Short story. When I dropped my rear cage, similar to the bolts on my ball joints (one bolt per side on the BJs), the pins on the wishbones would NOT torque down to fully tight. They got close, then, would not back OFF but would NOT go to fully tight. I've been keeping an eye on them AND have been driving her that way - WITH clenched *** cheeks! They haven't budged.

When will I be ABLE to drive this car without clench ***, lol?

The weather is definitely breaking, spring and summer in the air, and lady is looking at mapps and making plans - she likes the top down, even bought a silk scarf (OMG). Road trips. Gotta do something about the pins!

I have two new pins and like 10 new nuts. Nyloc, Grade 8, 1/2, 20s I think they are and will confirm that....

Anyways,,, and here's were folks might get mad at me. I have no intention of dropping the cage again or getting close. Has anyone done this with the cage in!? Any pointers? Is there a certain or special position, load on or off the wishbones that will allow the pins to slide in and out with less of a pinch? I had them out (came out nicely) when I did a super partial maintenance on the rear end. Replaced all the rings and bushes and such, and replaced the pins with lots of grease, so they have been out. Regreased a couple of days ago thru the little spigots.

I was intending to use a ratcheting strap to pull the case or outer frame of the cage together/tight, so NONE of the little bits and pieces (what's it like 16 little bits per side?) come misaligned or fall out.

Can I use the new ones to drive them out towards the rear of the car and cut off sections as I go, as the old pin runs up against the boot/body under there? Drill a small hole in the boot floor and drive them thru that, sealing up my holes later?

Any ideas, guidance, teaching - epiphanies and strokes of brilliance are moooore than welcome here. And no hate'n, lol

 

JJJ
Please explain with photo or diagram exactly which pins you are talking about, please.

 

Good morning, Greg!
In this photo, the fulcrum pin (is that what it's called?) #1...

 

I should add that,,, of the 4 nuts,,, 2 do and will thread on and off "normally'...

 

Number 1 goes through the inner fulcrum "dog bone" brackets (3 in your diagram) bolted on the diff. So you are saying the nuts each end of the pin cannot be done up tight against the subframe reinforced outer holes, and you can see threads between the nut and the subframe?

 

Nope... Thank goodness, no threads showing/visible. The nutts press right up and into the cage frame/subframe. They go down damn near completely tight, but won't and don't 'catch' for the final torque down...

Hahaha,,, I knew you (and others) would be 'looking at me' like I have 2 heads,,, but I really do have a sense of just how 'bad' (or not) it really is. But, I don't want to and won't be driving her anymore this way. I want and need to set it straight ASAP.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed (or something) when I have to report my occasions of halfassery. Members of the Porsche group and the x100 xk8/kr forums hate me for it, I think. But hey,,, we do what we can.

 

If they are solid against the subframe, leave well alone. If you are worried, undo the nut and bung a washer on there between the nut and the subframe, but it must be wide enough to go over the thick part of the pin.
It is not that easy to get the pin dead centre in the assembly front to back, and the thick unthreaded part of the pin HAS to go right through the assembly and into the subframe reinforced hole. You can therefore "run out" of threads on one end (effectively the nut is hitting the wide part of the pin and cannot be tightened further) if the other end is not done up quite far enough down the threads. Placing a WIDE enough holed extra washer under the nut that will not quite do up should do it.
BUT, you cannot guarantee that undoing the nut you want to undo will not turn the pin as well as the nut! So if this happens, undo the end that will undo, and bung the washer under that! It will when done up, pull the pin solidly against the other end!
Under NO circumstances drive out the pin, of in your future will be days under the car getting the entire axle out and in gains with maximum pain and suffering!

 

I agree with Greg.

Centalising that stepped pin is CRITICAL,.

To answer your question in the #1 posting:

NO, repeat NO. The chances of all those other spacers, seals, seal runners etc dropping out of line, are far to high.

Way back, before Internet etc, I drove the pins out of my S2, ended up with a heap of odd looking bits on the floor. I only wanted to tighten the bloody dogbone bolts for heavens sake. Cradle out, 1st one, reset everything PROPERLY, never went in there again, and the current owner has not either.

HUGE learning curve for me, and cradle out became my standard procedure when doing anything other than brake pads on that rear end, it is simply easier.

 

I'm hearing you! Ok,,,

Hmm. Let me see if I can explain my 'plan'... And you know what they say about best laid plans...

The plan was to take my new pins and drive them thru to replace the position of the old - using the new to drive out the old - planning (there's that word again) to keep best and complete contact between the two, all the way thru the guide/housing/carrier. To keep everything "in place", the plan (omg) was to use a ratcheting strap of some kind to kinda crush in the bottom edges of that cage frame (I learned it was a bit flexy when I had it out and was working with it) to keep all of the tubes, bushes and spacers in place.

Thing is, I'd have limited room. I intentionally placed the pins with the bolts that wouldn't spin oft on the rear/boot side of cage (you'll hate my "logic") so IF they started to slide/walk and I wasn't aware, they would come up against the boot/body floor frameout and stop. The healthy NUT (the ones that will and do come off normally) are on the front side of the cage. The plan was to remove the NUT and use the good pin to push the old pin out with "light" hammer taps until I could remove the old pin completely and bolt it down...

Was even considering some kind of threaded sleeve (if one could be found) to keep the pins together... Not much luck there, yet.

And yes, as far as I can tell (and I may be damn wrong) is that the thick unthreaded part of the pin comes right into and thru the reenforced end of the cage frame, hitting the nutt and filling the space in the cage. If that makes any sense.

I don't feel comfortable leaving things as are. I have tobget these new pins in and be able to torque things down.

 

NOPE.

As you said, the pins will only come out forward, so you will need to get the pin out, and then slide the new in, and magically keeping all the bits in line.

BUGGA

The bad nuts are on the rear end, and thats the end you need clear for any attempt.

A threaded sleeve to join the 2, good thought, but then the body of the car is in the way.
Cut an access hole in the boot floor vertical, so the good nuts could be removed, sleeve fitted, and slide the whole thing through, some would, NOT me.

I say leave it alone, its tight, and thats the main thing. They should be "nyloc" style nuts, so loosening on their own is not a common fault.

 

I gotta processes, lolololol....

just let me say... i was going to drive the old pin out towards the rear,,, pushing with the new pin from the front side of the cage... cut the end (the nutt) off the old pin immediately (as soon as I had a little room with first few taps) on the rear side between the cage and boot vertical (great word for it) and drill a hole just big enough for the old pin to end up in the boot... that, or cut 3 or 4 inch sections off with a wheel as it passed thru the cage ...

I'll have plenty of room to work with on the front sideof the cage for all the tapping and driving out...

Please know, if I had a garage and work space for dropping the cage --- well yeah. But working on the street,,, I have to consider them limitations... i have to be wrapped up, thingsback together, in the space of a day...

lolololol,,, I gotta processes.
damn it!

 

JJJ
On paper, in theory, you might just get away with it. If you keep the bottom plate attached, plus do one side at a time (if you need to do both sides) the cage will not swing apart. BUT, as Grant says, the chances of it going wrong are pretty high! You only need one shim, spacer, rubber outer sealing ring, to get displaced and as Grant said, you have a pile of small bits on the road.
I do not quite understand why you need to swap the pins anyway. Are the old ones really badly worn, or what? If not, leave well alone, say I.
If you do try the "use the new one to remove the old one" method, I favour the cutting off the old one in slices idea, rather than butchering the boot - which is a bad plan all round.
But do have a plan about what you will do if it all goes wrong, the car will be undriveable.
Also, as Grant has just told me, if you must try it, the weight of the car MUST be off the axle before you try anything. The best plan would be to remove the road wheel, and disconnect the shocks first, supporting the hub on block. I feel the only chance would be to have a 2 inch long internally threaded "bolt" made, round on the outside to connect the new rod to the old one, the outside diameter being 15 thou under the pin outer diameter. Then drive them through "as one", cutting of the old one as needed. Still very very high risk.

 

Understood about undrivable....

I have to change them only because I cannot tighten them properly. When I had them out to replace all the spacers, washers and seals (I don't know the name for all little bits) and to examine them the pins didn't have a mark on them. They were fine. As were many of the rubber seals. The needle style bearings looked good too.

Here's the thing. I don't know if it's the threading on the pins that are toast, or if it's the bolts themselves. Clearly THATS worth looking into, and I will. For me, and this is just me, it's toooooo unsettling (long term) knowing that they can't be tightened down - and could fail.

It would be a WONDERFUL thing of all I have to do is turn a new nutt onto them - but I'm never that lucky.

I'll get some pictures up before I do anything.

 

Also...

Is there a best position to have the "dog bones" where they are exerting the lease force on the pin? I will have to have the car jacked up and on stands, so if I place a stand on the opposite side and use a jack to manipulate the side I'm working on,,, is bottomed out best? Close to bottomed? Or well jacked up under the doggone end? I'm imagining having some kind of a pry bar, moving the connection point of pin, bone and diff - and testing to get a sense of and alter the tension on the pin while turning one the bolt before I begin to TRY and drive the pin out... Gives me the heeeebby jeeebies.

That is,,, if I do this THIS WAY, at all.

 

OK, I'm confused and its F,,,,, COLD here and the Port has run out.

As it stands, do you have a thick, about 4-6mm, washer between the nut and the cradle face?????? Reading this a dozen times, I think NOT.

Sooooo, the pins are fine, as you say.

Get the washer needed, and the parts listing does not list a washer under that nut, but all mine have had one under each nut.

Cut a slot in one washer, and loosen the front good nut, tap the shaft aft, and this where the "fingers need to be crossed", and HOPE the thing slides aft enough to drop that slotted washer over the threaded section, between the nut and the cradle face. Fit a none slotted washer to the front nut (as the front nut will come off) and then tighten the assembly.

Do the other side.

That is what I would do.

The "fingers crossed" is for the event that the stepped section of that shaft/pin, at the rear end, is actually engaged in the cradle hole. If it is not, then you are stuck where you are now, and cradle out to do the job correctly is the only way.

The dogbones are a fixed item to the diff casing, and are not able to be moved/angled under normal conditions.

 

No. No washers... Anywhere where these 4 pin nut to the cradle are concerned.

From what I remember, I think I would have felt comfortable if counter holding the nutts allowed me to get a good torque down BUT counter holding (which was need due to spin) only resulted in endless spin, and no finished torque...

I have a lot to think about now and will be in a better spot after I spend some time under the car to see what I got.

I'll send some pics, too!

Thank you both lots!
Good day and
Stay warm.

 

Ok... Hell no!!!
Talk is cheap,,, to an extent, so is "thinking"...

Th th th thinking and ta ta ta talking about this is sure ah HELL of a lot easier, than doing.

IM OUTTA HERE!
It's a cage out deal...
Y'all were and are SO right!

This side ain't so bad.

Nooooo bloody way... Best laid plans, lolololololololol
thats my MIDDLE finger, haha