Good morning to all,

Can anyone help me document if the Daimler Double Six was offered with the Van den Plas trim package in Europe (not US or UK) after 1984? Photos would be helpful. Before 1984, in what did the Daimler Vanden Plas package consist?

Thank you in advance for sharing your time and expertise!

Tommaso

 

I believe that Jaguar lost the right to use the name Vanden Plas (at least in the UK and most likely Europe) when it was sold off and separated from BL in 1984. BL kept the name and I think they used it for Range Rovers and Rovers. It may well now belong to Jaguar Land Rover again (or BMW or Ford or ...?). After the 1984 privatisation, Jaguar simplified the model line up a little and all Daimlers, certainly Double Sixes, had the highest level of trim.

I apologise for being vague, but rights to brand names and trade marks is always subject to a lot of legal uncertainties.

 

Tommaso - Do you find running a DD6 in southern Italy difficult? You need a good covered parking and access to a mechanic who understands our cars. I kept mine up the coast from you for a while. It suffered severely from the 'blood rain' and the sun.

 

Dear Peter,

Thank you for sharing the information that you offered re Vanden Plas.

To reply to your second post, I do not remember much about maintenance as, at the time, I was at school in England and would only return home for half and end of terms. I was not aware of how and where my father would maintain Daimler D6. The other Daimler D6, the coupé, was kept in Cap Ferrat and we sold that holiday home (and I imagine the car) even earlier. By when I was sent off to school we already changed holiday home. I enquired with the local Jaguar dealer but they, politely, refuse to maintain these cars. I have just begun searching for a mechanic in my town (Naples) but I am already finding it challenging to repair the power steering and air conditioning as most have never seen a V12, let alone a 35 year old one. I have been recommended to change, pump valves, condenser, evaporator and lines to upgrade the A/C system to obtain modern standard's cool air. As for the power steering it appears to be a ZF unit and parts are difficult to come by so I was offered to replace it with an aftermarket unit. I have not found a mechanic that knows our cars in our area. I will continue searching....

Sunshine and food are just about the only good things that we have here in the south so I consider sun bleaching almost a welcome challenge!

 

I was in Terracina and finding someone who had the vaguest idea was hopeless. I did most things myself, but there are limits on what's possible in a garden! I found a good mechanic who had a workshop somewhere between Frosinone and Ferentino. I think that his name was Marcoccia. His main interest was rallying Renaults, but he had worked on a few series XJ cars. Obviously, it's quite a way from Naples. It's worth joining the Italian Jaguar Club. I imagine the JEC has an Italian area. For major work or a rebuild, it may be easier to ship it the car to someone like David Marks in England. When we left Italy, the car wasn't running well and I had it transported to David in Nottingham by CARS Europe - the cost wasn't too bad.

My air con is still the original but with a replacement, eco-friendly gas. It works OK, though it doesn't have such heavy demands on it as yours. It's advisable to do an internet search on updating the system as most likely there are complete upgrade kits available that are made to fit.

The power steering is fairly standard equipment. ZF parts should be available everywhere. It's possible to obtain almost everything from SNG Barratt. Although they are a UK company, they have operations in the Netherlands and Germany so Brexit shouldn't cause major problems in supplying Italy. (They might even be able to suggest a workshop in Naples).

I hope that helps. Good luck with your car!

 

A problem is that many people think everything on an old Jaguar is complicated and exotic. In fact, much of it is rather ordinary.

Your air conditioning, for example, is utterly simple and unremarkable as far as the refrigeration portion goes. That is, everything in the engine bay which creates refrigerated air. Any shop familiar with A/C repairs will find nothing in the design that they haven't seen before.

The control side of the system, inside the cabin, is a different matter.

Cheers
DD

 

@ Doug, thank you.

That is a relief. I know two A/C specialists in Naples who perform maintenance and modifications on ordinary cars. I will try them too.

The shop that recommended a complete repair is a Jaguar sub-dealer and I went there as I imagined that it required a specialist. I also know the ex-RR/Bentley dealer of Florence. He terminated his dealership and now restores classics British cars. Roberto Menegatto. Does anyone know of him? I called him just now and he happened to know very well my father so he was glad to help. A lovely chap and reputed to be excellent, by many friends who use him. He also suggested to distinguish between in & out of the engine bay but he too suggested that I might want to replace the old compressor and evaporator with a new set that he imports from the US, made in aluminium, specifically to be retrofitted to classic cars.

As mentioned, before I decide, I will certainly seek a second (and third) opinion from these two A/C specialists before deciding. One of my challenges is the, usual, economic constraint! But thank you for opening my eyes to the fact that under the bonnet it is all very ordinary.
------------------------------

@ Peter, again, thank you.

There are a few JAG forums I am unsure which is the official one.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned, cost is a factor. I have 5 other classics to maintain and, if I am not careful, my wife will have my hide!! Shipping to the UK is out of the question and even shipping only to Florence may be beyond what I might want to invest. But ... I might drive to England with my Daimler for a family road trip. This Double Six is for my Naples home (LHD). Up until now we lived mainly in Naples but, from September, my 6 yo daughter will begin school in Burghclere, Hampshire and we will therefore move there (we have double legal residence and permanent addresses). Plus, on top of that, my wife is quite into road trips, so.... well, we will see. But, for sure, the A/C and the power steering must be taken care of before any serious road trip!

I will call SNG Barratt and ask for advice re a shop in Naples. Again, thank you!

 

A few years ago when I had a Rover 75, we drove from our home to Rome and back twice. My wife comes from Rome. Whilst not a 1-day journey, it can be done in 2 days. I think the last time, we stayed at the IBIS in Chambery on the way back. Of course with a 5.3 litre V12 engine, you will spend quite a lot on petrol !! SInce then we have regularly driven to Germany and done trips to Berlin and also Nuremberg.

 

Ciao Mitchell, yes fuel consumption is always an issue on road trips but we are used to big V8: a 6.7 litre and a twin turbo 4.2 litre. I don't know how to put it but... basically... my wife would not enquire on petrol cost for a road trip to the UK with tourist stops on the way, as much as she would complain about shipping costs to the UK.

What is the average fuel consumption of the 5.3 HE at motorway speed limits? 6 km/lt? Less? More?

 

LOL! Yes, we do all have our Priorities!
(';')

 

At a steady 130 kph a 5.3 XJS coupe with the UK standard 12.5:1 compression ratio, no cats, in top condition with a GM400 box, electric main radiator fan, and a 2.88:1 rear end, will return a real 20 mph = 12 to13 litres/100 km.

 

I have been successfully employing this strategy: concerning major expenses (buying a new classic car and the like) I ask forgiveness from my wife AFTER the bad behaviour. On the more frequent and mundane expenses (shipping a car to UK) I as permission from my wife BEFORE the action. My logic (is it logic?) is that when the risk and danger are real and serious, my consequential contrition will also be real and serious and my wife will believe it.

Now, me being somewhat old, after a while I tend to forget my good intentions and promises and I can start all over again.

 

Ascanio
I would consider your maintenance system by system; e.g. cooling system, aircon system, front suspension and steering, engine ignition system, engine fuel system, braking system. Then tackle the car one system at a time.
Depending upon your own likes and dislikes, much of this can be done by the owner. On this forum, many will be able to describe in some detail what needs to be done/checked and how to do it. Thus for those aspects that require knowledge or equipment or interest that you do not feel able to supply, a very detailed and comprehensive set of "instructions" can be supplied for your mechanic's benefit.
To be reliable the car will need a great deal of "catch up" maintenance; paying a garage to do all of it will be very expensive, and is not necessary.
As to the aircon, changing the condenser, the compressor and regassing is no big deal, as others have indicated. The in-cabin electroncis and control parts of the automated temperature system are still available: https://www.jag-aire.com/
As much as anything, the most important decision is a personal one: How much do I want to make this car into a reliable useable vehicle, how much will I do myself, how much will I be willing to spend on outside help?

 

Wow! 8/9 km/lt is better than my other cars and very doable. I think that a road trip is due as soon as the Wuhan virus will relent!

 

Good afternoon Greg,

Thank you for the advice. I used to maintain my cars when I was a teenager but I haven't attempted ever since. But, given the costs of professionals, given my passion and given the information that on this forum there are mechanics willing to help, I think that I might seriously consider your advice. I will post a message in this forum to see the response.

I have space in my garage for a hydraulic car lifter (unsure of the English name for this) that can be bought, second hand, for 500€ plus a set of tools and a bench. I don't have the height to fully lift a car but ... I imagine that I can always work sitting on a stool!

I also know a few mechanics, in Naples, who might be willing to work on an hourly basis, in my garage. They could teach me and help me. We are moving to Hampshire in September but we keep returning here and this car will stay here, so I will mull over your idea.

 

The Holy Grail target is 21 mpg at 80 mph. I could never quite reach it. More recently I found the car was making it, but my speedo reads 3 to 4 mph slow at around 80 mph (130 km/h). Even in Germany where it's permitted and in Italy where it's tolerated, there's not much point in going faster than 130 km/h (apart from the odd quick burst for the fun of it) as you keep being blocked by slower moving traffic. My wife is from Como in the north so our first trips were in the Mk2 to and from there. That's 40 years ago. The roads weren't as good. The motorway wasn't complete in Switzerland and you had to go over passes, but it was a comfortable drive in a day. And with no satnav, we sometimes got lost. With present day traffic, it's more difficult. After they retired, her parents moved to the seaside about 1/3rd of the way from Rome to Naples. That's definitely not to be attempted in one day unless there's an emergency. To be honest, it's nicer to make the journey into an interesting road trip, visit parts of France, Switzerland, even Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.

If it's a priority, Dusseldorf used to be good for shopping, but I know more about old Jaguars than shopping ...

 

In a day ?? Wow! From Naples it is 2,100Km. Since my first post I introduced the idea to my wife and we are planning a 10 day road trip through France. 200Km/day plus the last 350Km leg from Falkstone to Burghclere.

I drive at 140 Km/h using my google maps as speedo. Italian and French motorway speed traps' trigger is usually set @ 10% over the limit. In Italy a law requires a 10% tolerance (*) and, therefore, 10Km/h over the 130 Km/h limit, should be safe.

(*) It is incredible how our country's culture is geared, even legally, for approximation! The Swiss and Japanese would never have it! I lived 17 years in Japan and along certain motorways, specifically one north of Tokyo, the speed limit was enforced at the very speed limit with zero tolerance. Well, Italy is certainly not perfect but, hey, which country really is?


Congratulations on the one hand and you have my sympathies on the other!

That is the next car that I will look to add. A Daimler 2.5 V8 series I.

Gaeta, Formia or Santojanni, perhaps? That would be a coincidence because ...

 

I wasn't as clear as I should have been. The comfortable day was from the ferry port in The Netherlands to Como following the east Rhine autobahn. Traffic was much lighter 40 years ago and we could make the whole journey without any delays. In Switzerland, going over the pass is much more fun than the tunnels and should be much slower, but these days, in summer time, you can have queue of several hours to enter a tunnel.

The DD6 has a good economy/speed compromise around130 km/h. Much faster and the fuel consumption seems to rise. It may be a mixture of aerodynamic drag and an engine speed where the HE V12 is most efficient. It would be interesting to know what happens with a taller gear ratio.

My Mk2 is a Jaguar 3.4. They are wonderful cars. It's not as smooth, silent and sophisticated as the DD6 and doesn't achieve the cornering power or performance. In fact the handling can be a touch tricky, but they are relatively simple and as tough as old boots, totally unstoppable. And, in the right colour, they look fantastic.

Como is a lovely place. It's also well worth a stopover on a long road trip. We've often spent the night there on the way south. Apart from the city, there are very attractive towns and villages around the lake. Cernobbio has some great hotels. My wife's parents left Como to live in Terracina, which neither of us like very much (and possibly why we call it 1/3rd of the way from Rome to Naples). It should be an excellent seaside town, but it's been developed in not the smartest way. In a sense, it's the original 'autogrill.' When the Romans constructed the Via Appia, it's where the mountains forced their beautiful, straight line road to the sea. I guess they had an overnight stop before weaving through the hills on their way to Naples. My wife's mother is from Sardinia, which is one of the most beautiful places on earth and would have been a way better choice for retirement.

 

As I mentioned, I love that Jaguar and my next purchase may well be a Daimler V8 250. I know Terracina well as it is close to Santojanni (near Formia) where we had a beautiful home when I was a child. Como too is lovely. I have visited all the lake towns often. Last year I spent a few nights in Salò as I was best man to a friend's wedding at the Vittoriale that, in turn, was once his grand father's home. Many classic car rallies are organized around lake Como. Perhaps this club's Italian chapter may consider organizing one there?

 

Series II 5.3L Daimler Double Six VanDen Plas (RHD, Black on Burnished Gold metallic)

So, here is a mid 70s pic of our beauty that escaped down under as a diplomatic car in Australia. I realise this model is earlier than your choice, and having owned several later Series IIIs (but not VDPs), I found the later, larger front windows at the expense of the Series II front quarter windows a real plus in our generally warmer climate, but this was offset (IMHO) by the far cleaner, classic front offered by that slim front bumper.

Located in the broad Australian countryside, with regular 400 to 1,000Km road trips back to humanity, this vehicle was a godsend. With room aplenty in the rear for our 3 growing children and luxurious comfort up front, 20mpg (imperial) or 14L/100Km was always doable, but rare escapades into the city saw the big D a firm favourite visitor to every petrol service station it could find.

The car had been well maintained, and we sought to continue over the long years in our care. I recall the only time it "failed to proceed", although it was my wife's go-to car and I was not present. The pressure line from power steering pump to rack, burst in an interstate country town. Here is where my story intersects with your enquiry and the good advice you have been offered.

The local mechanic to whom my wife took the car had never worked on any Jaguar, nor had he even seen a V12 Daimler VDP. Even so, in a matter of hours, he had removed the hydraulic line and arranged with his regional suppliers to ship him out the required parts that evening. From these, he fabricated an entirely new replacement. For good measure, and at purely nominal cost, he loaned my wife a temp car. The VDP was back on the road within 48 hours; I recall the bill was entirely reasonable . . .and the only downer was told to me by my eldest son years later, when he leaned forward from the back seat and cautioned his Mum that she was "going a bit fast" , , , to be precise, a tad over 180kph.

Yes; magnificent machines and I am delighted that yours will join the dwindling, but much cherished parade.
Best wishes,
Ken