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First time poster in the Series 1,2, and 3 section of the forum. I have always thought the series 3 is one of the most attractive sedan designs Jaguar has ever made. Kinda curious what years the series 3 XJ12's came to the US market. Are they complete nightmares for reliability?
Doug is correct about the model known as the "XJ12" : it went out of production in 1981. This car was almost identical to the XJ6 except for the power train.
It was replaced for the 1982 and later model years by the more luxurious Sovereign V12 and (even more luxurious) V12 Vanden Plas - which was in essence a Daimler Double Six.
After the 1985 model year Jaguar built the V12 Vanden Plas for Canada only; the calendar (note this!) year of greatest production was 1986 (which does not mean model year 1986) in which 627 were built - the lowest number was in 1990 and 1991.
The last year of production for the Sovereign V12 was 1991; the Daimler Double Six (for the UK, Germany and Japan) and the Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas for Canada continued in production to the end of 1992.
Jaguar has *no record of "model year" production for the V12 VDP*.
The reason? These cars for the Canadian market were taken either from the normal Jaguar Sovereign V12 line (the 1988 to 1991 cars inclusive) or from the Daimler Double Six line (up to the 1987 cars and again for the 1992 cars). The only production records Jaguar has for the V12 VDP is from the record of the number of V12 cars sold to Jaguar Canada in a given *calendar* year (which would obviously include cars built for two model years). Confused yet? Wait:
Jaguar does know how many of these cars were built for the 1992 model year! How? Because Jaguar Canada ordered precisely 100 fully-optioned Daimler Double Sixes in special colours (Black Cherry and Oyster) and trim (Doeskin piped in Barley), each one badged as a Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas, individually numbered and provided with a plaque giving the number of the car out of 100. Some of the 100 were built in 1991, the balance in 1992, by which time some of the Jaguar trim items were no longer in supply, the chrome twin stock mirror control being one example, but there were other anomalies. Several of the cars were delivered with Daimler items (driver's floor mat, engine decals...). The Canadian cars had certain Canada-only items, one being the bonnet-mounted washer nozzles.
Here is car # 92/100 in Black Cherry:
The number plaque: usually mounted as here on the console, but occasionally (and unfortunately) on the glovebox door where the holes drilled tended to crack the veneer: The Alpine radio unit incorporates the CD changer control. The changer was mounted in the trunk:
the very late mirror control - and can you make out the Daimler logo on the mat? this is car #92/100:
And the engine: see the Daimler decals on the cam covers - and note the ABS unit on the passenger-side of the engine bay - the battery on the 1992 cars sits in the trunk; note the blanked-off bit in the middle vanes of the air grille where the washer nozzle sits on the non-Canadian cars:
The battery and CD changer and cord for the coolant pre-heater unit on the Canadian cars:
One dealer, Jaguar-on-Bay in Toronto, the largest dealer in Canada was permitted to special-order the 1992 cars for clients in colours other than Oyster or Black Cherry. A few were in Regency Red Mica (example, #24/100) - note the mudflaps,
And a couple in Jaguar Black ( this is car #6/100):
a few in Jaguar Racing Green. The interiors were all identical in Doeskin with contrasting piping except for one in Green which did not have the contrasting piping, either as an "escapee" or by special client request. The cars in these other colours sold by dealers across Canada were ordered through the Toronto dealership.
Some of these last 100 cars are now in the US, and most of those passed through my hands. Car #100/100, potentially the most collectible, was sold new in Montreal by Decarie Motors. When it came to me it was so badly rusted under the Bondo that I declined to restore it. I passed it to another person in British Columbia who felt that he could save it. He cut out all the rust he could find and repainted. Six months later he sent me phots of new rust bubbles appearing where there had been no sign of corrosion before. Very sad. Here is the interior of car #100/100 - as you can see both leather and wood are very good....but the body was very bad:
Jaguar didn't sell the Series III V12 cars in the US except for a very few in 1979 due to CAFE fuel economy regulations. As far as I know they were distributed in other countries from 79-92, including Canada. Some of those from Canada or other countries have made their way to the US now. Forum member sov211 is the authority on the Series III V12 sedan if you want to search for his posts. I don't think Jaguar ever used the term XJ12 for the Series 3 cars. It was either a Vanden Plas V12, or Sovereign V12 or Daimler Double Six.
As far as reliability I don't think they're really any different than the XJ6 cars or any car of that age although the V12 presents some different challenges. Tons of info is available here and in the XJS forum on the V12 though. They are great to drive when sorted.
I don't know much about the Series 2 XJ12c except that I like the style a lot and there seem to be very few around, as least in the US.
Like so many older Jags most have been neglected and need a lot of rehab work. There's a learning curve; V12 has some unique requirements but virtually all faults and fixes are well known. Great cars for a DIY hobbyist. Ardent V12 owners enjoy the work. Others, not so much.
I use mine as a daily driver. It never fails me. But, it took time to get to that point.
I don't think Jaguar ever used the term XJ12 for the Series 3 cars. It was either a Vanden Plas V12, or Sovereign V12 or Daimler Double Six.
Actually "XJ12" was used on the Jaguar versions, at least in some markets...until 1982 or so. The car was, in essence, simply an XJ6 with a V12 engine. Circa 1982 the V12 was installed only in the upper-level models as you've mentioned. Of course, Daimler called them "Double Six" all along
Doug is correct about the model known as the "XJ12" : it went out of production in 1981. This car was almost identical to the XJ6 except for the power train.
It was replaced for the 1982 and later model years by the more luxurious Sovereign V12 and (even more luxurious) V12 Vanden Plas - which was in essence a Daimler Double Six.
After the 1985 model year Jaguar built the V12 Vanden Plas for Canada only; the calendar (note this!) year of greatest production was 1986 (which does not mean model year 1986) in which 627 were built - the lowest number was in 1990 and 1991.
The last year of production for the Sovereign V12 was 1991; the Daimler Double Six (for the UK, Germany and Japan) and the Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas for Canada continued in production to the end of 1992.
Jaguar has *no record of "model year" production for the V12 VDP*.
The reason? These cars for the Canadian market were taken either from the normal Jaguar Sovereign V12 line (the 1988 to 1991 cars inclusive) or from the Daimler Double Six line (up to the 1987 cars and again for the 1992 cars). The only production records Jaguar has for the V12 VDP is from the record of the number of V12 cars sold to Jaguar Canada in a given *calendar* year (which would obviously include cars built for two model years). Confused yet? Wait:
Jaguar does know how many of these cars were built for the 1992 model year! How? Because Jaguar Canada ordered precisely 100 fully-optioned Daimler Double Sixes in special colours (Black Cherry and Oyster) and trim (Doeskin piped in Barley), each one badged as a Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas, individually numbered and provided with a plaque giving the number of the car out of 100. Some of the 100 were built in 1991, the balance in 1992, by which time some of the Jaguar trim items were no longer in supply, the chrome twin stock mirror control being one example, but there were other anomalies. Several of the cars were delivered with Daimler items (driver's floor mat, engine decals...). The Canadian cars had certain Canada-only items, one being the bonnet-mounted washer nozzles.
Here is car # 92/100 in Black Cherry:
The number plaque: usually mounted as here on the console, but occasionally (and unfortunately) on the glovebox door where the holes drilled tended to crack the veneer: The Alpine radio unit incorporates the CD changer control. The changer was mounted in the trunk:
the very late mirror control - and can you make out the Daimler logo on the mat? this is car #92/100:
And the engine: see the Daimler decals on the cam covers - and note the ABS unit on the passenger-side of the engine bay - the battery on the 1992 cars sits in the trunk; note the blanked-off bit in the middle vanes of the air grille where the washer nozzle sits on the non-Canadian cars:
The battery and CD changer and cord for the coolant pre-heater unit on the Canadian cars:
One dealer, Jaguar-on-Bay in Toronto, the largest dealer in Canada was permitted to special-order the 1992 cars for clients in colours other than Oyster or Black Cherry. A few were in Regency Red Mica (example, #24/100) - note the mudflaps,
And a couple in Jaguar Black ( this is car #6/100):
a few in Jaguar Racing Green. The interiors were all identical in Doeskin with contrasting piping except for one in Green which did not have the contrasting piping, either as an "escapee" or by special client request. The cars in these other colours sold by dealers across Canada were ordered through the Toronto dealership.
Some of these last 100 cars are now in the US, and most of those passed through my hands. Car #100/100, potentially the most collectible, was sold new in Montreal by Decarie Motors. When it came to me it was so badly rusted under the Bondo that I declined to restore it. I passed it to another person in British Columbia who felt that he could save it. He cut out all the rust he could find and repainted. Six months later he sent me phots of new rust bubbles appearing where there had been no sign of corrosion before. Very sad. Here is the interior of car #100/100 - as you can see both leather and wood are very good....but the body was very bad:
Dave: most obsessions give that impression. But seriously, the history of the Series XJ cars is very interesting, largely because of what today would be unacceptable in the uniformity-loving automobile industry. The cars are quirky because they were designed and built by people who had a tolerance, if not appreciation, of quirks. An example of something that is almost unknown: on the Series III cars the "brow" above the rear lamp unit which forms the rear edge of the fender flowing into the fender/trunk aperture is different on EVERY car. Why? Because it was hand-formed with lead(!) - a practice which is simply no longer permissible for safety reasons as well as for reasons of cost. If you closely examine this area on any Series III car you will likely be able to discern minor undulations in the rear edge - proof of hand craftsmanship. The amount of expensive labour that went into every one of these cars (and more so into the Daimler/Vanden Plas versions) is quite amazing.
Dave: most obsessions give that impression. But seriously, the history of the Series XJ cars is very interesting, largely because of what today would be unacceptable in the uniformity-loving automobile industry. The cars are quirky because they were designed and built by people who had a tolerance, if not appreciation, of quirks. An example of something that is almost unknown: on the Series III cars the "brow" above the rear lamp unit which forms the rear edge of the fender flowing into the fender/trunk aperture is different on EVERY car. Why? Because it was hand-formed with lead(!) - a practice which is simply no longer permissible for safety reasons as well as for reasons of cost. If you closely examine this area on any Series III car you will likely be able to discern minor undulations in the rear edge - proof of hand craftsmanship. The amount of expensive labour that went into every one of these cars (and more so into the Daimler/Vanden Plas versions) is quite amazing.
Back in the 80s my wife and I had a tour of the Castle Bromwich factory that was making the bodies for the XJ40. We were later shown into a large shed where body shells for the V12s were being lead-loaded. At that time about 50 a week were being produced; penny packets basically. There is body lead all over those shells, but not as much as was in the Mark 2 and S-type shells and, of course, the E-types.
Looking for 1992 Series 3 V12 final Canadian edition
sov211, Do you know of any 1992 Series 3 Vanden Plas V12 final Canadian editions for sale?
Originally Posted by sov211
Doug is correct about the model known as the "XJ12" : it went out of production in 1981. This car was almost identical to the XJ6 except for the power train.
It was replaced for the 1982 and later model years by the more luxurious Sovereign V12 and (even more luxurious) V12 Vanden Plas - which was in essence a Daimler Double Six.
After the 1985 model year Jaguar built the V12 Vanden Plas for Canada only; the calendar (note this!) year of greatest production was 1986 (which does not mean model year 1986) in which 627 were built - the lowest number was in 1990 and 1991.
The last year of production for the Sovereign V12 was 1991; the Daimler Double Six (for the UK, Germany and Japan) and the Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas for Canada continued in production to the end of 1992.
Jaguar has *no record of "model year" production for the V12 VDP*.
The reason? These cars for the Canadian market were taken either from the normal Jaguar Sovereign V12 line (the 1988 to 1991 cars inclusive) or from the Daimler Double Six line (up to the 1987 cars and again for the 1992 cars). The only production records Jaguar has for the V12 VDP is from the record of the number of V12 cars sold to Jaguar Canada in a given *calendar* year (which would obviously include cars built for two model years). Confused yet? Wait:
Jaguar does know how many of these cars were built for the 1992 model year! How? Because Jaguar Canada ordered precisely 100 fully-optioned Daimler Double Sixes in special colours (Black Cherry and Oyster) and trim (Doeskin piped in Barley), each one badged as a Jaguar V12 Vanden Plas, individually numbered and provided with a plaque giving the number of the car out of 100. Some of the 100 were built in 1991, the balance in 1992, by which time some of the Jaguar trim items were no longer in supply, the chrome twin stock mirror control being one example, but there were other anomalies. Several of the cars were delivered with Daimler items (driver's floor mat, engine decals...). The Canadian cars had certain Canada-only items, one being the bonnet-mounted washer nozzles.
Here is car # 92/100 in Black Cherry:
The number plaque: usually mounted as here on the console, but occasionally (and unfortunately) on the glovebox door where the holes drilled tended to crack the veneer: The Alpine radio unit incorporates the CD changer control. The changer was mounted in the trunk:
the very late mirror control - and can you make out the Daimler logo on the mat? this is car #92/100:
And the engine: see the Daimler decals on the cam covers - and note the ABS unit on the passenger-side of the engine bay - the battery on the 1992 cars sits in the trunk; note the blanked-off bit in the middle vanes of the air grille where the washer nozzle sits on the non-Canadian cars:
The battery and CD changer and cord for the coolant pre-heater unit on the Canadian cars:
One dealer, Jaguar-on-Bay in Toronto, the largest dealer in Canada was permitted to special-order the 1992 cars for clients in colours other than Oyster or Black Cherry. A few were in Regency Red Mica (example, #24/100) - note the mudflaps,
And a couple in Jaguar Black ( this is car #6/100):
a few in Jaguar Racing Green. The interiors were all identical in Doeskin with contrasting piping except for one in Green which did not have the contrasting piping, either as an "escapee" or by special client request. The cars in these other colours sold by dealers across Canada were ordered through the Toronto dealership.
Some of these last 100 cars are now in the US, and most of those passed through my hands. Car #100/100, potentially the most collectible, was sold new in Montreal by Decarie Motors. When it came to me it was so badly rusted under the Bondo that I declined to restore it. I passed it to another person in British Columbia who felt that he could save it. He cut out all the rust he could find and repainted. Six months later he sent me phots of new rust bubbles appearing where there had been no sign of corrosion before. Very sad. Here is the interior of car #100/100 - as you can see both leather and wood are very good....but the body was very bad:
Good afternoon Sov211, Unfortunately I am not sure how to send a PM. My email is GSP1776@protonmail.com. Would enjoy speaking with you about this vehicle.
Good afternoon Sov211, Unfortunately I am not sure how to send a PM. My email is GSP1776@protonmail.com. Would enjoy speaking with you about this vehicle.
Thank you!
Greg
Greg:
Having trouble with my email - which I discovered after writing a long, illustrated, witty and erudite note to you. Hmmmm....I might be able to recover it and resend but it might be a day or two.
Hello, thank you for all of the knowledge on these old Jags it is a complicated history. My questions is where you stated that the xj12 went out of production in 1981. I am now the owner of what I thought was a 1982 xj12. It was imported from Kuwait in the 90s. It is badged xj12 and 5.3. So did Jaguar sell the xj12 overseas after 1981? I inherited the car and its out of state but the vin I was given is AJBALW4cc324821 if that helps. Thank you very much!
Let me clarify my statement regarding the XJ12. The last model year for the XJ12 was 1982, but most of the cars (not all) for the 1982 model year were built in calendar year 1981.
So your 1982 model year XJ12 is perfectly correct. The 1983 model year range was quite different as Jaguar made the cars more luxurious, introducing the Sovereign model in both 6 cylinder and V12 configurations depending upon the market.
The Sovereign models were offered in the UK, Germany, Australia, and other markets, but not in the US. For Canada the range was XJ6, XJ6 Sovereign, and the V12 Vanden Plas (which was in reality a Daimler Double Six but with Jaguar badging, grill and rear plinth).
i know, clear as mud….it gets even more complicated, but I will spare you…
Sovereign seat design - leather seating surface, the rest in Ambla; they look like XJ6 seats but they are shallower to give the illusion of more leg room (!):
And the Vanden Plas seat design:: more elegant, entirely leather covered and less comfortable (!):
I've owned a Daimler Double Six for 30 years. They are sublime to drive with a wonderful ride-handling combination, far better than any modern car. The XJ40 and X300s came close (and with fewer creaks and rattles), but nothing else compares.
There are three areas that I pay particular attention to keep my car reliable. First, ground connections - bad earths can cause a myriad of hard to diagnose electrical problems. Make sure they are all good, especially ground strap to the engine.
Corrosion in the fuels tanks. Particles of rust are a problem for the injectors, the fuel pump, and the change over valves for switching tanks. Fuel filters should block them, but the smallest particles seem to get through and then stick together again elsewhere. And once there are a lot of particles in the system, they are immensely difficult to flush out. In the end, I changed all the fuel lines.
The radiator gets blocked internally with coolant crud and externally with leaves and whatever. Any over heating of an aluminium, open deck engine with wet iron liners, rapidly turns into a serious problem. Maintain all aspects of the cooling system. Change all the rubber coolant hoses every 5 years or so even if they look fine.
These are all time great cars. They aren't particularly difficult, though a lot of mechanics will claim they are and use it as an excuse for shoddy work.
Ich habe auch einen Jaguar V12 VdP Black Cherry von 1992.
Die Fahrgestellnummer hat ein „L“, was „Canadian Special“ bedeutet, aber ich habe keinen Aufkleber mit der Nummer …/100.
Es sieht genauso aus, wie Sie es beschreiben!
SORRY,
I also have a 1992 Jaguar V12 VdP Black Cherry.
The VIN number has an "L" which means Canadian Special, but I don't have a sticker with the number.../100
It looks exactly as you describe!
SORRY,
I also have a 1992 Jaguar V12 VdP Black Cherry.
The VIN number has an "L" which means Canadian Special, but I don't have a sticker with the number.../100
It looks exactly as you describe!
It’s my understanding that the commemorative plaques came “in the glove box” for the owner (or the dealer on behalf of the owner) to install. I own Number 3 and it has its plaque screwed to the console in front of the gear shift. I also owned Number 24 (long sad story) and it’s plaque was screwed to the glove box door. You should be able to get more information with the serial number from Jaguar Heritage Trust or a similar build date data base.
.
SORRY,
I also have a 1992 Jaguar V12 VdP Black Cherry.
The VIN number has an "L" which means Canadian Special, but I don't have a sticker with the number.../100
It looks exactly as you describe!
If you give me the last 6 digits of the VIN, I can tell you the number /100.
11-25-2020, 08:14 AM
Series 3 XJ12's
