I think, repeat think, that one reason would be beacuse the signal down Grant's "little white wire inside the shielded outer" from the amp to the ECU is not getting there. Another reason would be that the injector loom is not connected properly. Another would be ....

Greg

 

OK.

NO injector activity as you open that capstan with ign ON, is NOT good. Try opening that capstan again, ign ON, but quicker, as in you are stompin that thing off the line.

My reasoning is simple enough. Slow acceleration, requires NO enrichment from the system. This "click" you hear is part of the enrichment built in, along with many other items, and NONE of these have anything to do with getting it running.

If you still no got activity from the injectors, then Gregs words are spot on.

The EFI loom is fickle.

The multi pin plug at the ECU is fickle.

The MAIN relay, in the RED socket in the boot is fickle. It actually switches ON all and sundry, including the ECU/fuel pump.

Have you got 5v at ONE terminal of the CTS plug?. Without that the EFI is DEAD.

The sooty spark plugs is BAD, and will cause starting issues when the rest is sorted.

 

That pulse signal to pin #18 of the ECU from the ign amp is critical during crank and running.

Its presence, or lack of, during that capstan rotation matters not. If those injectors DO NOT activate during that rotation, that will need sorting first and foremost.

 

Ok, Ill check all those.Now when you say 5v at cts plug,do you mean the wire going to the ecu from ign amp?Or the plug on side of ign amp,comming up from distributor pick up?I do have 12v going to ecu from the wire comming out of ign amp.

 

Ok,here is what I found so far.when I turn ignition to on,like I said before on tps,closed throttle with DC volt meter.
.33v between yellow and red wires on tps harness.Open throttle,5.1v.So that basically checks out.
Now if I leave ign on,and at closed throttle,and disconnect the yellow wire only,from the tps,then just touch it back together,I can hear bank A side of injectors opening.(click)'but not B bank.Shouldnt all injectors click at this point.?

 

I dont believe so. I dont remember any of the V12's doing that when plugging in, only when opened rapidly.

If you got one bank only clicking, my bet is the EFI loom is hissy.

The 5v I am mentioning is in ONE of the 2 terminals of the CTS plug. Nothing to do with the ign amp. The 2 wires of the CTS go direct to the ECU. One is a 5v feed FROM the ECU, the 2nd is the resistor feedback TO the ECU. OK, it siameses to the ATS, and TPS on the way, but dont confuse that issue at this time. The ECU needs to provide 5v TO that sensor, and get a resistance reading back FROM it to do the fueling map. NO signal = dead engine.

 

Oh,cts coolant temp sensor..And air temp sensor ats,got it..So with ign on I should have 5v on one of the wires on cts and 5v on one of the ats wires correct? aren't those sensors tied into the tps wires?
Ok,I checked the cts it has 3.65v on one of the wires.And the ats one wire has only 1.65 v.one of the wires to the ats was broken in the harness.so I spliced it and thats the wire that now has only 1.65 v.Are these to low of voltage?
I tried starting car again,it started only when I retarded dist 12° and only at a rough idle.Throttle had to be wide open,before it would start.I tried pumping throttle but no change.after I closed throttle it died out.
It seems like fuel prob?

 

Now,with ign on,not cranking eng,checking all injectors with test light.both wires on each injector lights up.Now while cranking eng,shouldn't test light flash,while touching injector wires?mine stays steady...

 

Those volts are TOO low. You got ECU plug, and/or wiring issues.

OK, it started, so spark has been found, GOOD.

This messing with the timing and wide open throttle is against all principles for me. That V12 starts and runs with NO gas pedal movement, and the timing set as discussed waaaaay back. Moving things around is masking too many issues.

That low volts at the CTS is a concern, and that is purely FROM the ECU.

I have just finished a 12 hour shift and am tired, so i will say no more for fear of getting it wrong.

I am going to a V12 in the next day or 2, and it is EXACTLY as Jaguar made it. I will take some readings from the TPS/CTS/ATS, and post back when I get them.

 

ok,thank you Grant.I'll wait to hear back.In the mean time,I'll check all wiring and clean more terminals.
I do have the 5v for the ats and cts up where they tie in at tps..

 

Ok,another update.I found the yellow wire going to ats broken at connector,and two bullet conectors green with corrosion.they go to some kind of electric sensor on fuel rail and tie into yellow wire going to ats.
Now I have 5v to ats.
But still only 3.69v to cts on blue/red wire.The yellow/blk wire going to cts has 0.0v I traced it back from cts connector to tps plug connector and to ecu..Shouldnt there be 5v on at least one of those wires?the blue/red I assume goes to ecu.or does it come from ecu?wich one should have 5v with ign on?
car will start if give it a 1/4 throttle,but runs rough.If I feathed the tps sometimes it will rev up but then wants to die.
I cleaned the contacts on ecu and plug.
this is driving me nuts.

 

You are getting warm; I feel sure. As Grant said in an earlier post:
"The 5v I am mentioning is in ONE of the 2 terminals of the CTS plug"

So you should have 5 volts on one of the wires to the CTS. I am almost sure that the yellow/black wire should have the 5volts, as it is spliced off another wire that feeds the TPS and the CTS. Grant will confirm I am sure. But in the meantime I suggest you trace back the yellow black wire in the loom, from the plug to the splice which is near the TPS somewhere. Once you find the 5volts you may have cracked it.

Greg

 

OK, found 2 cars to probe today, so here goes.

YW of car loom for TPS = RED of TPS pigtail = Pin 7 of ECU = 4.99v.
YK of car loom for TPS = GREEN of TPS pigtail = splice TO the ATS one side = pin 20 of ECU= 4.99v.
YB of car loom for TPS = YELLOW of TPS pigtail = splice TO the CTS one side = pin 19 of ECU = 0v.
RU of ATS = 0.10v. Not sure of why, they are both the same, so maybe a small feed from somewhere, its LUCAS, nuf said.
U? of the CTS = pin 5 of ECU = 5v.

The splices I mention are BOTH at the TPS plug on the chassis side plug, and are clearly visible as 2 wires in the same hole.

One of the cars today had bad signs of the wires in the "2 wire" area showing seperation, and I will have to sort it for him in the near future.

The wires running FROM those splices TO the respective sensors are easily damaged due to heat, pulling and tugging during some maintenance procedures. The breaking inside the loom/s due to heat is the most common failure.

It sounds like you have already had some broken wire issues, so I reckon you have more wiring issues than you would really like to have at this stage of the repairs.

Stripping back the loom/s and inspecting, and repairing EVERY wire is the only real way of eliminating wiring from this cars demons.

A continuity test of EVERY wire from teh ECU multi pin plug TO the engine bay is also very high on my TO DO list. Frustration will stay with you until all that is sorted once and for all.

I have the wiring schematics for the USA and AUST cars for the EFI system, that will assist as to what PIN goes to WHAT sensor etc.

I think??? HAHA, I did attach that somewhere way bask in this post, but if I did not ask away and I will attach them.

 

Very good info thanks,So these test were all done with ign on?when you say y/w you mean single y wire with wht spiral from eng side of plug?and it supplies 4.99v from ecu to plug on tps??
I did trace and fix the wires for the ats,y/w tracer wire,so I have 5v at ats plug on that wire.I traced the y/b wire from cts back to like you said eng side tps plug.0v.On my U? wire from cts to ecu I only have 3.6v I traced it back to where it disappears into right side inner fender well.Shows same 3.6v and all the way back to ecu.3.6v
So does that mean ecu is bad?at that connection?
I do have your schematic thanks.
I'll check every pin on ecu today.
I'll get back to you with results..
Thanks again...

 

well checked the u? wire from cts, all the way to ecu,for some reason only 3.6v.I cleaned plug and ecu terms.Still 3.6v is all I can get.
Ok,here is bad news,Checked oil stick,Oil is way full a couple quarts over and smells like gas.Its so thin it is leaking out through front oil seal on eng.I did notice sometimes when I turn ign on,I hear fuel pump run for a few seconds but hear hissing noise on at least one inj,after I turn ign off.Im sure now one or more injects are leaking into cylinders.going past rings and into oil.Im afraid if I keep cranking eng it could wash out bearings and sieze eng.
The oil leaking out of front of eng smells bad of fuel.Im going to have to take off fuel rail leaving injectors intack and charge rail to see which injs are leaking.
I may just cut egine wire harnnes at rht side fender well,and remove it and rebuild it,wire by wire.I'll put it all back together in new wire looms.If I have to i'll get all new injectors.
I just hope I haven't hurt crank bearings and piston walls,with gas deluted oil.

 

Here is what happened when I pulled fuel rail with injectors intact.
I turned ign on and charged fuel rail.with all fuel and electrical still hooked up,I cranked eng.no fuel sprayed from injectors.One or two just trickled lightly.when I turned ign off,inj 2a sprayed about an ounce of fuel.Very strange.
I turned ign back on and not cranking eng.Disconnected multi plug connector on right front inner fender well just behind radiator next to power resistor.and just touched it back together a couple times.and heard injtors click once.I tried it again a few times and no injtors clicked.
I cleaned that plug real good,still nothing.So im now stumped and confuesed.
Is there a way to test power resistor?
Now from what you posted earlier.If ecu doesnt send 5v to cts via the U? wire,and get back a signal from the y/b wire,ecu wont send pulse to activate power resistor? hense operating injectors,in sequence.So my ecu for some reason is only sending 3.6v to cts.Im assuming thats to low of voltage to let ecu do its job.Im speculating of course...

 

OK, 3 into 1.

YES, ign ON for those readings.

That 3.66 will be just fine, OK, a tad low, but consistent enough to do what it must, worry no more on that one.

Remember that the CTS is a prime signal sensor, along with the TPS, and the ATS is a trimmer sensor (the engine will run just fine with the ATS unplugged, but is DEAD with the CTS unplugged). Make sure the plugs go on the correct sensor, and I believe you are right with that, or things will make even less sense. It is not easy to plug them wrong, but I have seen it many times.

The fuel in the oil is NO GOOD. Bearings, nah, a crankcase ignition more of an issue, and that is NOT funny, trust me.

The injectors activating as you play with that plug, and as mentioned by you previously, the TPS plug, is a dead give away of a shorting EFI loom.

The resistor pack is basically bullet proof, and I have only seen faulty ones from sad engine fires.

The dribbling 2A is more than likely a stray +ve/-ve feed from that loom, more than a dud injector.

To remake a new lom at this stage of the proceedings is a smart thought, as so much is pointing to a loom issue.

I did the TPS unplug and replug as you mentioned before, on both these cars, with the ign ON, and NO clicking whatsoever.

 

ok,I understand about the loom,but what puzzles me is all the fuel in oil,and fuel injectors not spraying when cranking eng.How was it starting,with out a good steady flow of fuel?I didnt notice any cold start injectors.Is there another fuel suply other than injtors for cold start?

 

Yep, but NOT for cold start purposes.

There are 2 (if the RH is still there) FPR's (Fuel Pressure Regulators).

One on each side of the fuel rail near the front. They have a vac hose direct into the inlet manifold. They have a habit of rupturing the diaphragm, and raw fuel travels via that hose to the manifold, then simply runs down past the valves.

Also, you mentioned that when messing with the TPS that the injectors could be heard clicking. This will allow lots of fuel to flow into the engine, as it is probably holding the injector/s open.

There are so many variables here. All that trying to start, etc, has simply had the engine ingest a lot of fuel.

You also mentioned somewhere that the spark plugs are all sooty, and this will need to sorted/cleaned so when things align correctly the spark will be good and fat at the plugs so the engine runs sweeter than with sooted plugs.

The bores will be washed by now, so a SMALL amount of ATF down each plug hole (whilst they are out for cleaning) will aid compression when the time comes.

 

Yes,I have fuel pressure regulators.One on each bank.I checked the hose to each one they are dry and dont smell like fuel.Dont think there leaking.
my shop manual shows cold start injectors and a relay,but I cant find anything other than main injectors.
So,if i understand this correctly,the injectors (when ign on) will have 12v to both wires on each one,But while cranking eng,the ecu sends signal to power resistor,to pulse injectors?? im confused in that area..

Also the y/w wire on the chassis side of tps,unpluged from tps pigtail,ign on.I have .71v (you said yours was 4.9v) The two y/k wires I have 5v, the two y/b wires 0.0v

I cleand thr power resister plug,and multi plug that plugs into inject loom.still no injector activity,while cranking eng.I even pluged in another ecu that was in car when i bought it.still the same...