Believe me. This is getting as tiring for me as I might be for some of y'all. But I guess putting miles on this car was BOUND to reveal things... There ARE things.

Me and my girl were cruising at a cool 50+mph over the weekend, headed to the sea, just driving along. Came upon and crossed a steel bridge, singing bridge, draw bridge, the kind with the metal grating that can cause an expected bit of tramlining on a good day.

When we hit the bridge my girl grabbed the dash and it was needed to slow wayyyy down... She said, an X machinist, well, "she" didn't handle THAT very well. It was not good. Like, dangerous. It can't stay this way.

- I've replaced ball joints upper and lower.
- New tires and alignment.
- Inner and outer tie rod sections a good while back.
- I put in OEM style steering rack bushings (I will change to poly)
- And although they look good, I may take a look at changing out the upper control arm bushings. Or tightening them??? I think they are ok tho.
- New Timken front bearings a month ago.
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I have had a look and the lower wishbone bushings and they definitely need attention... Cracked and dry, meat missing in spots that can be seen. Don't know what's going on in the spots I can't see... Car sat for 12yrs on the dirt.

I get lots of play at 3 and 9,,, almost none at 12 and 6.

I've shopped and there are a ton of options for the lower bushings. I want the Metalastic OEM Jag bushing and want to stay away from poly or bad rubber. Would love some direction (a link) if anyone has a trusted source???? I'll git some.

Then, in this thread, I am going to ask for help in swapping them out...

I wish I didn't have to do this. Believe me.

 

Jason,

Down here bushes like that would have the car deemed un roadworthy, so please take care.

SNG USA have the OE bushes.

You will need front and rear bushes, AND, the spring needs to be removed, SCARY TASK, and the rack removed, THEN the cradle lowered so the shafts can be driven out without hitting the engine, if they will come out. Those shafts rust into the cradle and/or the steel inner part of the bush, and many people have to cut them off, and fit new shafts.

It is a huge operation no matter which way you look at it.

 

Lots of bad memories and large repair bills come to mind. Poly (Superflex) on everythinh but lower bushings on my car did turn out quite well extremely sharp and responsive. Was quite the battle to get there had to use a blow torch due to 'rust-welded' parts.

If I might suggest...find everything you intend to remove now and begin soaking in liquid wrench and acetone for a good week beforehand. Any combo of acetone brake fluid trans fluid as long as your not hitting tires/brake lines/paint really is fine.

 

JJJ
Mark well Grant's post. You have to place a beam across the engine, you have to remove the road springs which requires the front of the car to be about 3 feet in the air, you have to undo the engine mounts, and shockers, and the rear subframe mounts, and then lower the subframe away from the engine/gearbox.
T, removing the lower wishbone pins may or may not be possible, depending upon corrosion in their tubes that go through the subframe. In my case (UK car) I had to remove the subframe completely and use an electric hacksaw to cut through the pins between the wishbone eye and the subframe. There is JUST room for a 2mm blade. Then I had to take a steel pin and an FBH and bash to pin remains till in the subframe out. It took 3 hours of bashing each side - impossible if the subframe was still in the car and not solidly on the floor or bench. Then I had to burn out the bush/pin remains from the wishbone eyes as they were solidly corroded in place.
Bushes MUST be metalastic, SNG own brand are utter rubbish - i used them and they lasted 500 km, and I have scary photos of their state after this time. manners have Metalastic, that is for sure. You will need new pins, and it is best to weld the "fixed" end in place, mine fell off when the pin was tightended!

OEM bushes can look very bad but still be effective. I have a question: what does the car track like on normal roads and long fast sweeping bends? If it is good, I think it is quite likely that you experienced violent scuttle shake, rather than a suspension problem. The convertible chassis is not at all rigid, far, far worse than the coupe which is excellent, even by modern standards. If the surface was like that on the 59th street bridge, I suspect that this hit the harmonic of the chassis and that what was causing the scary effects.

 

Jay-jag - post some pictures, I will follow up with some from my 89 convert, the bushes do not look great but the car drives well.
No issue at all YET!

 

Following that, and yes I had a C R A F T moment, and forgot you have a ragtop car, and that aligns with what Greg mentioned.

ALSO, my rule of "in or out" of those bushes is:

Look at the big castellated nut, and the washer behind it, WITH the car on the ground. If that washer is as near as damn it, dead centre with the eye of the wishbone, then the bushes are deemed servicable. OK, If that washer appears OFF to one side, then the bushes are finished. This is only for the front bush, and that is usually the one that is torn up more so than the rear bush, which is hidden by the rack.

 

On the subject of the lower bushes, how much would worn bushes have to be for the camber to be off. I ask because I feel (without having the alignment done yet) that the camber looks a little positive on the fronts. I did the uppers on one side and have yet to get to the other side. I was trying to straighten out the camber by replacing the uppers first as it is the easiest, to bring the top of the control arm out, but if the bottom bushes are still worn, they will tend to bring the bottom control arm out as it wears, increasing the positiveness of the camber. Can excessive positive camber cause tram-lining that JJJ is experiencing? When I got my car, the inside shoulders of the front tires were very worn. Possibly a combination of too much toe out and/ or positive camber either form worn lower bushes or adjustment.

 

Would that not increase negative camber rather than positive?

 

Worn lower bushes I have had and seen over the years usually have Neg camber and toe out, thus wearing the inside edge of the tyre savagely.

Your snaps are classics for sad lower bushes.

Like I said above, look at the lower washer, that is the easy, quicky tell tale.

 

Sorry yes, had it backwards. Inside tire edge wear is negative camber. Thanks.

 

Maaannnnnnn!!!! You guys are so so so so amazing!
I would need to quote all y'all! I'm sorry if I miss a response to all the perfect questions and ideas.

VERY VERY interesting about body rigidity differences between the coupe and the convertible. I did.not.know. But I wouldn't trade my convertible for the world.

Ok. So I have NO photos of the areas YET, but they will be coming. One of the WONDERFUL things about this machine is that there is NO rust. Waxoil was used well on her underside. I've been keeping that up adding more. Inspection of the bushings, bolt and sleeve - they look like they might not be caked and self welded in with rust and contamination. I will keep my fingers crossed.

I have a fancy shmancy engine brace/support.

Removed, installed, removed and installed again the steering rack, x4, in the earliest days so I'm not so worried about that. I will be replacing the bushings to poly bushing during this. I didn't know better when I first started on working on Cherry Pie. I have play (wobble) at 3 and 9,,, not 12 and 6,,, that I have attributed to the rack bushings, the lower and or upper bushes or ALL - OR a mistake I made in some of the other suspension work I have done/attempted.

I NEED to do motor mounts. I KNOW one (LH) is separated and has been since I started out. Its on the list and will be a part of this job. It will be getting done no matter what. Its needed.

The front subframe mounts (rounds) are new. Did those without making a thread. Rears will get done with this job.

I am pretty confident about getting the car up high enough. Completely uncharted territory for me is those damn springs, opening them up and controlling the spring pans travel. I've read a bunch about the 4 rod approach. The rod up the center approach and wonder which folks think is the more manageable of the 2? I have no problem getting a big old single threaded rod, placing it up in there, cutting an angle in a piece of pipe and turning it down... Which approach works better...? In y'all's opinion. And just for good measure what size single and quad threaded rod. I would like to get a HUGE single these, but will it fit top and bottom?

I have a situation. My building (containing my apartment) was sold and they are throwing all of our asses out. Looking forward to setting up shop in my new STREET garage about a mile away, lol... Looks like I may even end up with a NYC driveway at my disposal. I won't hold my breath for that but WILL keep the toes and fingers crossed.

This type of support bar... Should hold, right?
Doing the motor mounts on the 928.



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I had/have a little clunking but I have to say she handles and curves fine - I've cornered on state highways here doing 70+. Other than this moment I have to say that I hadn't thought I had an urgent must do now anything, at all.

Let me try to add a bit to my first description. Yes, hitting the grated road at 50 was a BAD situation. But even after I slowed, and went over the bridge slow on my way back, the car did not like it. Even at what I would guess was 30 to 35 it wasn't comfortable where unpredictably the nose of the car would tram off left and right to the point of needing to respond with the wheel and a real need to pay real attention. Mild *** clencher. It wasn't cool...

 

How are your shocks? Worn shocks can cause additional bouncing which causes the wheels to not plant itself firmly and loses road contact. Just thinking about it.

 

I've always had a hard time gauging shocks but I don't think they are terrible... They are DEFINITELY on the list of things I want/need to do, but with all due respect (and I am often shocked by how wrong I can be - especially with this car,,, if that makes any sense?) I don't think this,,, was that...

 

These bushings are just like "a pig in a blanket" a 1/4 in. or so of rubber surrounding a steel tube. When they perish they will allow a lot of side to side movement which will really mess up your alignment. When you look at the pivot shaft nuts you might see shredded rubber protruding from behind the washer. This is what you'll see when you remove the nut. I just replaced the two front lower bushes but they began to fail around 500 miles and were starting to ruin my new tires. I'm sure that I need rack, tie rods, upper arm and other bushings to be successful. It's the spring compressor that concerns me. These cars use very long springs and removing them safely is a major consideration. I don't think that

scuttle shake was the reason for your car's poor tracking. The shake is just a bit of vibration in the dash and doesn't affect the stability. Good luck in your project, I'll be watching . I'm just letting my XJS sit for now.

 

JJJ
That sounds to me like classic 59th Street bridge tramlining. If you are fine on the highway and on fast sweepers, I very much doubt your lower bushes are the problem. I would change the shocks first.
As for 3 and 9 and 12 and 6 on the steering, what do you mean?

 

12 and 6 refers to position on the tire. Top and bottom. 3 and 6 is the left and right sides...

Haha,,, I love how you talk about the 59th Street Bridge! I got stories bout that bridge. A buddy of mine used to sneak in at night and climb it to the top...

Hmm. I've been over many grated singing style bridges, this particular one in other cars, and I've never felt as at risk. I promise ya I'm not a squeeeemish,,, but this was too much. If I had been traveling at 65 or 70 mph,,, on a highway somewhere, and unexpectedly came upon a section of roadway - yeah, it could be a bad thing.

I'll try the shocks first. Don't know how I'll test it exactly less head back out to the Rockaways or find some other bridge. But it's an easier cheaper first thing, as opposed to what I am thinking to do. So, ok!

I'll also take the look-see Grant suggests and remove the castle nutt to see what I see, both sides. Also, my alignment was done by a PepBoys location as they were the ones that fitted the tires. There is a good trusted mom and pop here. Maybe I'll bring Cherry by there for a second alignment...? A second opinion.

 

JJJ
Explain, do you mean you can, wheel off the ground, move the wheel side to side on its stub axle? If you do, the check the wheel bearing nut tightness first. It should be just "at" no play, not tighter not looser. If you have loads of side to side play that would give you huge tramlining as the wheel can move under it own free will as if a steering motion. A bad lower bush would not give you side to side play you could make happen just using your hands on a wheel off the ground.

 

I will re-check, but yes, wheel off the ground, movement at the front and back 3 and 9 position on the wheel. To remind, I just did front bearings a month ago. The play I feel,,, in checking and recheck when doing the bearings and finishing doesn't/didn't seem to be the bearing. I was suspecting steering rack bushings - or something. But.I.did.not "think" (there's that word again) that either, rack bushings or bearing misadjustment could have THAT kind of affect.

Greg, I kid ya not, it was pretty drastic. Not to come off as squeeeemish,,, but it was unsettling. Especially thinking about it happening a little faster speed OR completely unexpectedly - or both.

 

OK, JJJ:

• Get the wheel in the air,
• check the stub axle nut for play
• adjust it out, just...
• then do the 3 to 9 rocking test and see exactly what is moving.

It won't be the lower wishbone as that will be held tight by about 3/4 tonne of spring pressure - even if the bush is bad.
My guesses are - always assuming the bearings are adjusted properly, which they might not be as they settle after a bit - as a matter of logic through the system:
Steering arm top bolt, stub axle end fixing bolt into the upright, or caliper bottom bolt not tight
Steering arm ball join going home/not tight
Worn rack allowing the rack to move against the pinion (VERY unlikely)
Rack bushes/rack fixing bolts not tight (a Grant Francis point)

All this assuming your wishbone ball joints are OK