Hi All, my 85 4.2 sat around a long time with the previous elderly owner. I did a few little things at home to get it running and then took it over to my mechanic for an MOT inspection and for a couple of ramp jobs. But on the way the brakes faded and I lost servo assistance, and there was a burning smell from the rears on arrival (c. 10 miles gentle driving). And also there was some fluid leak around the engine bay in the vicinity of the reservoir that could have been some brake fluid.

The fluid was likely very old, so I thought could have boiled over if sticky caliper got hot or maybe it's ruined the seals. He's attempted a fluid change but says he's not been able to loosen the rear nipples to do it properly.

So I'm wondering - is there a known issue the bleed nipples or a way around to get them to open?

My other worry is a sticky caliper, though the rear wheels could spin round a bit when up on the ramp. Brake pedal pressure returned after it cooled down as well.

The pads and discs are all old but was hoping not to have major spend before even getting to drive the car further than the garage! How many hours should it be to drop a rear suspension if I need to rebuild calipersetc?

Thanks a lot, Al.

 

I'm afraid when I read "sat around a long time with the previous elderly owner", I thought, "this guy is now going to have to do some serious work on this car". So it seems to have proved, as the rear suspension and brakes are a notorious neglect area due to the inaccessibililty of the assembly.
If it were me, I'd budget for a total removal of the rear subframe complete with diff and brakes for an inspection and replacement of worn-out components. It is almost inevitable one or more of the pistons in the rear calipers are seized as will be the handbrake calipers. I had to do this on my 1980 in the early 90s. Reconned calipers, (incl handbrake), did the job. A few years previously, I had replaced the rear wheel bearings and drive shaft UJs as this doesn't need the subframe dropping. At the same time I replaced the subframe mounts, which are of the Silentboc type and not long-lived, plus the radius arm bushes, and also the rear dampers.

The problem you are going to run into is the shear scale of the number of parts that will need replacing in order to get the car into a reasonable state for reliable driving. This will not be cheap ! Doing this took me many years !! I owned the car for 14 years and there were still one or two jobs to do when I sold it.

 

Since it sat for a long time, you can almost count on the hydraulic rear calipers having stuck pistons. Rebuild them with new pistons, or exchange them for remanufactured. Since your calipers have stuck bleeders, I'd go with remanufactured.
THe rubber brake hose between the body and the suspension cage is also likely to have swelled shut due to age. When that happens, they tend to act as a one way valve, allowing pressure to the calipers, but not releasing when the brake pedal is released.
I'd suspect your handbrake calipers are also frozen. They can be disassemled, freed up and lubricated if they aren't too rusty. The parking brake cables may also need replacement if they are frozen from rust.
Expect to put on new brake rotors. It would be false economy to do all that work and not renew them at the same time.
​​​​​​It's important to flush bleed the rear calipers often. They are right next to the exhaust and don't get a lot of cooling, so brake fluid takes a beating. There are remote bleeder kits available that allow bleeding from the wheel well area, so they are more likely to get bled.

 

Al,
Greg and jal1234 each paint disappointing pictures to someone with a "new" car, but they both are accurate. You or your mechanic have a big job ahead with inspection, repair, and replace in the rear sub-frame and almost surely the front sub-frame. If you really want to drive your car more than 1/2 hour without breaking down all the time, bite the bullet. Remember, car parts are just like teeth, they don't fix themselves, they just get worse.

On a happier note, I think you'll find lots of help on this Forum.

Dave

 

Penetrating oil, patience, and prayer.

But I'm afraid I'm on on board with the others here.

The car is 36 years old, has been sitting a long time, and (I'll wager) still has a lot of the same parts it had when it was born. Bite the bullet and plan on a full brake system overhaul from stem-to-stern. Do it all, do it, once, do it right....and you can forget about for many years to come. The alá carte method of system repairs just prolongs the misery. Plus you'll feel a lot more comfortable driving it knowing that the brakes are 100%

Cheers
DD

 

Dropping the rear end out is not such a big job that it cannot be handled DIY. You do need sufficient space in the workshop to work around the car, and often the most difficult part is removing the exhaust system that weaves around the subframe. Once this is done with a good jack, the rest is easy. Now that my exhaust system is easily separated, I can have the rear subframe out and back in the car, all operational in less than 4 hours. (as long as my wife is around to help bleed the brakes)

 

When I had a similar problem many years ago the garage sent the car to have an inspection hatch installed professionally under the back seat. Not had to access the brakes since but might be a consideration?

 

Malcolm - Would love to see a pic of the installed hatch if you have one!

Bill

 

My S3 E-Type had two, one for each side. Worked great. About 6 to 8 inches square. Can't see why they could not by built into an XJ. Ian

 

Sounds like a worthwhile project to cut two of them in there and make up plates. What kind of work can be done on the brakes and the E-brakes with this top access?

Bill

 

hi Al and welcome to the forum. yes, the proper and correct solution has been presented and at the risk of sounding like a hack, here's what i did to gain access to the bleeders. lots of pb blaster repeatedly over a few days and patience.



again, i can't stress using your rust buster of choice with many applications over a couple of days to any bolt/nut. i removed the rear shock/spring assemblies to get a long 10mm spanner onto the bleeder. i was even able to get a small map canister in the space to get a little heat. maybe the rear calipers will loosen up after you get the valves loosened and someone pumps the air out on ALL bleeders while you do the loosen/tighten job. if this fails then you can always pursue the drop and rebuild option. also, there's a young guy (xj jesse) that posts how to videos on youtube. he got a good one showing how to replace the pads. best of luck, ren

 

It is also very important to renew the flexible to the rear axle. Apart from the safety aspect, this fails internally with age and can act like a one-way valve and hold on the brakes. However, I completely agree with many above comments, that you need to overhaul the brakes entirely.

 

Thanks for all your comments, I would like to have a go at this project myself, and parts prices are generally reasonable for a thoroughbred car I think, but I only have a single width double length garage, and no ramp! I could dismantle in the driveway and then cover the car and work in the garage on the parts on a trolley?

How high do you have to lift the car to drop the cage? Does it need a ramp?

Does anyone know of any videos on YouTube of dropping the rear axle? I’ve found xjjesse’s and livingwithaclassic useful so far, it’s a project car for learning on after all, and the satisfaction of solving stuff with the help of you guys is far better than paying a mechanic!

thanks, Al

 

Here's a couple of pictures. The jack stands are 6-ton (per pair) and this was as high as needed to remove the rear sub-frame with a floor jack from the rear of the car. My car stayed on these jack stands for over 2 1/2 years will rebuilding the car. Solid as a rock. As you can see, my shop is a reasonable size, but it's a little over half full of other stuff. I was able to completely rebuild the car, move it to dry storage, and then assemble the engine, push the car back in the shop and install the engine/trans. A one car garage will work.

Dave


You won't find this picture in any shop manual, but if you do all the work be yourself sometimes you need to make your own judgement on what is acceptable.

An engine hoist is very helpful when you have to move heavy stuff.

 

Raise the rear of the car and support it on jack stands. Buy or rent a motorcycle/ATV jack. Use it to support the IRS assembly while you disconnect everything and then safely lower it to the floor. Use the same jack to put the IRS back in. Easier to balance the IRS on one of those than a standard floor jack.

Second on replacing all of the flex hoses. The soft pedal suggests your brake master is probably shot or on the way out. Those plastic reservoirs are thin and will start cracking, especially after 36 years. Mine just packed it in this week.

 

Here is a thread that I posted some years ago. Removing XJ6 rear suspension. - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum
I have learned a lot since then, so here is some additional tips.
1. You can use a standard trolley jack but you need to balance the load well - make a timber piece a similar size to the tie plate to go between the jack and suspension.
2. Remove the shocks first. Replace them with two pieces of timber around 9" long drilled at each end. These serve the purpose of holding the lower wisbones clear of the floor and help reduce the weight and balance the load.
3. If you can, remove the radius arms from the rear suspension before. Note the special bolts that just clear the wishbone.
4. I have always made simple wooden trolleys for engines/suspension units etc. Some cheap castor wheels and a bit of timber. No need to buy fancy workshop type gear.
5. If you cannot separate the exhaust, do what you can and then drag the lot out with the suspension.

 

There are several YouTube videos on the suspension and brakes for the XJS. Except for portions of the rear exhaust removal, the process is identical. I recently did it on my XJS. I raised the rear of the car as much as I could, used a wooden cradle under the tie plate,and put my floor jack fairly far forward to balance the load for and aft. The assembly is surprisingly front heavy. I lowered it onto a pair of wheeled furniture dollys, and pulled it out from the side of the car. You don't have to have the rear of the car nearly as high if you roll it out from the side. I managed to get it out by myself, but had a friend help me out it back in. Without help, it's difficult to get everything lined up properly. I highly recommend help for both removal and installation. It is EXTREMELY heavy and awkward to handle.

​​​​​Drain your diff before you remove the suspension, as you will likely need to rotate the suspension onto its front or rear , and you don't want diff oil draining out thru the vent.

 

I would be interested in seeing a picture or two of your service hatches as well.
Thanks
Con

 

And would be really interested as to what work can be accomplished on the brakes through service hatches. Like, can brake pads be replaced? Can the parking brake pads be replaced? etc.

 

I can see where a hatch might be useful in replacing the brake pads as it would save having to crawl under the car. I'm not sure it would be of much help for other tasks.

As for the handbrake pads, well, the handbrakes calipers have to come off entirely for that...so you're still getting under the car even if the mounting bolts are accessed thru the hatch.

Cheers
DD