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Here is a picture of the donor car to be chopped up in the name of science.
When I try something new I believe the first attempt will go poorly, the second attempt is much higher quality, and the third attempt is usually the keeper.
My though was to strip this car and use it as a point of reference with as little clutter as possible.
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Going back to the different years: were there any changes structurally from year to year? Things like engine cradle modifications, changes to suspension, etc. If I get a 82, would it be basically the same car as an 87, or perhaps more importantly, the 85 I already have?
And yes, it would have a full stem to stern make over, so inherent "reliability" is pretty moot if there was no changes that would affect the cars ability to avoid rust.
I've dismantled many XJ's over the years and steel quality varies greatly. I'm into coupes but IF I ever did an XJ sedan it would only be a later 86/87 only. By that time the steel quality and weld quality was much better than the in the late 70's and early 80's.
My car is an 83. a Northern California car. Originly sold in nearby Vallejo, I think.
Might be a cross over car. New or old quality control at time of it's making. I don't know.
But, only one teeny spot of rust. Just a bubble down low on the left front wing. has not progessed since it cvame to my garage in 2001. Best, leave it be.
Just finished an extended electrical skirmish. Started with a no brake light thing. Fixed. Then, a crank at times, no crank at times. Got stranded twice. Nearby, though. Home on a flat bed each time.
Fix:
1. New and better firewall post to solenoid cable.
2. Bum or worn out starters. Non Jaguar!!! GM stuff.
3. Rebuilt crank circuit. Non jaguar as well, but patterned after.
4. NOS ignition switch.
5. Replacement battery. _ Side post melted. Can't blame Lucas here...
All is now well.
So, could this be in any 30 year old car? You bet.
Actually, neighbor is struggling with EFI on his 94 Cadillac. A real beauty. Not the big Fleetwood brougham,. a "mere' Deville"?
Ah, le sigh. The things Californians call "rust" brings tears to eyes of classic car enthusiasts on a budget in the Northeast. You should see what we are trying to save up here, mostly because that's what we got. (check out the split window VW bus forums www.thesamba.com , you'll be shocked at what we're trying to save!)
Don't get me started on California. Uh oh! Too late. Suffice to say that please, California (and this goes for you too Arizona, I'm looking at you), STOP crushing cars that you conisider "rusty" (dime size surface rust, heck, even fist size holes are better than what we, have, which is no floors, rockers rotted from the inside, etc.
Ah, I think someone needs to start a racket, We'll send you our perfect dashboards and original seats (yep, they survive up here!) and you can send us your discarded body shells.
I follow the blog Rusty But Trusty (actually own one of the cars on there, and man, is it rusty!) and the guy who runs that often seems to complain about if he has to buff out dull paint as if that's a huge ordeal. I just roll my eyes as I read that.
Of course, the thing to do is get those California "rust buckets" up here but often enough the cost of transporting it is prohibitive. When a California car does get up here, once it goes up for sale it's like a baby gazelle entering a den full of hungry lions. It doesn't last long on the market.
So please southwest USA, you've got a gold mine there in not very rusty bodies! Keep them on the road, or at the very least, away from the crusher!
Last edited by SingBlueSilver; 08-27-2015 at 01:06 PM.
If it is just the body shape you want to keep, you could improve on the car to no end.
My suggestion would be to completely remove the whole cars wiring and replace it with the car of your choice. Would take a bit longer, but a modern wiring loom from the volvo that also has the same engine would then theoretically have all the mod cons (if adapted) like alarms, lights, central locking/keyless entry, and be a plug and play job if done properly.
I did this to an old datsun 1600 (510) with a nissan silvia (240sx) loom, and modern Fuel injected engine and everything went so smoothly, just had to lengthen/shortern a few wires
If it is just the body shape you want to keep, you could improve on the car to no end.
My suggestion would be to completely remove the whole cars wiring and replace it with the car of your choice. Would take a bit longer, but a modern wiring loom from the volvo that also has the same engine would then theoretically have all the mod cons (if adapted) like alarms, lights, central locking/keyless entry, and be a plug and play job if done properly.
I did this to an old datsun 1600 (510) with a nissan silvia (240sx) loom, and modern Fuel injected engine and everything went so smoothly, just had to lengthen/shortern a few wires
That was pretty much what I was planning to do. I want a clean install and easy of use is ideal.
The climate control seems like it may be a hurdle.
I have grown very spoiled by the modern cars with the keyless entry/start and I wonder if there are options in the aftermarket that wouldn't be absolute rubbish, but I'm trying to focus on just one thing at a time.
Haha, once I get the mechanicals sorted out in reliable fashion the infotainment would be the next step. I am thinking a tablet of sorts should be mounted somewhere without destroying the aesthetics of the car and then the audio piped out to an audio controller to get reasonable sounds. Only a small sub-woofer though, thank you much.
I'll be pulling the donor car round about the house - hopefully - later today and I'll post a few more pictures of it's sins. *shrug* Maybe I'm over stating how rough it is. It's just the one I've already got and I assumed my first attempt won't be especially pretty.
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Going back to the different years: were there any changes structurally from year to year? Things like engine cradle modifications, changes to suspension, etc. If I get a 82, would it be basically the same car as an 87, or perhaps more importantly, the 85 I already have?
.
No significant suspension changes. Circa 1983 the front control arms were changed to give a slight geometry change. That's it.
No design changes in cradle/subframe design. Not sure if quality of materials changed.
That was pretty much what I was planning to do. I want a clean install and easy of use is ideal.
The 'replace all the wiring' idea comes up from time to time. Personally I'd advise against it unless you're just absolutely itching to do LOTS of extra work of highly questionable benefit. Lights, dashboard, door wiring...the body/chassis looms....a big undertaking to replace. Unless the car has been in a fire or flood then 95% of the existing wiring will be pristine except for the engine bay wiring (which you won't be using) and wiring exposed to the elements (horn and exterior lamps, which is easily repaired-as-needed).
The effort would be better used elsewhere, IMHO.
With respect to fuel injection/engine wiring, Jaguar made it easy in that those are separate looms that can be removed individually. The F.I. ECU is in the boot with a stand-alone loom running forward. Can be removed fully intact in a short afternoon....or obviously much less if you want to cut it.
The climate control seems like it may be a hurdle.
Climate control can be a hurdle on these cars, yes
In what respect are you referring?
I have grown very spoiled by the modern cars with the keyless entry/start and I wonder if there are options in the aftermarket that wouldn't be absolute rubbish
Keyless entry is easily (and commonly) installed on a Series III although three variations of central locking were used by Jaguar so the process varies a bit.
I couldn't work on the X350, so I worked on the S3 a bit.
I hauled it out of the field it has been sitting in for nearly 6 years and drained the fluids and got rid of the lions share of the debris that has collects in the engine bay.
The cabin was remarkably well preserved for having sat in the weather and no sign of rodent intrusion. Can't say the same for the boot though. There was layer of turds that I had to deal with.
In regards to the over all condition of the body otherwise, it's actually not as bad as I expected.
There is rust around the filler necks.
There are a lot of spots that the paint is pealing up and perhaps bondo? The paint seems especially thick, but not as thick as I would expect if someone slathered filler everywhere. Maybe it was just a quality re-paint at some point.
Rust around the front windshield. It appears like someone had has removed the windshield in the past and the attempted repair isn't holding but so well.
There is a few holes, the most visible one probably being the one by the left rear quarter panel wheel arch.
The floor and frame are in good shape and no immediately visible intrusion in the engine bay.
I really am doubtful that this body will be worth saving due to being able to find a nicer body for lot a lot of coin. Should a forum member want the body though, it can be had for the price of scrap metal once I'm done with it. Minus of course any parts I keep. Spare grill, headlights, turn signals, etc will all be kept by me.
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In regards to Doug's comments about removing all the wiring. Yes, I'm not going to go crazy and rip the entire car apart in an attempt to solve all it's potential electrical gremlins. I was always taught that nothing is thrown away until the project is completed, so I will be avoiding cutting any wiring harnesses on that principle. I've rebuilt wiring harnesses before, wire by wire, and it's a tedious process that I don't care to do any more than I possibly have to.
In regards to the a/c: I was thinking about the difficulties using the Volvo a/c compressor and condenser, and wondering how hard both installing the newer systems and R134 go over. Temperature sensor, evaporator, etc. Vintage cars don't need a/c, right? Hrm....
My brother's 122 has a, I think, factory system that mounted under the dash and I don't believe he had trouble with that retrofit. But he didn't change the engine at all.
Well, I have been plugging away at my project but the hurricane did a number on the test mule.
I've been looking for another body, but so far nothing has really panned out. I looked at two "supposed" to be really nice bodied 86's, but in reality both were quite shot. I've you encounter one on the central east coast, let me know.
Choice of a car can be objective or subjective or both. I've bought a few in my life.
I agree with Doug. Choose the best example in the budget, specie or year secondary at best. I wanted a Bronco. The field narrowed to a rusty but detailed Bronco and a really good F150. Price almost alike as well as the year. Well, the Bronco was powered by a 351 and the F150 by only the 302. I chose the F150. It served me well.
Bimmers!!!
The "kid" next door flips and fixes cars a s a side line. Pretty good shade tree mechanic. Most of his projects come out just fine.
Well, he took in a neat little Bimmer convertible. Just a service the trans job. Change oil and filter. Went just fine. Oh, oh, a come back !!! All gears except reverse vanished!!!! Now what????? Wonder what it has as a trans. My guess would be Gertrag???
Why? Issue in the pickup.... From afar and purely wild....
If you are going for a volvo drive train it would be great to use a T5,6 or 8.
Might as well as it's going to be a similar amount of work.
Are the T series engines reliable? Used to love seeing the volvo turbobrick racing!!
Don't know much about Volvos though I'm more of a Saab nut.
Well, I have been plugging away at my project but the hurricane did a number on the test mule.
I've been looking for another body, but so far nothing has really panned out. I looked at two "supposed" to be really nice bodied 86's, but in reality both were quite shot. I've you encounter one on the central east coast, let me know.
Wow. Thats some hood ornament! And just think some folks dont like the leaper!!!
In seriousness though. Its hurts to look at! Im.glad nobody got hurt!
Well, the tree almost missed the car and where it did impact didn't do as much damage as you would think. Either due to impact going elsewhere or the strength of the car. I would speculate it would be the weight going elsewhere because the dry rotting tires didn't explode.
Oddly enough the tree split just above the hood I had propped against it.
I can't say it's a huge loss because I had almost complete given up on this car as a test mule because of how rusty the frame was. I did not feel safe being under the car while it was on jack stands and I placed further braces under the car to keep the car from imploding my head in case the stands went through the floor...
I had found a car that sounded about perfect. Purchased off an estate sale a year ago with about 70K miles. Supposed to be in really fantastic shape, and the purchaser was a real estate agent who was selling before he moved to Australia.
Good miles, it was that light metallic blue, had the wire wheels, and the interior appeared to be in pretty decent shape. On the plus side it ran and drove and had a valid inspection sticker. I told the seller, "if the body is in as good a shape as described it, I'll pay your asking price even if it doesn't run."
I proceeded to be a tad annoying and asked for lots of photos, asked for pictures of the common rust points, and did as much due diligence as I could from a couple hundred miles away to the point of being annoying. I justified my badgering because I was pretty sure this was the replacement car for my current SIII and was willing to pay the price posted without fuss. I was almost all set to give away money sight unseen and was arrange transport when I decided it would be better to make absolutely certain and hired an appraiser in the area to come look at the car. And yea.... That was money WELL spent.
Odometer didn't work so who knows what the true miles are. The fact that was omitted from the many conversation while the car was being advertised as a low mileage car alone was almost enough to make me walk away, but the inspector continued giving the car a good grilling and it got even better.
The claims many many claims of no rust was backup up by CAREFUL close ups of select areas, because not being slow close would reveal the faults. The entire car was that way. Most of the common rust points were well on their way to being serious problems and the entire car had rust bubbles showing up under the paint and the floor boards were leaving this world for the next.
And of course the interior was pretty shot too. I was quite miffed, but very glad I didn't buy sight unseen.
I said, "I'll give you $500" and the seller told me to "get the **** out." The feeling was mutual, and so we parted ways.
Well, it gets better. That same weekend my X350 very nearly broke my thumb while I tried to change the left front dash vent. I moved the steering wheel out of the way to get the trim around the instrument cluster loose and then without thinking took the key out of the ignition. The steering column went back to "exit height," which is all the way in and all the way up. My thumb got caught between the steering column and the dash right at the knuckle. I have piano fingers but there was no room to spare and it still hurts 36 hour later...
A silly mistake, but I'm not used to power steering columns....
A friend of mine says this is a higher power is trying to speak some sense into my life, perhaps to tell me my free time would be better spent on non-British cars?
08-26-2015, 07:13 PM
