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This has been a plan for a long time and now we are under way!
Today I drove the Donor car (1986 Series III XJ6 4.2) to the workshop for engine removal and front suspension removal.
The front end will be installed into the series II Daimler to improve overall handling as the series III have bigger wheel bearings and better steering assemblies etc.
Next job is to dummy fit the LSA onto the front sub-frame for clearance checks etc. (May need to modify pan)
We are using a full conversion kit from Andrew at Jaguar specialties which will speed up the process and make it that little bit easier.
The kit includes sub-frame front & rear bushes modified to handle the extra power the LSA will provide.
We managed to get the engine & sub-frame out in 6 hours so was a successful day!
The 4,2 XK motor is up for sale along with the factory Transmission.
Can you elaborate on what is different with the SIII front end? I am restoring my SII XJ12C, but I do have a SIII parts car. Which pieces are worth swapping over? Unfortunately I already got all of the SII parts back from the powder-coater.
You mean LSA as in 556 HP. If that the case the rest of the car is going to need major upgrades in brakes, suspension and, chassis. At about 350 HP these cars become a mess, the rear cage rolls up, the brakes over heat and the chassis get pushed out of shape if you have traction. All these factors get exacerbated by the modern high performance wheels and tires that find their way on to these projects. Everyone starts with the engine, I did too, but I learned it's really should be one of the last things to go in becasue you need the engine out to do most of the other upgrades. Keep that in mind.
Series 3 spindles have larger wheel bearings and the Neoprene seals help keep the greese in the hub and off the brakes. Series 3 racks are short tower and a slightly quicker ratio. That's all I know about the difference between series 2 and 3.
Series 3 spindles have larger wheel bearings and the Neoprene seals help keep the greese in the hub and off the brakes. Series 3 racks are short tower and a slightly quicker ratio. That's all I know about the difference between series 2 and 3.
Besides that, those interested in the Series III upgrade might want to seek out the later variants for the improved steering geometry. Circa 1983 Jaguar changed the control arms. Prior to this change I think the geometry was the same as Series II.
This pertains to the Series III 6 cylinder cars. Series III cars with the V12 had the 'improved geometry' control arms all along which, from memory, were the same as the XJS.
Hello all, this is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties and we have a pretty exciting project here with an LSA going into this early XJ coupe. What may actually be surprising to you as well is that we have another customer doing an LSA as well, but this one is going into an XJS (coupe), back here in the US. We should be seeing more and more of these as these engine packages come down in price and begin to be quite the deal compared to going the create engine route. Some hood clearance work may (or may not) be needed on the XJC; something almost certainly will need to be done on the low hood of an XJS, but that's par for the course.
One comment from a previous post was funny- "the chassis get pushed out of shape if you have traction". And that will really be the name of the game. The cars that run the LSA from the factory (Cadillac CTSV and Camaro) all have advanced traction control to help with this, something we will never have in the Jag. But our Jag wheel wells and the tires that fit in them are a little small for real traction here. We'll have to have to live with wheelspin (or darn.....)
I doubt it will be possible to put down all of that power from a dead start enough to cause any chassis/shell damage. There are some tricks that can be employed on the rear suspension to manage windup, so that may be in the cards for both of these cars. Regardless, they'll be a hoot....
What mods or suggestions do you have regarding the rear 'vee mounts'?
In my case I have no worries about overwhelming the mounts (or car) with too much power but, still, I'm curious about improvements to the mounting system....which I've never been entirely comfortable with even though I've never had a failure on any of my old Jags.
Hello all, this is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties and we have a pretty exciting project here with an LSA going into this early XJ coupe. What may actually be surprising to you as well is that we have another customer doing an LSA as well, but this one is going into an XJS (coupe), back here in the US. We should be seeing more and more of these as these engine packages come down in price and begin to be quite the deal compared to going the create engine route. Some hood clearance work may (or may not) be needed on the XJC; something almost certainly will need to be done on the low hood of an XJS, but that's par for the course.
One comment from a previous post was funny- "the chassis get pushed out of shape if you have traction". And that will really be the name of the game. The cars that run the LSA from the factory (Cadillac CTSV and Camaro) all have advanced traction control to help with this, something we will never have in the Jag. But our Jag wheel wells and the tires that fit in them are a little small for real traction here. We'll have to have to live with wheelspin (or darn.....)
I doubt it will be possible to put down all of that power from a dead start enough to cause any chassis/shell damage. There are some tricks that can be employed on the rear suspension to manage windup, so that may be in the cards for both of these cars. Regardless, they'll be a hoot....
Can you elaborate on what is different with the SIII front end? I am restoring my SII XJ12C, but I do have a SIII parts car. Which pieces are worth swapping over? Unfortunately I already got all of the SII parts back from the powder-coater.
In relation to the front suspension , the differences are in the changes made to the top and bottom wishbones and the improved higher geared steering rack.
Also bigger wheel bearings and improved brakes from what I can tell.
I'm going to take a closer look at the front and rear suspension of the XJ. I have access to some pretty powerful suspension software and want to play around with a few areas. I'm thinking a custom front and rear subframe and a switch to more accessible differential (LSD variant). This will not be a quick process, but something I'll tick over with for the next couple of years.
I don't think the front is too bad in S3 guise, but the rear is very heavy due to the size of bearings used in the hubs/diff and , as mentioned, not very stiff either.
There are those who will question whether it's worth the effort, but I have an interest in vehicle dynamics and like to keep my mind active with such projects.
I've heard that the ZF rack used by the XJ40 is better (modern seals)/higher geared (less turns lock to lock) than the S3 version too?
One comment from a previous post was funny- "the chassis get pushed out of shape if you have traction". And that will really be the name of the game. The cars that run the LSA from the factory (Cadillac CTSV and Camaro) all have advanced traction control to help with this, something we will never have in the Jag. But our Jag wheel wells and the tires that fit in them are a little small for real traction here. We'll have to have to live with wheelspin (or darn.....)
Not funny. I have no financial interest in spurring on these out of balance projects. Andrew does. It's true, the chassis will load up, twist and act like a spring IF you mange the get the traction a modern tire can offer. Coupe's and Sedans twist around the transmission tunnel area and along the floor. XJS are shorter and far more rigid in the firewall, tunnel & floor pan areas. Under stress, like hard acceleration with traction, the engine will want to rotate twisting the front and the back end will be pushing up. Consequently the car will be increasingly difficult to control as power and traction increases. Some people find this phenomenon to be FUN like riding an out of control horse and thus enjoy coaxing it where it needs to go the best that can. That's fine, if that's what you're after. I dont particularly like that feeling and on a race track it's useless. Perhaps I can illustrate with this story....My friend John has a new Porsche 991 Turbo but he says my Jag coupe feels more fun becasue it "scares him". The 991 Turbo is composed, solid and built to handle it's power. I'd prefer the 991 but I'n not inclined to drop 190k on one at this point in my life or perhaps ever.
I see it this way.... If you went through the expense (12 to 15k) for an LSA I'm going to assume you have hopes for high performance levels. With out major upgrades to everything you''ll just have an out of control mess on your hands. I believe most of these upgrades have to be done before the engine goes in and requires knowledge that is not well known or understood. I learned the hard way too.
So If you can't get the traction then what's the point? Where's the fun in wheel spin? Are we making the the ultimate burn out box machine? Unless the car is built right with chassis, suspension and brake upgrades then a Honda Accord with a sport package will out accelerate, handle and out brake it for far less money. Carry on as you see fit but you're on the road to very high costs with very low performance levels unless every other system in the vehicle is improved dramatically.
It's your car, do as you see fit and what makes you happy, it will be fun, you'll learn a lot. But...I'm not going to sit here and let Andrew's ridicule go unanswered. I fully understand he doesn't want anything like reality to interfere with his business and profits. Andrew knows many people are far more interested in the process rather than the finished project and in that sense the results often don't matter. He's also 'managing your expectations' and making sure you know you'll be "living with wheel spin".
He's entitled to say what every he likes as gospel from his perspective as someone who profits from these projects, but so am I from the perspective of some who races these cars.
Last edited by icsamerica; 09-30-2019 at 02:29 PM.
Playing devils advocate here from someone who races high performance cars that rely on frame twisting and wheelspin: it can be fun.
That being said, I wouldn't be trying to do that with this heavy of a car, with that weak of an engine, and that fragile of a frame.
And a 500-800hp engine in a 4000lb car is not "out of control", that barely comes in as usable power with a driver that isn't completely incompetent.
Regardless of all of that, isn't this going to be a street car? With an LSA swap, it will be in the comfortable range for a modern car.
Will it get smoked by a stock miata? Yep.
Will it be a hazard or nuisance on the road? Not at all.
Not funny. I have no financial interest in spurring on these out of balance projects. Andrew does. It's true, the chassis will load up, twist and act like a spring IF you mange the get the traction a modern tire can offer. Coupe's and Sedans twist around the transmission tunnel area and along the floor. XJS are shorter and far more rigid in the firewall, tunnel & floor pan areas. Under stress, like hard acceleration with traction, the engine will want to rotate twisting the front and the back end will be pushing up. Consequently the car will be increasingly difficult to control as power and traction increases. Some people find this phenomenon to be FUN like riding an out of control horse and thus enjoy coaxing it where it needs to go the best that can. That's fine, if that's what you're after. I dont particularly like that feeling and on a race track it's useless. Perhaps I can illustrate with this story....My friend John has a new Porsche 991 Turbo but he says my Jag coupe feels more fun becasue it "scares him". The 991 Turbo is composed, solid and built to handle it's power. I'd prefer the 991 but I'n not inclined to drop 190k on one at this point in my life or perhaps ever.
I see it this way.... If you went through the expense (12 to 15k) for an LSA I'm going to assume you have hopes for high performance levels. With out major upgrades to everything you''ll just have an out of control mess on your hands. I believe most of these upgrades have to be done before the engine goes in and requires knowledge that is not well known or understood. I learned the hard way too.
So If you can't get the traction then what's the point? Where's the fun in wheel spin? Are we making the the ultimate burn out box machine? Unless the car is built right with chassis, suspension and brake upgrades then a Honda Accord with a sport package will out accelerate, handle and out brake it for far less money. Carry on as you see fit but you're on the road to very high costs with very low performance levels unless every other system in the vehicle is improved dramatically.
It's your car, do as you see fit and what makes you happy, it will be fun, you'll learn a lot. But...I'm not going to sit here and let Andrew's ridicule go unanswered. I fully understand he doesn't want anything like reality to interfere with his business and profits. Andrew knows many people are far more interested in the process rather than the finished project and in that sense the results often don't matter. He's also 'managing your expectations' and making sure you know you'll be "living with wheel spin".
He's entitled to say what every he likes as gospel from his perspective as someone who profits from these projects, but so am I from the perspective of some who races these cars.
I have no budget.
It will be built right.
No one manages my expectations. I know exactly what to expect.
Last edited by Crackerbuzz; 09-30-2019 at 08:26 PM.
Playing devils advocate here from someone who races high performance cars that rely on frame twisting and wheelspin: it can be fun.
That being said, I wouldn't be trying to do that with this heavy of a car, with that weak of an engine, and that fragile of a frame.
And a 500-800hp engine in a 4000lb car is not "out of control", that barely comes in as usable power with a driver that isn't completely incompetent.
Regardless of all of that, isn't this going to be a street car? With an LSA swap, it will be in the comfortable range for a modern car.
Will it get smoked by a stock miata? Yep.
Will it be a hazard or nuisance on the road? Not at all.
Yes this will be a street car. Not looking to drag.
Hello all, this is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties. Interesting comments indeed!!!
One of the details in my business is indeed expectations, as you might expect. But it is a 2-way street as well- potential customers look to us (Jaguar Specialties) with the expectation that we can deliver as promised, nothing less, and hopefully sometimes more. What many don't realize is that the conversation process that happens before a sale is made is also something of a qualification as well. The key to any conversion being successful is that the customer has both a realistic budget (or resources) and the experience/mechanical knowledge to pull this together. While a kit and instructions are great, if a customer is not sure which end of a screwdriver to hold, you know this is going nowhere good. You may find this surprising, but I turn away some potential orders for exactly this reason. If after a decent discussion I feel an end user has little likelihood of completing the car, I say no thank you and decline the order. There is no sense, no matter how you look at it, for me entertain a sale that (even though the parts will work perfectly for a qualified user) will ultimately end in frustration for someone not up to the task. What's the point...??? I'm a Jag conversion enthusiast myself and want customers to have the same enjoyment I get from my cars.
So what's the point?? In this case, Craig and I had some long conversations about what he had and mind, and also his technical background. I made it clear what the limitations were of our parts (what eng/trans package they were designed for, etc.,.) and that what adjustments might be needed for this "slightly different" package. He made clear that he had the experience to build on what we have and understood that he was working a bit outside the lines. My feeling was that he was the right person to take something like this on. We'll work together to do what's necessary to make it all work together- quite honestly the prospect of an XJC with this sort of powerplant makes the whole effort more than worthwhile. This will be a fantastic car and an attention grabber when done for sure. It's too bad he's a world away- how will I ever get a chance to take it for a spin???
So thanks to all for your comments. This is an open forum, so if you have positive, helpful suggestions, share them for everyone's benefit. Or just watch and see how it goes. I have always enjoyed this friendly environment- the back and forth, offering a tip, finding an answer, or just reading....
Why not?/ My vote is go for it!! Belated for sure, the project is well under way.
And, I have no issues with Andrew' scruples. That is to sell the impossible, just for the bucks.
Much less what might be a real danger...
Well, my swap was a huge leap for me. but, Andrew and others helped a lot. I got it done". well, more or less. It looks good drives very well. But, the voyage travails and all was well worth t. I sure learned a lot. still am..
Decades ago, son and I bought the remnants of a 58 dodge to "play" with. It donated it's very healthy V8 to a unibody car. The name escapes me It used the body matrix from the famed 37 Cord!! Drag raced with success. Full street trim. But, clearly seen "buckle" in the top, just above the "B" pillar. .
Another "odd" transfusion in he era. 331 Chrysler hemi in a to Hudson coupe. The guy that did it? master hot rod guy and Hudson tech. Many thought he was nuts. Oh, crew chief on race teams...
Of course you should go for it...who suggested you shouldn't? I'm simply suggesting lots of other work needs to be done in support of the LSA. On this thread there seem to be no mention of that and only a mention of using a 215 series tire which puts the power generated in the front way out of balance with the capability in the back. That's seems real odd to me. I'm not trying to discourage anything but encourage you pause, think and upgrade everything else to support the LSA.
09-28-2019, 04:46 AM
Daimler Double Six - Series II - LSA Project
