When I purchased this lovely car I was under the impression that the BAR sticker on the door would allow me to smog and be on my way. Sadly I never bothered to read the fine print and the sticker indicates a 5.0l 4bbl carb lump. What is actually in the engine bay is a 1992 Camaro 5.7l TPI. Needless to say I didn't get too far with my local smog shop so I made an appointment with the referee. With a new catalytic converter the car passed the sniffer test with flying colors but the ref says the ramshorn exhaust headers never left the factory on a 1992 5.7l TPI. He says the only way I'm going to get a new BAR sticker is if I install the original headers AND position the catalytic converter underneath the passenger seat; just like the 1992 Camaro.

Yay bureaucracy!

So I'm appealing his decision and preparing for the worst. Does anyone have any experience putting the original headers into a conversion? On the passenger side I can probably make it work (if I can clear the starter) but I'm going to have to reroute the steering column in order to get the OEM header to work on the drivers side. I'm also searching for CARB approved aftermarket headers that might give me a fighting chance. Ideas?

-b

 

sadly, I can only offer sympathy, no answers. Where, exactly, is that 1400degree catalyst going to exist between the bottom of the car and the tarmac, if it has to be "under the passenger seat"? I hope you can find some compassion with the referee.

 

Logic is a tough sell with this agency. There used to be a "spirit" of the law attitude but now they just keep the blinders on real tight. I'll frankenstein a system together that will probably need to be towed to and from my appointment with satan; then I'll re-install the current setup once I've got my approval. No smog tech on the planet will ever be interested in catalyst placement or header style so long as they're stamped GM. It's just going to be a rough road to get there.

 

Im very interested in your case. I have a 76 xj6c. Never registered in 35 years. Running a chevy 350 out of a 89 z28. Carb, rams horns, of course, what else fits, dual exhaust, cat backs set up.
Am i screwed? Where are located and which referee did you see?
Im in LA

 

I'm in Los Angeles. My first appointment was at Fullerton College and the second at Pierce College. California Automotive Repair Smog Check Referee Program is a nonprofit organization sponsored by the Foundation for California Community Colleges. There will always be a few students looking over your car with the ref.

You can claim the engine is from a Corvette, Firebird, Camaro or any vehicle with a small block. They'll check the block number to date the engine or hook up a scanner to the ECM if you've got one (I do). Then they'll spend the next 90 minutes arguing with each other while they attempt to become experts on the emissions equipment of your particular engine. Lots of Google action. They insisted that I needed THREE catalytic converters because it was a Corvette engine. I finally had to take a magnet to the heads to show them that they were steel, not aluminum like the 'Vette heads. Camaro only needs one cat. You're on trial by a team that knows only what they just Googled five minutes before.

The last 30 minutes they will begin to formulate what is wrong. They have to send you away with something in writing. Other than the headers my issues were laughable. The ref couldn't figure out how to check the timing. He couldn't find the idle air control solenoid. He couldn't figure out how to check the park / neutral switch with his scanner. He couldn't find the EVAP cannister.

They run the car on the dyno for the sniffer test. My numbers were stellar due to the fresh tune up and brand new cat. Plus I had tested and replaced all of my smog / EGR solenoids. Bring receipts.

Unless you can prove that the ramshorn's were available on that particular engine in a Z28 the year it was manufactured you're probably in for a bit of work. I think they were available in the Corvette...now all you need to do is fit THREE cats under the Jag in the same approximate position as on the Corvette and you're done.

 

Thanks for the info. I think corvettes had the rams until 1980. But they will know the engine was later than that.
Arrrrrrg

 

Feel sorry for you guys with all this game playing. They seem focussed on process and exercising petty power than keep the air clean. Ive only lived in one country with these sorts of emission controls and all they did was note engine capacity and measure for better than a specified emission level for that capacity. If you didnt make it, the grumpy tester just said **** off and fix it. Dont care how, just fix it.

 

I thought I had it tough in NZ back in the 80's when I took a Blueflame(straight 6) engine out of my 40's Chev and threw in a BB 454, they sent me off to get bigger engine mounts made up because the ones my Dad made looked a bit flimsy.
It came out of wrecked 1970 corvette, should have rebuilt the corvette in hindsight.

 

Sounds horrendous! Can't understand the logic of it all.

Might be easier to covert it back to a Jaguar engine! Being an XJC it may not be that bad an idea from a value point of view as well.

 

It is



For decades the Los Angeles area had notoriously dirty air. I remember it vividly. Emission compliance started fairly benignly... and logically.... in the 60s. Good intentions and all that.

This eventually blossomed into a monster

I am not prone to jumping on the 'government-is-the-root-of-all-evil' bandwagon but this is a good example, IMHO, of bureaucracy gone mad.

Cheers
DD

 

Ouch,


I had my adventures with getting the BAR sticker for my lump. Yup, at a Community college. The ref was a bit skeptical about my car. but, also abashed that his big scanner could not read data from my PCM. Had to back down on a couple of things. Like insisting that the AC work through the PCM as it did in the donor car. And a wheel speed sensor as well? Nope, his supervisor saved us. Nothing to do with emmisions.


My cars cats are way back behind the transmission. Muffler guy and I figured cat heat and transmissions not compatible. But, the ref could've been fussy and insisted they be much further upstream, right off the manifold!!


An, I do have ram horns. I created pipes to look GM to feed them with air. Not the big single feed to each manifold.


My Cadillac factory manual proved true dual pipes came on the donor car. I escaped the H pipe, my car has one.


And, my scanner provided a data stream that suited him. Although my NS isn't via PCM. It was in place and functional


The Check engine light, courtesy Bob Loftus impressed him.


As to the Ram horns, a bit of research might reveal a CARB approval.


Radical. Take it back to a four barrel to match the Bar sticker. But, yuk, you would have to do that nonsense every two years.


As far as I know, my engine has no numbers. So, it's ID, an LT1 is visual only!


You think your local assembly person might help??? Spirit of the law, more ways than one to do the clean air thing.


Yeah, I lived and worked in the La area. Eye burning at times.


Good luck.


Carl

 

Good!

Heh heh, throughout life we must often face those pedants who tenaciously glom onto a bit of power via the pages of rulebooks and regulations. Take away those pages and they become very ordinary and powerless.

Fortunately, those with more sense, wisdom, and experience.....usually a bit older and having learned to keep things in the proper perspective....often come to our rescue.

Cheers
DD

 

This morning I got some good advice from a builder who has legally swapped 50+ engines into Jaguars here in California; all with ramshorn manifolds. He told me to contact the regional director. I made the request and got a call back 60 minutes later. The director told me that because there is no other legal manifold that will ever work in this particular swap they had a long standing tradition of approving the use of the ramshorn. The O2 sensor needs to be within a few inches of the manifold and the cat within a foot of the original location of the Camaro cat. I'm good on both counts and then we discussed the slightly insane location of the Camaro cat and he laughed because it's in the same place on his Corvette.

(long sigh of temporary relief)

The soonest appointment I could get was three weeks from now. I sent the e-mail confirmation to the DMV and they're sending me another 30 day temporary operating permit so I can drive the car to the ref instead of towing it. Logic and compassion from two different government agencies in one morning? I'm stupefied.

@La Roca. Perform a complete tune up and oil change. Put in a new cat. Register your car with the DMV. Call 800.622.7733 to make an appointment at the Pierce College referee anytime after mine on May 28th and you'll probably receive an informed reception.

BTW. Hi everyone. I'm new here. Pleased to join the forum.

 

One of the major reasons to have a converted car that is older than 1974 in CA - Smog Exempt.

My first V8 Jag was a '74 383/700R with a carb when it had to pass CA smog... what a PITA as it all depends on the "local thinkers".

 

I once spoke with a CARB rep and he said I could install a V-12 Jaguar engine in an MGB, as long as it had all of the Jaguar smog equipment.
Now that's three times the carbon output of the stock 4 cylinder engine.
Insane to me!
There are very few early Jaguars on the road and many driving few miles, per year.....
They need to be more lax.
In a few more years, we will see these same Jaguars converted to 650Lbs. torque electric drive trains.

 

Welcome to the forum pricebill, I'm glad to see that you have prevailed over the bureaucracy, now you have some time on your hands maybe you can post an intro in the new members section?

 

I am now introduced. (link here)

 

Giovanni:


Yeah, sort of. But, it may be irrelevant. If the MGB is 1974 or earlier, it is SMOG test exempt. So, one is almost free to do anything one pleases. There are EPA regs that apply, but they are toothless.


But, The Jag V12 must be of equal vintage or newer. A decade or so ago, I read of a fellow up the road that installed a Jag 12 in his Corvair. neat as a pin and marvelous engineering.


Now, let's see, electrics. Four fork lift motors. One to a wheel. AWD, yeah. Oh, oh, that battery and charge thing!!


And, I did see a You Tube piece. A Marmon v16 in an early Ford roadster. More engineering and fabrication wizadry. Long bonnet just looked cool. Unfortunately, the Marmon was hidden from view.


Join two SBC's end to end., voila V16!!


Or the guy on "Counting cars". Two supercharged SBF's out in the breeze in an early Ford roadster. Beautiful done, completely streetable.


And, the list goes on.....


Carl

 

I happened on this old thread as I was preparing to do battle with the California Air Resources Board and its minions. I originally had an 83 [SIII] XJ6 into which I put an 85 Camaro stroker TPI motor/700r4 tranny. It was pretty much a mutt engine but I got it referee approved. That car was in an accident and the frame bent. I elected to get a new body for a transplant. Before reading the regs, I got an very nice 87. Then I read that the engine has to be the same or newer than the body. First I tried to update the Camaro but that mutt was going to be more trouble as a transplant. Sold it and used the money to acquire a 95 police interceptor out of a Caprice. The seller said the engine was complete with harness and computer. The representation was, unfortunately exaggerated. No harness or computer, and it was missing the smog pump. After a search disclosed that the pump was out of production and used garbage-looking pumps and plumbing were being sold as though platinum plated, I happened on a GM TSB issued in 2001 saying that the smog pumps were subject to failure and GM discovered they even when working they had no impact on emissions. GM produced a "Disabling Kit" accompanied by an engine department decal certifying that dealers could and had done this to 94-96 V8 Caprices. All but Santa down the chimney. But, just to be safe, I called my local referee. A very nice gentleman called back, got the story, looked up the TSB, and said it seemed OK to him, but he needed to check with his supervisor. Said he'd call back. I was feeling plum giddy. He did call back and said his super said not deal. Instead of agreeing that his super was being illogical, he embarked on a series of arguments that became increasingly fanatical the longer we talked.
Him: You can't remove it because we have no way of knowing if it had failed or not." Me: "The TSB says for these engines, the pumps whether working or not never did anything to reduce emissions." Him: "But the TSB only addresses Caprices, not Jags". Me: "What difference does it make what body the engine is in if the engine and car are meeting the emission standards established for a 95 motor?" Him: "It has to pass the visual test which it won't without the pump". Me: "Now let's see. in 2001, California was OK with and would pass a Caprice with a disabled pump and sticker. Likewise, a Caprice with the pump running but defective would pass. An 87 Jag with the straight 6 putting out emissions at the 1987 level was perfectly OK.. But a Jag whose emissions have been reduced to the 1995 level in accordance with a previously approved GM decal will not pass if the pump is disabled? How does that make sense? Him: It has to have everything it got from the factory. Are you using a Caprice wiring harness?" Me: The Caprice ECM but not the harness. Why should I?" Him: Well what if the wiring you're using has more resistance to the O2 sensors thereby causes them to send bad data to the ECM? You better use the Caprice harness. Oh, and you do have the paperwork or engine compartment plate from the Caprice you got the motor out of don't you?" Me: "Why do I need that?" Him: "How do we know that engine really came from a Caprice?" Me: "Are you saying that everyone who's come to you with an engine swap has the paperwork from the car they got it from?" Him: "They'd better" Me: "Well, it's been educational. Thanks."

Fortunately I called an office some distance from where the car will be inspected. However, I have no assurance that this dialog won't be repeated no matter where the are is taken. The question then becomes, is there a process to appeal the "supervisor's" decision, say to a regional office. After exhausting all the administrative levels, I supposed I could file some kind of writ in the courts and hope they look more rationally at the problem though I can readily see a judge saying, "I'm not opening the door to reviewing every damn decision referees make about cars. I defer to the expertise of the agency. Writ denied."

Anyone ever successfully appealed to the regional level?

 

Thank you for finding this old thread, I too am rebuilding an S3 and transplanting a 1995 Caprice police LT1 in place of the 6cyl. I can't feel your pain (from experience), but I can imagine it. We don't have vehicle inspections here in Alaska but I planned to keep as much of the original smog equipment working as I could. I did get the original engine harness and PCM and will try to reuse them.

What I liked most from your post was the comments about the smog pump and the "disabling kit" with sticker. My son is a GM mechanic at a local dealership and I will ask him tomorrow to look in the TSB's for this particular issue. If the pump didn't help anything, I sure don't want it taking up space under the bonnet.
As far as the state you live in, the few other experiences I have from there will keep me living in this state.

Good luck

Dave