XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

Rebuild Saga (story time)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #41  
Old 02-16-2024, 02:50 PM
Harry Dredge's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 342
Received 87 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jagboi64
The bearings have a few score marks from dirt, but if those have been in there for 150,000 km that is excellent. The bore wear and wear of pistons to me looks like the pistons were actually tight, and that is contact wear. Piston slap is usually at the bottom of the skirt. I think your skirt-bore clearance was a little small originally - either that or it was driven hard and overheated and the pistons expanded more than intended.

At this point any damage has been done, you can probably put them back after a cleaning, making sure they go back in the bore they came out of. With the factory(?) hone marks I wouldn't bother doing anything to the bore, just give them a good cleaning and make sure they are dirt free, then reassemble when the time comes.

Are they factory pistons? Or has the engine been rebuilt before? If factory, you should see a factory part number stamped on the top and probably a grade letter.
Appreciate the added clarity on the torque converter thank you!

I believe these to be factory pistons, they have "G" stamped on the top plus the factory part number (C33088S - Which is 4.2 9:1 according to this forum thread) and "FRONT".
I do wonder if it's been apart before, there are several clues:

1. The rubber on the lower timing chain tensioner is glued on and not moulded.
2. The timing cover has the engine number written on it in pencil, not sure if that was factory behaviour, plus our un-moulded chain tensioner. Showing that might have been off.
3. One piston has the engine number in pencil on the side in the same hand writing.

If not factory behaviour, the reason (I can think of) to be labelling parts like this at the mechanics, would be if they were working on several of the same model at the same time. Maybe at the dealership perhaps.

The crank bearings are in worse condition, as below.
Theres one set that is deformed, from my reading it could be from detonation. Interesting that it's only one though. Maybe cylinders 3 and 4 were suffering from detonation? It doesn't look spun.
Or I thought perhaps that the oil feed to that bearing might not have been that great, that bearing certainly more worn than the others, its also the middle one, so maybe it wears more? Dunno.

I don't think the crank is ruined, I'll have it inspected by someone who knows. I didn't really want to grind it.

The other thing that I've found is that the top ring side clearance is 0.18mm or there about's, much more than the 0.038 to 0.089mm specified in the manual.
The second rings are consistently about 0.076mm which is within spec.
If I was to guess, perhaps the tops rings take more vertical force and perhaps get flattened out over time leading to the increased clearance. - But again I'm not qualified to make such a guess.
Measuring the ring gives a thickness of 1.91mm, giving me 0.09mm of lost thickness, 0.18mm (side clearance) minus 0.09mm = 0.9mm of clearance with a new ring (2mm) thick.
So I guess the ring land is fine.




 
  #42  
Old 02-20-2024, 02:24 AM
Harry Dredge's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 342
Received 87 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

I've been reasonably busy, with some progress.

The head is actually finished now, I've set the valve clearance to spec. I've got just one intake valve at 0.015 instead of 0.014, which I think should be ok, it's less than half the width of a human hair.
So that intake valve will enter the chamber 1 thou less than it should, I don't think it's worth taking the cams out again just to chase that one thou. Tell me if I should.

The sump has been in a cleaning tank for the price of one box of Coke Zero, no cracks or anything.

I've managed to remove the sludge trap plugs in the crank by way of ye olde hunk of wood and a 750mm breaker bar with minimal effort. The plugs take a 1/2" inhex.
Crank in block.
Ye olde wood jamming.
Big breaker bar with care.

Theres not a heap of sludge in there, not enough to block anything, but it was starting to get close to the bearing feed.
Interestingly enough, the sludge is light grey with a putty like texture and magnetic, which I guess you'd expect. Probably just tiny grains of metal worn from rotating parts.
I'll clean those out by hand and verify that all the internal plumbing is clear, probably by poking a straw in there and testing that air blows through good.

On my journeys I found out that the older crank plugs were punched on the edge (to lock) 3 to 4 times, where as the one in this 1980 XJ6 was only punched once per, so I didn't have to muck around with using a chisel to remove the punches to get the plugs out. Which apparently is what you might have to do with the older ones.
Anyhow, I was very glad because I got scared when I was reading about the trouble people were having with them.

Uhh hmm, oh yes, and I took some measurements of the crank main bearing journals with a dial gauge and the crank in the block held down with a few of the things that hold it down. Bearing caps.
Then rotated the crank and watched the gauge. I have no idea if this is a legitimate way of measuring for ovality but I did it anyway. - Ill get it checked by a pro too. Probably need a polish yet.
All were within 0.7 thou, other than the one with the bad bearing, that was 1.9 thou max. Which I think is not with in tolerance.

Then I promptly put the crank into the bbq for storage (for lack of a better place, it's coated in oil and wrapped up good).
You can put this down to Kiwi things, we make do.

I'm also working on the AAV, or the extra air valve. I did a bunch of reading and found out that the guys over on the Porsche forum have all the same issues with them as we do.
So I've learnt a few things, they are sort of serviceable, in a way.
It should measure 33 Ohms on the plugs, or 22 Ohms, they changed at some point, SO many people asking why theirs is 22 and not 33, so thats why.
You drill out the aluminium (AL-YOU-MIN-E-UM HAHA) rivet, and it pops right open.
Then you are faced with the bimetallic strip, with a small heater wrapped around it (you could fix the wires by opening it in this manner) and a little shutter.

Now, with time this little bimetallic strip gets a bit tired and doesn't bend as far any more, and thus doesn't open or close the flap as well as it used to.
I have read of people trying to bend it carefully in the direction they want with some success and then some also breaking it.

So, the alternative is this. You either add or remove material to the part of the shutter that the strip pushes on.
Adding should close it more, so if you have too much air when warm, you add material to move the shutter more closed. - I've seen a small nut sort of screwed on and glued that apparently worked well.
If you have the opposite problem, not enough air at cold start you would have to remove material to make the flap more open. - But remember you can do that with your foot too.
BUT you also lose some open or closed-ness at the other extreme of what you're trying to fix.

I wouldn't muck with it much to be honest, but it is possible. I have simply made mine "serviceable" by replacing the 4 rivets with M4 machine screws.
Mine doesn't close enough, so I might try to adjust it to close fully at the same temperature the thermostat opens, and by doing so, lose a little air on a cold start.
Once the thermostat is open, I think dropping the idle down to normal should be fine.

More about this thingy, it should take 2 or so minutes to mostly close with 12v applied. Popping it in the freezer should close it.
and don't forget that the coolant rail should heat it as well as the heater coil, so a slow coil might not be too much of an issue.

Heres the crank in the BBQ:



 

Last edited by Harry Dredge; 02-21-2024 at 01:53 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Harry Dredge:
LnrB (02-20-2024), yachtmanbuttson (02-20-2024)
  #43  
Old 02-20-2024, 11:18 PM
Jagboi64's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 4,873
Received 3,195 Likes on 2,106 Posts
Default

The valve clearances are fine, don't worry about a thou. I think the official spec is 0.014-0.016", there is a small tolerance. You'll never notice any difference.
 
The following 2 users liked this post by Jagboi64:
Greg in France (02-21-2024), Harry Dredge (02-21-2024)
  #44  
Old 02-21-2024, 10:38 PM
Harry Dredge's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 342
Received 87 Likes on 48 Posts
Default Front Subframe bushes

Originally Posted by Jagboi64
The valve clearances are fine, don't worry about a thou. I think the official spec is 0.014-0.016", there is a small tolerance. You'll never notice any difference.
Haha cheers, thats good advice thanks. Needed someone to make me feel better about it.
My XJ6 Series 3 calls for 0.012 - 0.014.


It's been a bit of a silly day, I took the day off work because I'm sick as a dog, which apparently didn't stop me working on getting this done. It wasn't fun but it worked.

Front subframe bushing day, I learnt a few things.

Firstly, if your front subframe bushings have been replaced with URO parts bushes, I'm pretty sure the outer ring required for poly bushes is slightly too small. Which you'll see as you read on.

The big nuts came off easy with a 750mm breaker bar, I followed the manual. Body on jack stands, front subframe supported by a trolley jack, lower slightly and remove bolts.
That was all quick and easy, where we go wrong is, once you get out the URO parts bushes, you find out that there is no removable outer ring, and that its probably been thrown away.

Then we get silly, I decided I would use the outer ring from the URO parts bush, but the rubber is glued on, so then much mangelation is required to remove the rubber.
I battled them for a while, got annoyed and very irresponsibly lit them on fire and got the ring clean of rubber that way (after removing 98% of the rubber). Which I feel bad about, but it's done now.

Then, I paid my dues by finding out that the outer rings are a little small, got one bush jammed and the edge folded over while pressing it in.
Long story short, I had to take them to the mechanic to get them to press it out, and press them back in.
With the end result that one bush has one sort of mangled side and the other a little bit of minor mangalation, It wont affect the performance but a stickler might fail the warrant of fitness for it.
In which case I'll just do it again without the ruining.

So thats the lesson, I think only the original jaguar outer rings are suitable for use with poly bushes, well just not URO parts ones that you have lit on fire.

Not tightened up, but in place.


This photo makes it look A LOT worse than it is, it's just the ridge thats torn off.
Theres no way its going to move sideways as it's locked in place with the large washers.
But yes, annoying.
 

Last edited by Harry Dredge; 02-21-2024 at 10:47 PM.
  #45  
Old 02-22-2024, 04:32 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,563
Received 9,373 Likes on 5,494 Posts
Default

Harry, why not use OEM bushes?

 
The following 2 users liked this post by Greg in France:
Harry Dredge (04-01-2024), LnrB (02-22-2024)
  #46  
Old 02-22-2024, 09:42 AM
Jagboi64's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 4,873
Received 3,195 Likes on 2,106 Posts
Default

I've not heard anything good about rubber parts made by Uro, so like Greg, I would be using the OEM bushes. It's a job I wouldn't want to be doing again soon.
 
The following 3 users liked this post by Jagboi64:
Greg in France (04-01-2024), Harry Dredge (04-01-2024), Thorsen (04-01-2024)
  #47  
Old 02-22-2024, 10:10 AM
LnrB's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
Posts: 25,581
Received 9,384 Likes on 5,442 Posts
Default

Harry, here's the phone number for Jack Weston's personal line at David Manners Group LTD.
You'll need your country access number to international lines.

What you need are these: Genuine Metalastik brand, 4 examples of C8673.
The correct ones will look like this.

I do understand how much work you're already done to get this far, but you shouldn't need a press to install these bushes, and they Shouldn't look torn up like that when you're finished.

Look here, and here.

I don't mean to be discouraging, but I've done this the Wrong way in ignorance (which lasted almost 2 years and Never felt right) and the Right way which is still rock solid. There's nothing so disheartening as discovering all that time and expense ( not to mention Effort), was for nothing when you're front end starts Klunking and you almost can't keep it between the ditches!

PS: If you need those washers, David Bodger at EverydayXJ.com will have them in good condition for a Very reasonable price.
Best to have ALL the correct parts.
If ya gonna do it at all, Do it Right!
(';')
 

Last edited by LnrB; 02-22-2024 at 10:30 AM.
The following 3 users liked this post by LnrB:
Coventrywood (02-25-2024), Greg in France (02-23-2024), Harry Dredge (04-01-2024)
  #48  
Old 04-01-2024, 12:34 AM
Harry Dredge's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 342
Received 87 Likes on 48 Posts
Default

Thank you for the advice on the bushings, I might do those again I suspect. A bit annoying but ah well, best to do it right huh.

It's been a busy month with minimal jag time, but I've been hacking away at things as I can.

Front sub frame has come out, I'm tearing that down and with the help of a lot of wire brushing (on the battery grinder) I'm stripping back any rust and cleaning it up, then spraying it with a rust converting primer product.
Dupli-colour rust fix, it goes on clear as a rust converter and then turns into a nice black primer after 24 hours, it's quite neat and I think it'll do the job.
I'll follow that up with a coat of probably Rust-oleum, brought in a tin and sprayed on with my airless paint sprayer.
From the research the Rust-Oleum products seem to have good rust protection, and along with the rust converter I think that'll keep the paint on.
I guess I'll consider oil and petrol safe paint products too.

Oh and I also sanded and painted the front springs, with a brush like a real kiwi bloke. Which I would never ever advise as a suitable method.
I just had some rust paint that I wanted to use up and its as good as anything else.

Removal of the springs was with the threaded rod method.
3/8 UNF for threaded rod - 250 mm each - 4 of. and 12 nuts. 2 to jam nut on the end of each rod so you can wind it in and out, and one to keep pressure on the lower plate.
Swap out one bolt at a time for the rod, tighten the nut so as to replace the bolts hold down force.
Mark all rods so that you can tell that they aren't spinning out while you wind the tension off the spring.
Wind each nut a bit, evenly, until you have decompressed the spring.
I'll probably replace the entire set of rods etc before compression. The threads are looking tired after use and I don't want to die in a spring explosion.

It's a scary method, I'll be honest, but there was no moment at which it looked like it was going to go wrong.

What else, the block is at the machine shop now, to get a skim, a wash and the broken stud removed. No word from them yet. No doubt the bill is stacking up.
There's one piston bore that has a ridge where the rings stop at the top, so it's a bit worn, I think 4 thou.
I'm going to have the machine shop suggest what to do. I don't want to get too silly with the block.

Thats it!
Still working on it.
Lets get this done!

Cheers, H


 
The following 3 users liked this post by Harry Dredge:
Greg in France (04-01-2024), LnrB (04-01-2024), yachtmanbuttson (04-01-2024)
  #49  
Old 04-01-2024, 08:15 AM
yachtmanbuttson's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Palm City, Florida
Posts: 1,293
Received 506 Likes on 284 Posts
Default

And... whenever using this threaded rod method, be sure to grease the rods well. It will go a lot easier that way.
 
The following users liked this post:
Thorsen (04-01-2024)
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Oxidizer2k
XF and XFR ( X250 )
21
04-11-2022 07:13 AM
Some Day, Some Day
XJS ( X27 )
12
02-05-2018 09:35 PM
Ropariva
XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III
27
09-14-2017 07:58 AM
stevep10
S-Type / S type R Supercharged V8 ( X200 )
35
08-22-2017 05:53 PM
scatcat
XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III
5
02-23-2017 03:18 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Quick Reply: Rebuild Saga (story time)



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 AM.