12v pump all the way to fuel rail, still no fuel dist. ARG
#1
06-17-2013 | 08:54 PM
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From: Rochester NY
12v pump all the way to fuel rail, still no fuel dist. ARG
Inertia switch check, cleaned fuel tank and stage tank, check, at my wits end with a no start, I need some serious advice, Removed 3cu, opened it, nothing burnt out, starts fine with starting fluid, 12v sourced fuel to fuel rail, Did not check the trigger under distributor cap yet, that is next, I even checked the injector amp, going to upgrade to either 6cu or 16 cu depending on compression... are these pins compatible?
76 XJ-S
76 XJ-S
#2
06-17-2013 | 08:59 PM
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#3
06-17-2013 | 09:12 PM
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#4
06-17-2013 | 09:22 PM
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#5
06-17-2013 | 09:30 PM
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From: Adelaide Stralia
Welcome the real world of motoring with a PreHE V12, drinking will be required, trust me.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
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#6
06-18-2013 | 12:47 AM
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From: Rochester NY
Stephen Olney
1976 XJ-S V12
#7
06-18-2013 | 08:32 AM
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#8
06-18-2013 | 08:39 AM
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Grant Francis (06-19-2013)
#9
06-18-2013 | 04:09 PM
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From: Rochester NY
1976 XJ-S 3 wire FI trigger I have now Prayed....
Good day Gents,
Well I searched the Wire coming out of the front of the Distributor cap, and it has 3 wires (Black, White, and Clear), going to a coupler, Appears that simply removing the wires and an unbolt, Hopefully it comes out without having to remove the prison cage above it,,,, lol I will check the board for solder issues. In Theory, if the magnet has lost it's Polarity, is it safe to submit that it can be re-magnified using another magnet, or a magnet strip constructed on the inside of the distributor, given it's clockwise direction, to consistently re direct polarity strength within the rotor magnet? Also as the magnet loses polarity at lower RPM, Will Polarity strength then be determined by more passing at a higher RPM if a Magnet strip is constructed inside the distributor, and Doe polarity strength determine a higher pulse generation.... ? Thanks again guys you are truly magnif !!!
Stephen Olney (1600's) England
1976 XJ-X (S)(Project X)
also what is a trackback below this reply....?
Well I searched the Wire coming out of the front of the Distributor cap, and it has 3 wires (Black, White, and Clear), going to a coupler, Appears that simply removing the wires and an unbolt, Hopefully it comes out without having to remove the prison cage above it,,,, lol I will check the board for solder issues. In Theory, if the magnet has lost it's Polarity, is it safe to submit that it can be re-magnified using another magnet, or a magnet strip constructed on the inside of the distributor, given it's clockwise direction, to consistently re direct polarity strength within the rotor magnet? Also as the magnet loses polarity at lower RPM, Will Polarity strength then be determined by more passing at a higher RPM if a Magnet strip is constructed inside the distributor, and Doe polarity strength determine a higher pulse generation.... ? Thanks again guys you are truly magnif !!!
Stephen Olney (1600's) England
1976 XJ-X (S)(Project X)
also what is a trackback below this reply....?
Welcome the real world of motoring with a PreHE V12, drinking will be required, trust me.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
#11
06-19-2013 | 03:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,807
Likes: 10,607
From: Adelaide Stralia
Bugga, YES there is and I remember, I think, it has the same death factor as the HE unit. By that I mean it that coolant sensor losses connection integrity the engine simply will NOT start. I dont have access to a PreHE at the moment to test my memory.
Soooo, check the wires at the plug at the ECU sensor on the backside of the LH thermostat housing. They break, and that will stop engine starting for sure.
Soooo, check the wires at the plug at the ECU sensor on the backside of the LH thermostat housing. They break, and that will stop engine starting for sure.
#12
06-19-2013 | 04:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 27,807
Likes: 10,607
From: Adelaide Stralia
Good day Gents,
Well I searched the Wire coming out of the front of the Distributor cap, and it has 3 wires (Black, White, and Clear), going to a coupler, Appears that simply removing the wires and an unbolt, Hopefully it comes out without having to remove the prison cage above it,,,, lol I will check the board for solder issues. In Theory, if the magnet has lost it's Polarity, is it safe to submit that it can be re-magnified using another magnet, or a magnet strip constructed on the inside of the distributor, given it's clockwise direction, to consistently re direct polarity strength within the rotor magnet? Also as the magnet loses polarity at lower RPM, Will Polarity strength then be determined by more passing at a higher RPM if a Magnet strip is constructed inside the distributor, and Doe polarity strength determine a higher pulse generation.... ? Thanks again guys you are truly magnif !!!
Stephen Olney (1600's) England
1976 XJ-X (S)(Project X)
also what is a trackback below this reply....?
Well I searched the Wire coming out of the front of the Distributor cap, and it has 3 wires (Black, White, and Clear), going to a coupler, Appears that simply removing the wires and an unbolt, Hopefully it comes out without having to remove the prison cage above it,,,, lol I will check the board for solder issues. In Theory, if the magnet has lost it's Polarity, is it safe to submit that it can be re-magnified using another magnet, or a magnet strip constructed on the inside of the distributor, given it's clockwise direction, to consistently re direct polarity strength within the rotor magnet? Also as the magnet loses polarity at lower RPM, Will Polarity strength then be determined by more passing at a higher RPM if a Magnet strip is constructed inside the distributor, and Doe polarity strength determine a higher pulse generation.... ? Thanks again guys you are truly magnif !!!
Stephen Olney (1600's) England
1976 XJ-X (S)(Project X)
also what is a trackback below this reply....?
I have an old 3 wire here, and passing a VERY strong magnetic on a stick over both ends of the board (where to 2 sets of switches are) has a distinctive clicking at one end, and little to nothing at the other. Now this magnet is significantly stronger than the rotor magnet. This board was in "her" S2 XJ12, and would drop one bank of cylinders at a time when having a hissy. I replaced it 19 years ago with the 4 wire board and rotor, never had issues again.
The board is held in place with 4 "plastic" screws, and 4 insulator rubbers, and they are still available from Jaguar, in the UK.
The distributor rotates in an "anticlocwise" direction, which you probably already know.
I also believe that the 4 wire "kit" is still available for that system, but it has been a while since I needed one.
I dont believe you will "see" anything out of whack, as all I have dealt with have been those imbedded switches.
#13
06-19-2013 | 08:59 AM
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From: Rochester NY
Hey Grant,
Thanks for your last post, there are 3 wires coming out of the distributor Cap, I am disassembling this AM ...
Thanks for your last post, there are 3 wires coming out of the distributor Cap, I am disassembling this AM ...
Welcome the real world of motoring with a PreHE V12, drinking will be required, trust me.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
It has been a loooong time since I played with a D Jetronic, but here goes.
The 3CU is the ONLY ECU for this "D-Jetronic" EFI system. It is the "grand-daddy" of what we have today. I have never seen one go bad.
The 6CU and 16CU are for the later HE engines with "P Digital" EFI, and totally different operating technology.
You, sir, have NO injector pulse, VERY common on the PreHE system.
Inside the distributor is a "trigger board" just under the rotor. It will either have 3 or 4 wires to it. If its a 3 wire, pray like hell.
The 3 wire trigger board has reed switches imbedded in it, and the passing of the heel of the rotor (where the magnet is) over these switches activates them and triggers the injection system, simple, but unreliable.
The 4 wire board has "hall effect" switches imbedded in it, and the 4th wire is a 12v ignition supply, much more reliable.
The rotor has a magnet in the heel to activate these switches, and the 2 boards require a different magnet, NO IDEA why. One is a round magnet, the other is rectangular, and I simply forget which goes with what board.
I have been involved with some engines that have had the cap and rotor replaced, engine will not start, and the replacement rotor has NO magnet, coz the parts people had no idea, replaced the rotor with a magnet unit, beast is alive.
These magnets do loose their magnetism, as magnets do, and that will stop a PreHE with conviction.
Let us know how many wires going to the trigger board, then we can narrow it down significantly.
#14
06-19-2013 | 10:35 AM
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From: Rochester NY
#16
06-19-2013 | 08:54 PM
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From: Rochester NY
I am a tad lost at the remagnetising of that particular magnet, although I am familiar with the process.
I have an old 3 wire here, and passing a VERY strong magnetic on a stick over both ends of the board (where to 2 sets of switches are) has a distinctive clicking at one end, and little to nothing at the other. Now this magnet is significantly stronger than the rotor magnet. This board was in "her" S2 XJ12, and would drop one bank of cylinders at a time when having a hissy. I replaced it 19 years ago with the 4 wire board and rotor, never had issues again.
The board is held in place with 4 "plastic" screws, and 4 insulator rubbers, and they are still available from Jaguar, in the UK.
The distributor rotates in an "anticlocwise" direction, which you probably already know.
I also believe that the 4 wire "kit" is still available for that system, but it has been a while since I needed one.
I dont believe you will "see" anything out of whack, as all I have dealt with have been those imbedded switches.
I have an old 3 wire here, and passing a VERY strong magnetic on a stick over both ends of the board (where to 2 sets of switches are) has a distinctive clicking at one end, and little to nothing at the other. Now this magnet is significantly stronger than the rotor magnet. This board was in "her" S2 XJ12, and would drop one bank of cylinders at a time when having a hissy. I replaced it 19 years ago with the 4 wire board and rotor, never had issues again.
The board is held in place with 4 "plastic" screws, and 4 insulator rubbers, and they are still available from Jaguar, in the UK.
The distributor rotates in an "anticlocwise" direction, which you probably already know.
I also believe that the 4 wire "kit" is still available for that system, but it has been a while since I needed one.
I dont believe you will "see" anything out of whack, as all I have dealt with have been those imbedded switches.
It appeared as a top/bottom capacitor with ge led at the bottom aligned to the rotor heal, and a thin sprocket like wheel with about 1/8" gap appearing to me as a "Pulse Gap", makes sense, car still did not start. It was however a little loose on it's axis,(the top/bottom , where the 3 wire connects inside dist)... Am I needing another rotor? the EGR/Catalyst light turns on inside the car when I try to start it, I don't know...
Please Advise.....Or it's a 56k motor for sale......lol never.
Stephen
1976 XJ-S
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