Good evening,

I am about to complete a major overhaul (*) of my 1992 Daimler Double Six SAJDDALW4CM486688 and I seek advice: which (OEM or aftermarket) and how much fluids/filters ?

• Engine oil
• Brake oil
• Transmission oil
• Rear differential oil
• Power Assisted Steering oil
• Cooling liquid (Etheline glycol?)
• Air filter
• Oil Filter (I read best only OEM as others cavitate?)
• Fuel filters x 2
• Spark Plugs x 12
• Grease rear axle 10 points (Greg in France update - thank you)

(A/C is being rebuilt, so new gas will be provided)

Am I forgetting anything? Thanks in advance for your time and sharing your expertise.

Tommaso


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(*) if anyone is interested, I overhauled these systems replacing with new parts.

1. Air Conditioning complete new system from Fen Air
   1. compressor
   2. evaporator
   3. filter
   4. condensator
   5. expansion valve
   6. joints and pipes, etc
2. Power Assisted Steering. New:
   1. Pump
   2. High pressure pipes
   3. Steering rack
3. Cooling. New system from NAR
   1. Aluminium high-performance radiator
   2. Aluminium twin electric fan cowl
   3. Electric Fans (SPAL)
   4. In hose thermostat with adjustable temperature setting
   5. Complete hoses kit
   6. Expansion tank
   7. Water pump
   8. Thermostats from KWE Cars
4. Fuel system, new from KWE Cars
   1. Overhaul 12 injectors and high pressure piping
   2. tanks x 2
   3. pumps x 2
   4. New throttle links
   5. New AAV
5. Engine:
   1. head gaskets
   2. bearings: main and conrod
   3. timing chain and tensioners
   4. service belts and tensioners
   5. water pump
   6. oil pump
6. Front and rear suspensions and bushings
7. New paint (black with red line) + 4 clear coats on top
8. Brightwork polished (some re-chromed)

 

Might I suggest you go into the "sticky" section of this forum.
I think you will find all of the information you need in that area.

 

Good list, Tommaso. DO not forget to grease the rear axle. 10 points to grease.

 

My experience in over 25 years of driving old Jags is that these engines do not require anything exotic.

Filters: Any of the common brands will be fine. Mann, Bosch, Baldwin, Unipart, AC Delco, etc.

Engine oil: Often debated. For the v12 most guys use 20/50; some switch to 10/40 in cold weather. Any name brand engine oil will do. There is some concern about the lack of zinc in modern oils....easily assuaged by using a zinc additive. Synthetic oil versus dino oil is a decision to be made. Your choice.

Transmission oil: I use Dexron/mercon as it is commonly available.

Power steering: I use Dex/Mercon ATF. Or Dexron ATF. Or Type F ATF. The power steering system doesn't seem to care much.

Brake fluid: Any name brand DOT3 or DOT4. If you anticipate severe condition you can research specific fluids with high boiling points and so forth.

Diff oil: Any name brand 80/90 will work. You'll need a limited slip additive. Or.....look for gear oil formulated for limited slip diffs. The label on the bottle will indicate.

Coolant: "Old fashioned green antifreeze" is fine. I use the house brand from my local auto parts store.

Spark plugs: Sorry, memory block. NGK BP7ES maybe? Something like that. Others here will remember.

If the mood strikes you can take a deep dive into the specifications of every fluid and filter. Many enthusiasts do, and I won't disparage doing so. Lots of time involved and, often, considerable extra expense in purchasing. My position, personally, is that the car is unlikely to realize any tangible, measurable, long term benefit from doing so. The owner, on the other hand, might benefit greatly from knowing he is feeding his Jaguar a very carefully chosen diet. I call it the "feel good" factor. And there's nothing wrong with that. For some, it's part of the fun of the old car hobby.

I say this as a person who, once upon a time, fussed mightily over such things but who, eventually, found it a bit exhausting .

Anyhow, it sounds like you have a wonderful project going !

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks Doug,

You were very thorough! But I am still at the stage where I like fussing and stressing to get that "feel good" factor. But, if others, like you, feel that it's unnecessary to follow Jaguar recommendations, and the specs on generic brands is fine, then I am happy to take the advice of this Forum. Anyone, is it OK to use these? I heard that non OEM oil filter can make noise if it cavitates.

Thank you to Greeg, I updated the list,

Thank you Bill, I was looking in the stickies, but I couldn't find this list. Please, would you mind a link me to the post?

Tommaso

 

The original Jaguar recommendations from the 80s refer to products that are no longer available in their original form....or at least more difficult to find. And, possibly, not as good as modern day products.

I've not heard of the oil filter cavitation problem, personally, so I can't comment on that. Over the decades I've used all the usual brands, including Jaguar, and nothing actually bad has happened. I'm not sure how or if the driver would know if there was a filter cavitation problem. Cavitation is normally associated with pumps, I think. But the science of hydraulics and fluid dynamics is one of many things I cannot comment on with any authority

A long known V12 quirk is a moaning noise from the engine for a few moments after a cold start. A Jaguar TSB attributes this to oil pump or water pump cavitation (I can't remember which) and declares that no harm is being done and attempts at correction are not needed.

Cheers
DD

 

Indeed often debated! However, I do know a tribologist ( a Lubrication Engineer), who called 20W50 "sludge" and asserts there is no good reason to use it. The recommendation instead is to use the lowest first number available, either 0 or 5, and match the second number to whatever Jaguar recommends - probably either 30 or 40, demanding on the ambient temperature.

The reason for the low first number is that represents the viscosity of the oil when cold. You want that as low as possible to ensure that the oil flows when cold and on startup gets from the sump up into the engine where it is needed as soon as possible. Most engine wear occurs on startup, so you want the oil in the engine fast to minimize wear. 20/50 is about the worst possible choice to minimize startup wear, simply because it is so slow to flow.

I would pick an oil made by a major oil company - Shell, Chevron,Total, Mobil etc, rather than a third party blender, such as Lucas, Royal Purple, RedLine etc, simply for the additives. The majors are the ones with the R&D budget to develop the additives that are essential and they patent protect them. That means that the technology available to others is at least 20 years behind, because they can only use the additives that have expired patents. Most major oil companies do sell additives to other blenders, but they won't sell their latest additives. You'll get a better oil from a Major oil company.

 

@ Doug

Again, thank you!

I am convinced that they can be better, yes. However, not always. I suffered problems with a non mineral oil in a Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud. There is a whole thread on this topic on the RREC forum, how some "better" oils, in some systems, can cause problems. I do not know if this is the case with a 1992 Daimler and that is why I would like to hear more opinions. I am not belittling or diminishing your proven and valuable experience, please, accept my apologies if it came across as such: I recognize that I am incompetent in this matter!

A youtuber (Living with a Classic) and KWE Garage in England experienced cavitation noises in the filter. Again, I am not sufficiently competent to have an opinion, so I am asking this forum. You are way more competent than I am!!

Again, Doug, thank you! I apprecite both your time and your experience! I am looking at generic brands, unless others can chime in with different recommendations.

 

@ Jagboi64

A very interesting comment, re using the lowest possible viscosity for the first number, thank you. I wonder if that would hold true also in very hot climates, as southern Italy?

Would you consider Castrol to be major oil company?

Can you contribute with comments about newer formulations' oils damaging engine components?

 

All's well! No offense taken and no apology needed, I assure you.

One of the great things about choosing a Jag as a hobby car is the great owner support via the internet. There are many experienced and informed owners out there with good advice and opinions, happily shared. Personally, I think we'd have 50% fewer old Jags surviving to day without this support system.

I've had four oldie Jags since 1997. I use them as my daily transportation....but they've been my hobby cars as well. By now I've probably racked-up 250-300K miles of Jag ownership experience and I've discovered that they're nowhere near as difficult to own as I once thought. When it comes to my opinions and advice, well, I generally try to uncomplicate and demystify Jaguar ownership. I suspect this is often interpreted as nonchalance.....which is almost true, but not quite .

My broader opinion, though, is that the car hobby is supposed to be enjoyable. There are many paths to achieve that. I won't disparage any of them.

Cheers
DD

 

Yes, I would say to use the low first number in any climate. It's all about getting oil up into the engine in the first 30 seconds after startup. You would adjust the second number ( the hot viscosity) to compensate for any climate conditions. Although, with an effective cooling system, the oil temperature shouldn't rise above the coolant temperature, as I believe the European cars have an oil cooler.

Castrol is made by BP, so yes. I wouldn't necessarily seek it out in preference to something else that is locally available.

I have not heard anything about newer formulations damaging engine components. There was much hype when the zinc was removed, but it has been replaced by other components. The zinc was always the last line of defense when the oil film had failed for some reason, so as long as you're engine is in good health ( which it appears to be from the amount of work you are doing) you will be fine.

 

I agree 100%. I can confirm that I bought a Daimler Double Six after a very positive 6 months lurking on this forum. The amount and quality of support is unique. I regularly frequent also the RREC and Lancia Forums and there is no where near as much friendly, very proficient and very useful advice.

If there were a CEO or Company President to write to, to thank for the "service" received here, I would do so in a heartbeat. The amount of time, money and, more important, mistakes that I have saved by frequenting this Forum, far exceeds any expectation.

I don;t know who is the forum owner, but he should start charging a fee, as RREC and Lancia do... but, then, perhaps it is so good, exactly because it is free: passion has no price.

 

Where can I find a user manual for my 1992 V12 Daimler, with all the specifications for correct coolant, oils, plugs and filters?

Doug gave me an excellent list (below), but I am still in my early stages of jaguarite and, so, I still like to fuss a lot and I am in the mood for a deep dive into the specifications of every fluid and filter for the "feel good" factor.

Is there a user manual, and a service manual, in PDF or a link?

 

Ascanio:

I have owned 8 of the 1992 V12 cars as well as many of the earlier model year V12 cars. The advice given here by Doug (DD) and Craig (Jagboi) is absolutely correct. And while I completely understand where you are on the V12 ownership slope (having spent years there myself) I can tell you that these cars are both very sturdy and very forgiving - there is no need at all to “overthink” the use of any of the fluids/oils or filters for these cars - any reputable brand will work fine. I generally used 20w50 in my engines but Jagboi’s comments about the cold viscosity figure are valid. If I were to have another V12 I would use a somewhat lighter oil, perhaps a 15w40. But in warm climates a 20w50 oil works well (that said, the issue of quick lubrication at start up is a significant one).
By the way, one thing to note about the V12: it is perfectly normal for your oil pressure gauge to read almost at zero on the metric gauge when the engine is hot and idling at 650 rpm or so (that is, when idling at proper operating temperature). This low reading can be alarming if you are not aware of the way engine temperature, the oil pressure gauge and the pressure sensor play together in these engines. You can, in fact determine when your engine is properly and efficiently warmed up, not by the coolant temperature gauge (which should always register just around 90, or a hair’s breadth under 90) but by the idling oil pressure!

 

Ok, ok, ok ...

... I'll bully myself into listening to more experienced owners, as yourself, and our friends whom you mentioned. I'll follow the advice not to fuss to much, and quench my OCD impulses to delve into all that.

However, the transporter who brought the car to Italy from Denmark lost all documents & manual (that's for another thread). So I still need to find a manual, and a service book (that I want to send to Denmark to have it re-stamped). Can anyone help me locate them?

Also, Dog was unsure regarding the spark plugs for the 1992 V12 can anyone confirm the type?

 

ngk bpr7es

 

V12, 5.3, HE series III (1992) fluids, oils and filters:

>OILS/GREASE:
Engine: 20W50 + zinc additive (*) Shell, Chevron,Total, Mobil, Castrol
Brake: Any DOT3 or DOT4
Transmission: Dexron or Mercon
Power Steering: Dexron ATF or Mercon ATF [Type F ATF]
Differential: 80/90 + limited slip additive or any gear oil formulated for limited slip diffs
Rear Axle: axle grease. Follow garage manual for 10 points grease
(*) for cold climate regions it is recommended 10W40 but, BEST, would be 0W50 for warm regions and 0W40 for cold regions, if you can find it

> FILTERS:
Engine oil: any brand
Fuel: any brand (x 2)

> OTHER FLUIDS:
Coolant: GREEN type (Ethylene glycol)

> SPARK PLUGS
NGK: BPR7 ES (x 12)


Can anyone contribute to this post by listing the quantities required in case of full flush, please?

 

Engine oil: 10L
Power steering - probably about a litre
Transmission: typically 3-4 L, which is about 1/3 of the total fluid. Only the pan can be drained, as the torque converter doesn't have a drain.
Brake fluid: Depends on how well the flush goes and how much air is in the system. Usually 1-2L
Differential: about 1.5L
Coolant: depends if the block can be drained. If so, about 10L, if just the radiator probably 5L.

If you have a choice for engine oil filter, I would get either the Jaguar original ( part EBC9658) or a Mann. Nothing else.

For transmission fluid that the original spec was Dexron III, Dexron VI is also backwards compatible with the III spec. The internals are pure General Motors, and Dexron is a fluid specification developed by GM. Mercon is basically the same thing, only developed by Ford. Each name is a trademark of the respective companies, so that's why you'll often see bottles listing compatability with both. It's the same oil, different name.

 

Thank you, Craig,

Following the advice to look for the lowest winter number, I found these:
https://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united...des/5w-50.html
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...1-racing-0w-50
https://eneoseurope.com/products/eneos-x-prime-0w-50/

Which one seems more appropriate?

And thank you for the oil filter recommendation. I had seen it mentioned twice before.

Tommaso

 

Don't get the Mobil racing oil, they are not designed for use with catalytic converters an oxygen sensors and most of them will poison the catalyst and O2 sensor in short order.
Racing oils are actually a simple service to design for. Cold starting isn't a concern, and the oil only needs to last one race and then it is changed. It's service life is hours, not months or years. The oil is always hot, so there is no need for additives to combat water, as the water created by combustion is hot enough to be boiled off, and there isn't any condensation created by the daily temperature changes. Similarly, the acid byproducts created by combustion isn't a concern, because the oil is drained so soon, and race engines are often rebuilt between races anyway. A oil for regular cars needs buffers to neutralize the acids, and it needs additives to resist nitration and oxidation. None of these are a concern for a race engine, so a oil for a modest passenger car is actually a more demanding service for the oil.

I used the Mobil 1 0W40 in my V12 and it was happy. Personally, I think a 50 weight is too heavy, as a heavier oil is thicker and that creates heat and friction in the beaings.
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...bil-1-fs-0w-40
This one should be fine too:https://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united...ab_0w-40-a3-b4

The usual reason that so many British car owners think they need 20w50 comes from the original Mini. That shared the gearbox oil with the engine oil, and the gears quickly sheared the old generation viscosity improvers; so you ended up at the viscosity of the base oil, which was about 30. Back then, a 10W30 would have sheared back to a 10 weight, which was too thin. 20w50 was a stopgap measure to compensate for poor oil technology in the 1960's, and that is no longer a valid concern.

If you want a quality level to follow, use any product APPROVED against Mercedes Benz 229.5. (NOT meets the requirements of). They physically test each candidate oil prior to approval and have an arduous test regime. There are many to choose from.
https://operatingfluids.mercedes-ben...sheet/229.5/en