1st, thanks for all the amazing information all of you contribute. You don't know me but have helped me countless times.

OK...have an XJ12C with seized engine. Got it this way, may have been seized since 2000. Followed many different expert suggestions regarding stuck rings, locked main crank bearings. No joy.

Just discovered starter solenoid pinion gear is jammed at flexplate. Really jammed, starter must come out. I'm sure all of my ferocious 'breaker bar + pipe' efforts didn't help this situation.

All of the detailed Jag XJ V12 starter removal tips, pictures and suggested procedures appear to be for XJS with a TH400. Anyone know where I can find this procedure for a Series 2 XJ body and a BW trans? I know the starter is the same, but the trans tunnel appears different. Approach top bolt from behind or from side?

Anyone convert to a GR starter by using the later Jaguar V12 GR starter? Most of the aftermarket GR starters don't have tapped flanges, requiring the top nut be glued in place. Would like to use later Jag GR starter, but usually 'Applicable model years' doesn't include 1975. I would think a starter which fits a 1988 XJS would fit our stuff? But am eager to be educated!

 

check the following video for a similar starter removal in a 12 cylinder XJ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWt3b4iVEg

 

This is memory, and its been 25+ years since I did it on our S2, with the BW12 trans.

I lowered the trans mount assembly, undid the exhaust triangle joints, and let the rear drop about 6".

WATCH OUT FOR THE HEATER TAP as you lower the rear.

That gave me room to get a looooong socket extension bar, with a UniJoint end on it, to that top bolt.

Ours is RHD, so more crap in the way on that side, but NO cats down here back then, not sure on yours.

I simply dont remember the socket size, that is long gone from the grey matter.

The HE are 9/16 12 point, but thats all I remember.

 

Grant
The ordinary bellhousing bolts on the HE GM400 bellhousing are 9/16ths. But the top starter bolt is 7/16ths and of course is a 12 point bolt as you mention. (I did have to check my thread post number 10 to be sure!) Ain't old age a dream...
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ox-xjs-221677/

 

Yep,

I'm still waiting for Amazon to deliver that wrist GPS that tells me where I need to go, AND tells me WHY I am here, must be a supply issue.

Memory again???. the BW 12 is a separate bell housing, and that real dim voice is whispering hex head bolt.

It will be clear when we get told when its out.

 

I'm told that's what Wives are for.

 

Elinor,

Yes, mine was, but since the stroke, not so flash.

Life moves on, and the laughs daily are priceless.

Now I have forgotten what we talking about, had to scroll up to get the brain back in gear, oh dear.

 

Thank you all.

Yet, despite all I paid for this advice, I remain unsatisfied.

Jose, I had watched that video. Unless I'm watching the edited 'PG' version, at 5:11 in the vid he's disconnected the starter wires. At 5:12 the starter is out. At 8:14 we're looking into the starter hole, can see the teeth on the flexplate. At 8:15 new starter is in. So... no revealing how the heck he got to that top bolt.

My engine is now hanging on an engine support bar, front suspension lowered. I thought about lowering engine + trans from front. But that concept probably contains some surprisingly unhappy events.

I still welcome any feedback on switching to a gear reduction starter. Jaguar apparently made their V12 starter a gear reduction in the late '80's? These are expensive, but have threaded flange holes same as original. Aftermarket gear reduction V12 starters are cheaper, but have threadless flange holes. Requires nut glued (or otherwise affixed) to forward side of flange. Right next to rear of solenoid housing. I cannot find confirmation the 1988 - on Jag starter fits a BW trans and meshes with pre-HE flexplate teeth.

Am surprised no one made a hole through the transmission tunnel. Sealed with a plug "for next time!"

In any case I believe it foolish to reinstall this starter. But would like its replacement to be an upgrade.

 

As I mentioned, lower the rear, watching the heater tap .,AND the fan blade in the shroud (forgot that one since I run Efans on all the V12's). The trans will need to drop about 6". and rest the mount on a brick etc.

Long, mine it 30", socket extension, Uni Joint at the socket end, socket on that Joint, wiggle it up past the trans, and onto the bolt head.

Also, as mentioned, we be RHD so more shiiit it the way, and the starter will NOT fall out of ours without lowering the cradle, so 100% an R Rated task.

The PreHE and HE Monster starter is the same unit, so flex plate specs, and drive pinion specs are the same.

Reductions??, never got involved, the Monster has never failed me, ever.

Still cannot remember the bolts specs, but not hard to sort in the real world, its one or the other, or maybe the other one, and a beer or 2 inbetween choices.

My old S Type and MK X had that access hole, SWEET, and those bolts were 9/16AF, so maybe the V12 be the same.

 

after all the trouble I would definitely go for a GR starter. Contact this company:
​​​​​https://www.classiccarperformance.co...s/jaguarxkev12

 

That's what I *Love* about this place, the Exacting instructions leaving plenty of room for the individual's experience!

 

Appreciate the tips.

Grant, I comprehend lowering rear of trans. Fan is off. Will review heater hoses. As the engine is now 'floating' on engine beam chains, wasn't too enthused about detaching trans as well. Having whole mess loose makes me Very Afraid.

Not a fan of brick supports, but can't say I don't use stacks of 4 x 4's on occasion. Seems on Jags the best place to lift is also the best place for jackstand!

I'm more on the whiskey/bourbon/rye spectrum than beer. But CANNOT reward self during work sessions! Otherwise my already glacial progress would shudder to a stop. Or, would time actually run backwards? (May make an exception when this starter is off, tho.)

Thanks, Jose for link.

Yes, Elinor, whatever happens here Grant can say "Told you so, mate!"

 

More of a general XJ Series 2 observation & question.

WOW! What a forest of little plates & covers! On/next to/under EVERYTHING! As well as the little 'tin' covers, some sort of molded fibre (asbestos?) covers near anything hot. Or warm. Or...

Electrical studs and solenoid on starter covered by a molded fiber 'box'. Between right side of trans and frame is large fiber sheet.

And space between top of trans & tunnel is filled with ancient foam rubber?

Somehow none of this is mentioned or covered in the manuals, guides or vids I've viewed.

Do you folks actually reinstall all this stuff? Appears to be very complete system of water & salt traps.

 

Welcome to our word, and the alcohol influenced repair procedures.

The manuals were written mainly for Jag repair shops, and they had insight other than the books, my experience from working there. Privealeged info possibly fits well, as a plot to keep the car coming to them, "coz they know the tricks".
That has dropped off a lot now, and Main Dealers (or whatever your market calls them) mostly dont want to know any Jaguar that is more than 5 years out of warranty.

I replaced most of those "things" on the S2 cars, modified some for better type product as I went. Not as bad as it appears, and they do serve a purpose, sometimes not clearly obvious, but remember, Jaguar basically had NO money (Leyland days), so a $ saved here and there would have been important. To omit those "things" could have saved a lot per car, but they did not, so I live with the awkwardness.

BUT

All my early cars, 6 and 12, are sooooo easy to work on compared to the later stuff I now run, by a very loooong shot.

On the earlier thread, it takes me a long time to get from vertical to prone, so as to work on the car/s. I have a tray with MANY spanners etc on it, on the ground, so when I finally get down there, I can stay down there, until I am done. That tray gets more things in it as I get older, trust me. Might need a 2nd tray soon.

 

Grant,
All,

That boat-anchor size starter is out. Once thicket of plates & shields was removed, able to access top bolt through trans - body gap at upper right rear. Top bolt 9/16ths. I'm fortunate it wasn't the spline nut some run into.

I was really thrilled when both bolts were pulled, only to find the same starter pinion - flexplate bind which froze the crankshaft was also doing a great job hanging onto the starter. Had to reinstall both bolts 3/4 way in & tap on them until starter walked out.

While starter pinion teeth are chewed up, flexplate teeth look great.

SOMEBODY earned a cocktail tonight!

Thanks, all!

 

Well bloody done.

You may need these in the future.