When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Good Morning Y'all...
Hate to do this to ya.
Hoping folks can help me out.
I recently changed all my ICluster lights to LED and the difference is night and day! (Ha, I crack myself up)...
The fuse was NOT blowing before the LED change.
Immediately I noticed that for both L and R IC directional signals on the dash, when I engage the stalk, I get a very brief flicker in the LED on the opposite IC LED in the dash.
For instance, if I am turning left and engage the stalk, the L LED on the dash will light "normally", blink, and the blink correspondeds with the tick/toc of the relay/controller,,, BUT the right LED in the IC veeeery briefly flickers as well.
Another point is that the flicker happens when the LH (in this example) blinks to OFF in it's tick/toc cycle. Meaning that, as the LH ICluster blinks and signals as "normal", when the LH signal is in its REST between blinks,,, its when I get the flicker in the RH LED... Blah blah blah. Did that make any sense?
The fuse doesn't last long. It blows pretty quickly.
I have not checked to see if the exterior lights are "flickering" when this happens. Probably should.
I also have not checked to see if it's simply a polarity thing with the LED bulbs in their sockets for the IC blinkers. Don't want to take the dash apart if I don't have to.
I noticed the diodes in the ED and am not clear/sure if a failure would cause my symptoms.
I'll post a ED. Makes my head hurt just looking at it.
JJJ the system relies on having sufficient resistance in the circuit. As the LEDs use almost no current, and have far lower resistance than the normal bulbs, there is something approaching a dead short in your turn signal circuit now.
EDIT: it turns out, see next post, that this "diagnosis" is complete tosh, please ignore and forgive!
If you contact Better Car Lighting, they will sell you bulbs they have developed for the XJS that prevent your problem.
Or, better still, put the old bulbs back in!
Last edited by Greg in France; 08-18-2022 at 12:15 AM.
JJJ
the system relies on having sufficient resistance in the circuit. As the LEDs use almost no current, and have far lower resistance than the normal bulbs, there is something approaching a dead short in your turn signal circuit now.
If you contact Better Car Lighting, they will sell you bulbs they have developed for the XJS that prevent your problem.
Or, better still, put the old bulbs back in!
Uh, Greg, you contradicted yourself. As you say, LEDs pull far LESS current, and therefore are far less likely to blow a fuse. Fuses blow based on the amount of current drawn; too much current and they blow. Resistance, in this case, has nothing to do with it.
Based on the description of the issue, it sounds like a grounding or near direct short issue. The leads on one of the LEDs you installed may have gotten cocked in the .socket and is shorting.
I have installed LEDs in 3 XJS' clusters, both pre and post facelift, and have had no issues.
Jon
Hmm. I'm hoping y'all will hash that disagreement (using that term lightly of course) because I don't know what to think.
Why would one led flicker that way?
I don't know a lot about electricity.
I was hearing what Greg said (messaged that company in the link already btw) and thinking that because so little of the wattage/amperage was getting used up and turned into heat and light (light bulb) that much more of the electricity was continuing on to GROUND, causing the fuse to blow... No?
At the same time, after reading about several conversions, I never came across this issue with the signals or any other of the replacement lights.
Just to add,,, the flashers are toooooo dim, especially in a convertible. I need to be able to clearly see them. With wind noise one can't here the clicking of the blinker switch under the dash. End up driving for miles with a blinker on... I tried NEW basic bulbs, still too dim. The LEDs are needed and a huge improvement.
I should also point out, of the two fuses, it's the 10amp #5 that's blowing.
Because of the hazards, and how they are tied into this, it's a bit confusing. I am having a hard time making out the flow of the diagram. I was hoping to be able to narrow things down before I start digging into the dash and then all four corners of the car (signal lights) looking for the problem...
It just seems like a LOT to be running through a 7.5 and 10amp fuse.
Hmm. I'm hoping y'all will hash that disagreement (using that term lightly of course) because I don't know what to think.
Why would one led flicker that way?
I don't know a lot about electricity.
I was hearing what Greg said (messaged that company in the link already btw) and thinking that because so little of the wattage/amperage was getting used up and turned into heat and light (light bulb) that much more of the electricity was continuing on to GROUND, causing the fuse to blow... No?
At the same time, after reading about several conversions, I never came across this issue with the signals or any other of the replacement lights.
Just to add,,, the flashers are toooooo dim, especially in a convertible. I need to be able to clearly see them. With wind noise one can't here the clicking of the blinker switch under the dash. End up driving for miles with a blinker on... I tried NEW basic bulbs, still too dim. The LEDs are needed and a huge improvement.
I should also point out, of the two fuses, it's the 10amp #5 that's blowing.
Because of the hazards, and how they are tied into this, it's a bit confusing. I am having a hard time making out the flow of the diagram. I was hoping to be able to narrow things down before I start digging into the dash and then all four corners of the car (signal lights) looking for the problem...
It just seems like a LOT to be running through a 7.5 and 10amp fuse.
The LEDs only use the amps (watts= volts x amps) they need. There isn't "extra" electricity flowing to ground. Electricity just doesn't work that way.
Think about it. Assuming you replaced incandescent bulbs in your house with LED bulbs, you didn't suddenly start tripping circuit breakers did you? LEDs require a whole lot less amps to operate. They are far more efficient that incandescent bulbs, both in your house and in your cluster.
SInce LEDs are just fancy diodes, and diodes have been known to short, it is possible you just have a bad LED.
I am quite prepared to be completely wrong about this JJJ !
As well as LEDs, BCL have a clicker you can install in the car which is nice and loud. I was doing in my coupe what you describe and leaving the signals on. This gizmo works really well.
You hit the nail on the head, Jal... I have a lot to learn about electricity. A lot.
Looks like I have some digging to do. I don't want to buy anything!
Honestly, because of the intensity of the lights I never saw and was not aware of this FLICKER prior to LEDs if it was happening. This flicker, and it's cause, has to be related to this issue..
I'll flip around and take a look at polarity on the LED lights themselves...
A gummed up stalk at the column needing cleaning?
Maybe the wiring around the exterior lights themselves need some attention... It's amazing that all of this is run by a 10amp fuse.
I'm going to open the (non OE) turn signal switch under dash and see what I see. Follow LGN to the cluster. It's the only common point (wiring wise) for the two dash bulbs. I don't understand that common wiring at all. From there, trace on the printed circuit for the L and R bulbs.
Also, the hazard switch. Take a look inside it and see what's going on. From what I remember (way back when) there is nothing fun about all the lottle bits and pieces INSIDE of that switch. Maybe if I can just unplug it and try the signals (signals which I think will be disabled at discon of H switch) I'll find something.
What about the two diodes? Shouldn't they be preventing feedback or back voltage from the exterior signal lights?
I spoke with Gil at BCL just now about my LED project and also mentioned your issue.
His thought was that there is some leakage of current happening to the other IC bulb. Of course the question is why is it happening?
With the common circuitry in the indicator circuits and the IC bulbs, it could be challenging to chase this down. We all know that the earths in the IC cluster are prone to deterioration and could well be the cause and you may want to look at cleaning all of those carefully, plus careful cleaning of the ribbon strips.
I asked Gil why LED bulbs would be prone to this ghost pulsing and he explained that the sensitivity of the LED bulbs requires only a few milliamps of extraneous current to cause it to pulse. whereas a filament bulb wouldn't even see a tiny bit of unexpected current. His suggestion was that you put a bridge diode between the 2 IC bulbs which would earth out any current that the other bulb shouldn't be seeing.
I spoke with Gil at BCL just now about my LED project and also mentioned your issue.
His thought was that there is some leakage of current happening to the other IC bulb. Of course the question is why is it happening?
With the common circuitry in the indicator circuits and the IC bulbs, it could be challenging to chase this down. We all know that the earths in the IC cluster are prone to deterioration and could well be the cause and you may want to look at cleaning all of those carefully, plus careful cleaning of the ribbon strips.
I asked Gil why LED bulbs would be prone to this ghost pulsing and he explained that the sensitivity of the LED bulbs requires only a few milliamps of extraneous current to cause it to pulse. whereas a filament bulb wouldn't even see a tiny bit of unexpected current. His suggestion was that you put a bridge diode between the 2 IC bulbs which would earth out any current that the other bulb shouldn't be seeing.
I hope some of that makes sense!
Good luck
Paul
Paul, Good Morning.
Very grateful that ya thought of meee...
What's a diode, lol? Kidding, kinda. I know that they don't allow reverse flow of voltage. So what size, spec and type?
I do have an extra/added ground wire to the cluster.
And with the way the bulbs are wired (and I still don't understand looking at the ED why they bother don't blink whenever the stalk is engaged) wouldn't a diode (one way valve) completely stop one of the blinkers from blinking?
And did he think that might be the cause for the blowing fuse...maybe?
What a thing. I'm sure it will be a tough thing to track down. The fuse blows fast, so I can't wait on it. One of those joys of being a car guy, I guess...
When you indicate on one side, it opens the circuit to one of the IC bulbs via the GW wire. And when you indicate the other way, it opens the circuit to the other IC bulb via the GR wire (ignore the crossover point of the GW & GR wires on the wiring diagram, it doesn't mean they actually connect, they are just trying to fit the lines on the diagram.
I would pull the cluster and try the following:
- swap out one indicator LED at a time with one of the other IC LEDs and see if the problem goes away. It could indicate a bad LED
- swap back the filament indicator bulbs one at a time and see if the problem only happens on one side, which might start to help you track the source of the leakage.
If you can't get to the bottom of it, let me know and I'll ask Gil about the spec of a bridge diode. The diode works by taking the live feed from both sides and when one side is activated, it prevents any leakage to the other side by sending it to ground.
When you indicate on one side, it opens the circuit to one of the IC bulbs via the GW wire. And when you indicate the other way, it opens the circuit to the other IC bulb via the GR wire (ignore the crossover point of the GW & GR wires on the wiring diagram, it doesn't mean they actually connect, they are just trying to fit the lines on the diagram.
I would pull the cluster and try the following:
- swap out one indicator LED at a time with one of the other IC LEDs and see if the problem goes away. It could indicate a bad LED
- swap back the filament indicator bulbs one at a time and see if the problem only happens on one side, which might start to help you track the source of the leakage.
If you can't get to the bottom of it, let me know and I'll ask Gil about the spec of a bridge diode. The diode works by taking the live feed from both sides and when one side is activated, it prevents any leakage to the other side by sending it to ground.
I spoke with Gil at BCL just now about my LED project and also mentioned your issue.
His thought was that there is some leakage of current happening to the other IC bulb. Of course the question is why is it happening?
With the common circuitry in the indicator circuits and the IC bulbs, it could be challenging to chase this down. We all know that the earths in the IC cluster are prone to deterioration and could well be the cause and you may want to look at cleaning all of those carefully, plus careful cleaning of the ribbon strips.
I asked Gil why LED bulbs would be prone to this ghost pulsing and he explained that the sensitivity of the LED bulbs requires only a few milliamps of extraneous current to cause it to pulse. whereas a filament bulb wouldn't even see a tiny bit of unexpected current. His suggestion was that you put a bridge diode between the 2 IC bulbs which would earth out any current that the other bulb shouldn't be seeing.
I hope some of that makes sense!
Good luck
Paul
I installed one of Gil's kits and had 'ghosting' on one of the LEDs - it was on a circuit that anyway isn't used on my car (front fogs, maybe🤔, so I removed that LED. Until I replaced the flasher unit, the turn signals were flashing super fast and I wonder if this might cause a load problem.
The unit I bought:
Vensans Flasher Relay, CF14 JL-02 3-Pin LED Flasher Flash Relay for Turn Signal Light Hyper Flash Fix 12V
Tks for that, I had fitted one of Gil's replacement relays to get the indicator speed correct. It also has the added benefit of a very audible clicking noise which is really helpful in an XJS where you're quite likely to miss the lights in the instrument cluster! Greg has also fitted that relay. However, it's good to hear that there are alternative cheap relays to cure the speed problem.
The LED ghosting seems to be a problem for many LED fitments. A number of people have seen it on the Transmission failure light. I'll talk to Gil as to whether there is a generic solution for this.
Tks for that, I had fitted one of Gil's replacement relays to get the indicator speed correct. It also has the added benefit of a very audible clicking noise which is really helpful in an XJS where you're quite likely to miss the lights in the instrument cluster! Greg has also fitted that relay. However, it's good to hear that there are alternative cheap relays to cure the speed problem.
The LED ghosting seems to be a problem for many LED fitments. A number of people have seen it on the Transmission failure light. I'll talk to Gil as to whether there is a generic solution for this.
Cheers
Paul
With my hearing, I need a Big Ben, not a clicker😂 Have to say the LEDs have made a world of difference - I no longer drive around with the handbrake on, after operating the roof, for example!
I guess I was curious if the OP is still running the original flasher unit.
With my hearing, I need a Big Ben, not a clicker😂 Have to say the LEDs have made a world of difference - I no longer drive around with the handbrake on, after operating the roof, for example!
I guess I was curious if the OP is still running the original flasher unit.
Hi Man. I am not using the original relay looking flasher clicker device... Was replaced early on. For me it's suspect... I need to figure this out. I don't mind the ghost flash - I can't live with blown fuses and NO signals.
Drove for the first time today after a spell. Was installing electric fans for cooling. So far, so VERY good! Anyways,
Went for a drive this morning (to work - close to home), had replaced the blinker relay/switch while doing the fan job. Tested the blinkers (while parked and the car was sitting/running/idling) and they worked! Multiple tests, no blown fuse. Tested the hazards as well, all good
Got to driving this morning and POP. Fuse blew right away. NO blinkers (thankfully I go into work at 530am) AND no brake lights. Realized when I got to work and started investigating that the brake and blinker lights are on the same fuse. Replaced fuse, blinkers working, hit the brake (car sitting still) and POP. Fuse blown. Also, a slight draw-ish sound on idle when brake was depressed. Maybe my problem is in the brake circuit?
Yeah. This could get silly. I'm looking at this now. Interestingly,,, even the 3rd brake light isn't working. And, I get no signal on the dash (from the fail unit) that the brake lights are out...
So there is the brake switch, cruise control, hazard switch, and the relay itself all running off the green wire, fuse 5, 10amp. Fun fun fun. I may start with deleting the bulb failure sensor just as a starter...
Still, I don't think this rules out blinker circuit,,, which is not exactly separate from the G wire line to fuse.
JJJ
For a start, remove the tail light lenses and try with first one, and then the other, bulb removed. This might narrow it down to one bit of the circuit.
JJJ
For a start, remove the tail light lenses and try with first one, and then the other, bulb removed. This might narrow it down to one bit of the circuit.
Brother! I was just about to POST asking someone to help me simplify this hunt... Thank you!
08-17-2022, 08:28 AM
1990 Jaguar XJS - Blinker Fuse Repeatedly Blows
, so I removed that LED. Until I replaced the flasher unit, the turn signals were flashing super fast and I wonder if this might cause a load problem.
