dont want to start a debate;;!!
like i said getting the Crane system sorted was time consuming, it does use an Optical sensor pickup from a slotted disc(tricky setup), most probs were rotor phasing.

no trigger board at all, ECU injector pickup was at a coil lead. a plus is the advance curve can be modded for your needs, some GM dist weights can be made to work, along with springs, almost a joke in todays ignition systems.

but lets face it, it is old tech(really old) HE is just GM HEI,(high energy ignition) redone to meet Jag needs, also old tech.

modern ignition systems have advanced lightyears ahead of that old stuff.

crankangle sensors, cam angle sensors, MAF airmeters, coil-on-plug , good modern Iridium plugs, ECU-EMS are capable of almost any thing you can think of, EVEN TUNING THE ENGINE by its self!!

 

Why would you use 300zx system over dual Delco 808s?
Apparently you can use 2x V6 ones or V8 (or something) and there are many tuning bits for them.

Personally I can see no reason to modify the HE injection system because as you all probably know the cylinder heads can't easily flow anymore air than they already do.

One time I had an HE V12 that wouldn't start. I got it here and found in my search for the no start fault that about every critical vacuum hose was incorrectly routed or broken, the computer had been tampered with because of the poor running of it, the timing had been altered and the throttle stops adjusted.

Turns out the no start business was just an open circuit coolant temp sensor, but when I told the owner I really need to spend mostly time to get it back to standard he said "Go for it! It's never run properly since I bought it" [secondhand].

I just got the book and set the vacuum hose routing (for Australia) re set the throttles, adjusted the throttle rods, checked the TPS. The Vac advance wasn't working so the dist had to come out and the full enrichment MAP micro switch arm was bent so it didn't touch the ramp/cam on the throttle quadrant So I followed the procedure I read somewhere to set the computer back to standard. After fixing it all which took quite some time, I took it for a drive and revved it up but it rattled very badly. I then put some 98 octane in one tank and revved it until it stopped rattling. It was an entirely different car after that. The owner was in Scotland so I got to drive it for a week or 2 to sort it out. I took it for 350km drive and the fuel consumption was 21 imp MPG (not US MPG BTW). The power was excellent. It easily turned both the back tyres after that long trip when you floored it. Hardly a burnout beast but not too shabby for a high geared HE V12.
Aust HE's have 305hp and the one I was working on was the earlier 83-85 12.5:1 HE (as opposed to the 11.? later HE. which is partly why it was rattling so much I guess. We still had leaded fuel in Aust until the end of 1985 so I suppose that's why we got a lot of the higher comp ones.
I really don't think aftermarket injection is going to make much difference to a properly set up HE. The motor is obviously built around lean mixtures. Even the 6 litre hardly makes that much more power - just moves the torque band lower.

Pre HE is an entirely different proposition. I for one would love to have a modern injection system on my 1980 V12.
Rather than injection, part of me really only wants to get rid of the stupid distributor and move the aircond compressor so I can run 2x 390 Holleys or a couple of Edelbrock AFBs so the motor looks like a front engine Ferrari V12 from the 1960s. Not legal that on a 1980 S3 here unfortunately. One can dream. Could legally do it on a S1 though.

 

Here is a V12 running 2 Delco 808's and from the look it's a HE (only going from the injection rail). HMMMM certainly got me thinking instead of MS3

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808 is good way to go too. There are a few aspects to the Nissan system that are better suited to the v12 and its ease of installation. I'm very familiar with the delco 808 system its great and I know it well because I use it's 165 cousin on my Jag lump. It's a bit tricky to get the DIS working because you need a odd magnetic pulse from the crank to trigger the DIS. Also the 808 is MAP and tunning MAP in a diy setting takes much longer than MAF. The idle air control is similar on the Jag v12 and Nissan system.

The Nissan conversion wont be a walk in the park either... modifing the CAS adding a 2nd pickup 60 degrees offset will require some skils and time too.

 

Double post

 

Yes.

Thing is for me though, is I like simple. I don't want to solve ignition problems after I've set up my injection system. I want an honest, reliable and durable ignition system that will fire a V12 at 6500rpm day in day out.

I was careful to mention the need for a modern coil. GM HEI system used in the HE is an excellent system. Advance weights are incredibly reliable and work well. Reluctor and pick up are some of the most reliable trigger mechanisms I have ever seen. In fact I don't think I've ever seen that system fail. GM modules are cheap. The system is excellent for a pre HE.

That's not to say modern isn't better. You are absolutely correct; it is.

I just want to have an ultra reliable powerful ignition system that easily works on a standard pre HE V12, so when I'm spending my money on the MS/808/300zx injection system and setting it up, I'm not chasing ignition issues form Opus (or Crane).

 

HEI wont do it....a v12 at 6500 RPM is like a V8 running at 9750 RPM . This is why you need two independant fuel and ignitions systems with a high strung v12.

The 300ZX CAS can be turned by hand and as you turn it you can hear the injectors fire and then the spark. Quite cool and a makes diag a sinch.

The CAS has a high and low resulition optical trigger wheel so it always knows exactly where the engine is during its rotation. This offers the ECM hundreds of data points per revolution. The GM 808 offer 3 or 4 data data points per revolution.
TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - CAS mayhem!

 

I hear you, but HEI seems to work pretty well. Certainly better than Crane. It doesn't mind 6500 in my direct experience. No match for multi coil I admit. If I were building a new engine with lighter pistons I'd go crank trigger.

As mentioned, all I'm saying is people that want a substantial improvement for pre HE can get it reasonably cheaply. I don't like Crane. One time failure is fine but twice?; and the module was $220 here. Wasn't doing that cycle a third time I can tell you.

You could put an MSD on instead of the GM box. I hear it throws whopping sparks to 9500 on a V8. I don't have any experience with them on a V12 so I cannot vouch for their long term reliability. Reliability and better than adequate performance is my main theme. Resistance to heat whilst maintaining performance is extremely important to me also. For example many parts of Australia get +40deg C Celsius for weeks on end over summer and the under hood temps are enormous in a V12 idling in peak hour traffic. Those 'old' HEI systems seem to take it all in their stride for years on end.

I get crank angle multi coil systems can give you all this and more. 1960's Ferraris after all had 2 distributors. Your argument has much merit but I don't want to spend the money as I don't see a proportional advantage for the time and money spent on a used engine. Fun to do if that's your thing. My time is better spent on the injection system since the amount of time my 33yo V12 spends over 6500rpm might represent <.01% of the time it is running. I would like to get rid of the distributor but mostly for cosmetic reasons. I just don't want to spend the money really and I wasn't putting mine back to Opus that's for sure.

 

to each his own.

as far as the Crane system , quite a few were sold and worked out fine,no problems.

there is a guy on J/lovers, Ed sowell, has had one for 18-20yrs,(dont konw if he had trouble with it),tho still uses it,today.

my crane works great,with the XR700 box,I tried it with a Xr3000 box, it would not run properly, breakup and stuttered at HI rpm ,talked to crane, they said 3000unit was engineered for V8 only, as was the 700, but the electronics were never designed for V12, the 700 was more forgiving when asked to do a V12, so thats when i started working with crane to do a crank trigger system, never finished, because 700+optical was good enough,good startup, smooth idle, excellant response, rpm up to 7000,.

i dont need anything more from my setup.

but not to forget ignition systems have changed in the last 20yrs,A LOT!

also when 1st box failed, it was the coil current draw, that over heated the box, not the ambient heat,(never mount any box in the V of any engine, in 120F temps). changed to a different coil,no probs.

top of radiator support seems to be a prefered place. wind passing over it!

but coil-on -plug, YIKES 12 COILS, the whole system has time to recharge between firing the same plug again.

and the crane does need some expertise in the installation, rotor phasing has to be dead nuts on!! the dizzy cap electrodes are very close, ALA ferrari twin dizzis,two 6 cylinders.

but do use what you feel is correct for you, spend say couple hundred dollars, or its possible to spend 2000-3000 dollars!

 

From memory after the first one failed I put a new coil and new (non Jaguar) ballast resistor in case it was the coil. As mentioned I got about another 12 months so I don't know what the problem was. Wasn't trying a third time. Even if it was the Jag electricals causing it, the Crane system was too fragile for my use.

Dual coils would be completely fine in all honesty but how to distribute the spark?, so multi coil it has to be I suppose.