Revised info:

I *did* have to remove the cat convertor to *install the new bolt*.

It dawns on me that since I cut the old fulcrum bolt it was obviously shorter....and as a result the cat convertor didn't have to be removed to drive the bolt out.

Duh Doug

Cheers
DD

 

Sneal:

Ditto on the spring caveat. I think most of those tilt up doors have given way to the rollups. Good move!!!

I do recall on becoming adrift when our garage was empty. Wow what a noise. Luckily no one in the garage and by a miracle it damaged nothing!! The replacement springs I bought had a cable to secure them in care of breakage or the securing point coming adrift. Smart. It took a big bar and care in installing the replacements. The only access was with the door closed! that meant the spring had to be extended. to install.

I recall seeing one of the reality shows about catapults and trebuchets. A lower class included units using banks of these for the energy storage.

Another depicted a family building a moderate sized trebuchet. One member was killed. I am not sure if garage door springs provided the energy and whether or not they were the cause of the disaster. Oddly, they finished and used it. I'd burned the wretched thing.

And one was listed on Craigs list. Odd, but I didn't note what system was used for the energy storage.

And car springs are even storing more energy in the compressed mode.

Extra Caveat, to be sure.

Carl

 

Aha!
Couldn't imagine one of those huge, clunky things small enough to let that bolt slide past without some argument :-)

Andrew.

 

This thread is too valuable to let it slide into obscurity. Should be a sticky, or at least linked to in the tech sticky.

I've been replacing all the bushings in my front end this week. Managed to get through them all, except the removal the lower fulcrum bolt on the driver's side (LH). Simply does not want to budge. I think I've come up with a simple idea that may work better. Tonight I'm going to try using a small tube/pipe over the threaded end to pound on. Might just weld a small plate on the end of the pipe for extra oomph; like a fence-post pounder. Any other/better ideas? Engine is out, so thankfully no cat to contend with.

I've already put the rest back together and was going to just leave those lower bushings "as is", but it's eating at me...(like a left parenthesis that has no right. Ball joints are still original, they are in great shape, but the rubber boots are shot. Might try to use the old boots from the steering rack, or some other method to protect them from the gravel dust on the road I live on.

Also, I've always felt that the front end is a bit too "proud". Or, maybe the rear is too low? See signature picture below. Are any normal washers acceptable for lowering between the spring pan & lower A-frame/wishbone? I have to pick up longer bolts today to finish them, 1" long as opposed to 3/4" should be adequate. Just want to know if I need a better grade of washer before proceeding; I'm only putting in two washers at each bolt to start with.

Are you with me still, or are you still bothered by that absent right parenthesis? ) There, happy now?

 

You've seen how I write, what do you think?
(';')

 

After about 15k of driving on the new front end suspension parts I have developed a small issue of only getting to -1 deg of camber during an alignment. This may be attributed to worn lower control arm bushings which I did not replace during the initial thread post. Just an FYI for those that have read this. The tire wear is very minimal and at the present time does not stop me from driving the car.

 

I have a question for you all on this subject. At what point in the vehicles life does this make sense? The reason I ask is that the OP's (sneal46) vehicle is shown to have 59,000 miles. My '87 has 68,000 on it and drives (as far as I can tell, or maybe used to) perfectly. Do the bushings/ball joints wear out as a factor of time or mileage?
I did the front end on my early 70's Corvette and those bushings wore out with age not so much miles. The basically dried out and began to crack. Do the Jag bushings age the same way?
Thanks for any input.

 

At what point you throw in the towel and dump the vehicle depends on what it means to you and what you're prepared to spend, not only money but also time and effort. That point varies wildly with the individual. That's why some people spend Years and Thou$and$ restoring a 50 or 60 year old car and others trade them in every 2 years. Different strokes and all that.

Bushings and seals are perishable, made of rubber or plastic, and deteriorate whether or not they're on the road. In fact some say they last longer with use than with storage. Oxygen and UV are the culprits, doing a number at the molecular level with such compounds, causing them to virtually crumble after time although seldom used. New Old Stock of these parts only works if they've been sealed against air in plastic and against light in an opaque box. Otherwise they simply rot on the shelves.

It's also those perishable bits in ball joints, the boots and seals, that cause their demise whether they're used or not. Add to that the grease dries out and hardens with disuse so it can't protect the metal from the aforementioned oxygen, which along with humidity = Rust.

I have a car with about 330K miles on it and it's no longer of interest to me to fix what all is wrong with it, even though parts are still readily available, the body is straight and most everything still works. My Jaguar shows 77K miles and change on the clock, but after 38 years I can't imagine it hasn't gone around at least once. Even so, I'm still happy to put $$$, time and effort into keeping it well sorted.

No one can tell you when it's time to quit but you.
(';')

 

In my case it was a matter of drivability. The car was stored for 15 years and after sitting that long the front end suspension was in bad shape due to age and non-use. Driving the car was like trying to steer a wagon down a steep hill. Part were $200 and labor was free as a DIY project. The change was dramatic after new ball joints were installed.

 

LnrB,
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my question. I wasn't trying to determine at what point do I "throw in towel and dump car", I was trying to determine what is the determining factor in the life of the bushings, as in miles or time.
Example. Ferrari (308's) used a pressed in bearing type bushing that would last forever in years, but only good for 20,000 miles. How soon you got to that 20k miles, (years, decades, centuries) made no difference to the life of the bushings. At 20k, time to replace.
The bushings on my Corvette (and probably Jag) seem to be the exact opposite. Their life seems to be in years, not number of miles.

Now I am at some point going to have to replace the bushings in my car so I was following this thread with some interest. I don't believe it will be in the immediate future, but eventually it will happen, when needed. Again, what caught my eye was the (only) 59k miles on OP's car and him doing replacement with measureable/noticeable improvements afterward. My '87, with 68k, similar to the OP's, has been stored over the last 8 years with car only getting 20 miles/year in that time frame when stored. I just brought the car out for regular use again this summer. New 16 inch lattice's and P7's. Had my longtime Jag mechanic do an alignment, but one was not needed. He also gave me the "why are you having me inspect/look at this car again, everything on the front end of this car is tight as new, and you know that". He was being complimentary/nice when saying so. So I was kinda confused that the OP's car, being only one year older than mine but with 9k fewer miles, would display bushing that are shot and in dire need of replacement, whereas mine appear new. I found that odd.

With that being said, how long (in either years or miles, with years I believe to be the more important factor) do the Jag bushings usually last?

Doug, you just did a front end. How many miles on that car? What year car?

Thanks. Hope I didn't de-rail this thread too badly.

 

IMHO....

Jaguar has always been very concerned about NVH --Noise, Vibration, Harshness--and uses bushings designed for maximum NVH reduction, not maximum life. Thus we generally spend more time replacing bushings than many other owners do.

Still, even if we're not expecting long life, operating conditions and environment factor in. For just one example my XJR has 164k miles and, near as I can tell from visual inspection, all the bushings are fine...or at least not worn to the point where replacment is outright mandatory. I attribute this to the fact that 80% of the miles have been accumulated on the *smooth interstate highways*. Plus, the environment up here in the PNW is decidedly non-arrid. That might help as well.

Also IMHO some bushings are probably replaced needlessly just because there is some slight cracking visible on the exposed ends. But, as often as not, you'll remove those busings and find that they were actually still in good operating condition where it mattered.

Rather than replacements based on time/mileage (like a timing belt or oil changes) on out old Jags the test/inspection/standard for bushings is failure to hold the suspension component firmly in position---the correct position. Generally it's simply a matter if looking for concentricity... and absence of free play/clunking. The former can be hard to see in some cases, though, simply because your view is obstructed by the suspension parts themselves. Large, long pry bars can be useful to detect bushings that are worn enough to clunk.

I'll add that a good-as-new bushing is generally easy to spot. And an absolutely-shot bushing is generally easy to spot. What's difficult is identifying one that might be 'just' sub-par. And it's also hard to gauge the detrimental results of having a whole suspension-full of bushings that are degraded somewhat... but perhaps not quite to the point of mandatory replacement.

Some bushings are seriously a *royal pain in the *** to replace* . Lower control arm bushings in our old Jags, for example. In some cases a mechanic might avoid that unpleasantness for as long as possible. This might be done by telling the customer what he wants to hear--- "Everything looks good"

Ramble switch turned 'off'

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks Doug, you're the man...again!
I don't think it was a matter of my mechanic not wanting to deal with bushings. When car was up on lift to put on tires, we looked over the suspension before doing/checking the alignment. He pushed/pulled/pried and found everything to be, in his words, "tip-top". He's kinda a "tip-top" sort of dude. A little "odd", but does fine work.

 

You're right, Dale, I completely misunderstood your question. I apologize for any misdirection.
(';')

 

No worries!!!

 

The only bushings on these cars that can be problematic to check are the lower wishbone bushes at the front of the car. These are of the Silentbloc type and the spring pressure is so great, it is difficult to detect they are worn without long levers, and even then a false impression may be given. Of course with the spring removed, checking is easy, but just taking these off is a real PITA. In contrast the upper "Slipflex" bushes are easy to check and replace.

 

I just replaced the upper A arm bushings, the upper and lower ball joints and the shock absorbers on the front end of my 1975 XJ6C this weekend. As indicated above this IS a job you can do without too much trouble and well worth it. My lower ball joints were the original multipiece affair and yes taking out the upper seat was a bit of a PITA. One side came out fairly easily with a few raps to the top and it came out the bottom. The second I had to take a dremel with a cutting wheel to cut through it, then bang it in, the down and out. I never took off the steering ball joints or the brake lines. I used another jack stand to support the assembly. And used zip ties to hold in place while trying to take out the lower ball joints (in lue of a second pair of hands). Certainly doable. The only other caviat was the rear upper A arms had to have the rear bushing taken off in place in order to force it out and around the flexible brake line housing. They didn't leave much room there. But, again, doable. Yes the first side took longer than the second, but not much. It's just the second side was now familiar.

PS - the front end feels tighter, doesn't wander, and the little bit of rattling I heard from the right side is gone. Well worth the job! One more dreaded job behind me. The anticipation is worse than the job itself.