars, though, IMHO. I would not buy any on that basis unless you can wait quite a long time

Cheers
DD

 

I also prefer a Jag engine in a Jag. If you must do a "conversion" I would accept a Jaguar AJ6, AJ16, or even better an AJ16 with the supercharger (from the 95 to 97 XJRs) Building the latter is on the bucket list at some point.

The only one that has any chance of rising in value seems to be the Coupe, mainly due to their rarity, and if you have ever driven a proper one, they are pretty fun to drive.

But these cars are meant for driving, not speculating.

The other 2 cars are also great, undervalued cars, and would be great stablemates for your XJS. The 87 VDP in US spec could really do with a little bit more power to comfortably keep up with todays traffic if you were using it as a daily driver (many of us have/do). I wouldn't restrict yourself to only 87........ There's little difference from 83 to 87 (If I remember my own research into Series 3s a while back. I eventually settled on an 84) The 6.0 V12 in the last XJ12s is a great engine and makes the car the definition of a "sleeper" One of those is also on the bucket list.

 

When it comes to coupes rust is key. Most engine conversions can be reversed. Rust can not be reversed with out some major effort, I've seen people pay WAY to much for a rusted out coupe with an original engine and next to nothing for a solid convert. That's backward in my opinion. Once these cars rust, they can sag and when that happens panel fit becomes an issue and it's very difficult to reverse. They also tend to rust in hidden structural areas that are nearly impossible to repair with out deconstruction.

1987 VDP is a nice car and should experience a modest increase in value over time. It's a novitly car with somewhat limited production and also limited interest. Since VDP is basically a seat package...condition is everything in this case. I doubt the increase in value will offset the maintenance, repairs and insurance costs over time.

The late Xj12 are also a novelty car and only the most original and low mileage examples will be worth something to someone, someday.

There is one out there that was purchased new, the owner perished soon after purchase and the family left it in the garage. That car will be worth something to someone. The rest have little or no value because this was the time Lexus came on to the luxury car scene and to compete most Luxury cars got too practical, too soft and somewhat numb.

Generally speaking coupes always will be more valuable than sedans. They look better and embody the free spirited, 'I'm going somewhere in style attitude' that car lovers cherish.

 

@icsamerica

Great point about rust on the coupes. There are some nasty ones out there. When we bought our non-running, locked away for 20 years XJ12C last winter, the pragmatic thought was that even if the original V12 in it was dead, it would be "relatively" easy to swap in the drivetrain from an XJS, worstcase. I bought the car like that because to me it was worth the risk to get a good, straight, relatively rust free body (I think they were rusting as they went down the production line, so finding one with no rust seems a tall order to me)

As per the build thread on this forum, the V12 fired back into life in January and has been getting better and better ever since (thankfully) There is "something" about the Coupes that myself and other forum members have mulled over, but no solid conclusions reached. I know that out of all my cars (I am very lucky to have some nice ones) the Coupe gets the most attention by far.

 

If Nix, when I first saw her, had still had the original XK engine under the hood, she would Never have come to live under this roof. She came to live with me in Large part because of the well-understood, easily repaired, well done 350/700R4 conversion.

In this part of the world the XK engine had/has a Terrible reputation, and I've learned in this and other forums, "Purists" aside (no offense intended), that a large part of that reputation is well deserved.

While they run, they run fine. But then there's the specter of a dropped valve seat, the blown head gasket between 5 and 6, and best of all, the head bolts through the water jacket!

I didn't get this car with the idea of an investment value, I think cars are a Terrible investment in any situation, I got it to Drive! I intend driving it into the ground, so to speak, driving the wheels off, and enjoying every single moment behind the wheel.

However, everyone has their preferences, that's what Choice is all about, and those are mine.
(';')

 

My 83 came with 4.2 power. I liked it that way. Different to me.
vive la diference!!!!


Had it continued to run, I would have been pleased. Adequate, barely, power. The 2.88 rear ratio made up in a way for the missing OD!!!


Then, it "blew up". Was running nice, AC doing well. Instruments failed me. I still don't knw where the coolant went???


Home on a flat bed.


Research and deliberation followed. Decided!!! A watchword for me.
Conversion vs rebuild the engine. The former won out. Car will return to the road, not became parts at Jaguar Heaven.


A Kirkegaardian leap. Carbs to FI. Electrics + electronics.


It wasn't easy or cheap. Took from 2001 to 2006 to get a sorted
out and SMOG passed car.


But, it sure does run nice. I learned a lot. Serves me well.


Side bar: At times, it exhibits rattling tin. Yesterday, it was much quieter. It may be in the bonnet. What appears to be latched
on both sides may not always be true!!!


English elegance with an Italian flair and American power. Not bad, huh???


Carl

 

I've no issues with a proper conversion compared with a good original car!!


Carl

 

Guys, great response!
Yes,the rust is an issue on those Coupe. I just missed a nice 87VDP this morning with 45000 miles.
it was for sale on DL for over a month I was hesitating because it needed a new headliner and the owner did not have a great service record. Sold for $ 3500
I also like a 2002XJR100 and have looked at a few but I'm not sure they will ever become classics and go up in value .I'm looking for a car I can enjoy and drive but that will not worth 5 dollars in a few years knowing that I paid a lot for it.

 

I would say buying just about any car as an "investment" is a bad idea. More times than not, I would think the servicing, storage, insurance, etc would make most a poor decision unless you happen to pick that one car that really takes off.

Realistically though, I think the two cars mentioned, the 87 Vanden Plas or the 94/95 XJ12 are at rock bottom in their depreciation cycles. There are plenty listed for good money, but I have my doubts that they ever achieve those asking prices. The good news is that an old well kept car in that $5K to $10K range will likely always bring that kind of money if you properly maintain. As for being the next hot commodity, I just have my doubts. No matter how much I like sedans, they never seem to achieve the status and appreciation of coupes/converts.

On a side note, I remember years ago being in a 94 XJ12. That motor really turned the XJ40 into a silky smooth rocket ship!

 

Many people feel that way but i routinly make small profits buying fixing and selling on. You have to buy right though and add value. Like buying a non running car and fixing it.
Or being the quick cash and then wait for the right buyer. There is value in that.

New cars are a bad investment. Used
Cars can be a good investment. You have to buy them right though. I bought a low mileage 2007 Escalade when gas was $4.50 a gallon for 25k. Its worth nearly the same money today and there is no price that can be put on the safe and comfortable tranportation of my family of 7.

You can often buy a very serviceable used car for the price of sales tax on a new car.

When it comes to value and price there is also intrinsic value or incidental value. A 2500$ project jag sold for a loss isnt necesarilly a loss if it brought you joy and / or kept you out of the bar for a year. The trick is to know when you are in over your head and punt if you are. Case in point...right now im in possesion of a porsche 928 with a paperwork snafu on the title...im into it for 750.00 but wasted lots of time with burocricy...may have to punt this one away for parts.

 

A few years ago I bought a 1971 Corvette LS5 ( 454 cu ) ALL matching numbers with 54k miles for $11K
Spent $2000 fixing a few things ,mostly cosmetic and cleaning the engine bay (changing the hoses, repainting the manifold etc ) 15 years later its worth 45k and I love it
Got a 68 Firebird convertible for $3500 a few years back .Had it repainted worth about 30 K .
I guess it depends on what you are looking for .
Buying a new car is not a good investment unless you keep it for 20 years.

 

Right.

The key here, and I think you'll agree, is to put a cap on your "fix it" budget and be selective where you spend it.

If it's a hobby car...one that you enjoy spending money on and want everything to be "just so".... then soon enough you'll have dumped way more into the car than it is worth. You've "added" lots of money and personal satisfaction....but you haven't added *value*.

Cheers
DD

 

Yeah, two definite paths.


1. Buy low, fix cheap, sell high. Fliping as in houses.


2. Buy the car one wants. The best one the budget will allow.
Minor flaws OK. fix, improve and enjoy. Don't seat costs, (to a degree) or values. If it isn't for sale, so what.


My cars fit cat 2. Values unknown to me. Not for sale, so....


Carl

 

No one has mentioned the late Series III V12 cars (say 88 to 92, especially the 92) - that glorious V12 engine in that beautiful body. Superb. Not sold in the US but importing a Canadian car is easy.

 

I looked into the 95-96 XJ12 because I saw one local for sale, cheap. I have also seen others for sale, rock bottom prices.

I think the reason for this was the OBD2 non-compliance problem. Jaguar settled and had to offer a 14 year warranty on them (IIRC). Once that warranty was up, prices collapsed.

So, I doubt that they'll ever recover pricing or appreciate. I think the OBD2 problem will always be its albatross. A nice one would be a fun driver, but not an investment.

Padre

 

I actually did find a late Series III V12 cars 92 with a V12,
the car has 150k miles, and the seller wants close to 17 K for it.
I think it's overpriced but I could be wrong.
Anyway that's over my budget anyway

 

Terry: you are aware that only 100 1992 V12 VDP cars were built, and that each one is numbered individually ? I know of one that might be for sale if you want to send me a pm.

 

I'd buy an XJC with a chevy motor in a heartbeat ...if it wasn't rusty and it was well sorted.

None of those cars are going to be investment cars in most cases. Always the chance you could fix and flip one for a few bucks I guess but you'd do a lot better on a million other cheap cars.