When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Did a bunch of stuff yesterday. Cleaned up pullies and replaced belt. No so bad a job. I have driven a few miles and will go back and retention. Completely pulled out the alt to starter wire, cleaned both ends to bare metal and replaced. Measured resistance while I had it out to find .1 or .2 with DMM set at 200 ohms setting (see photo)... It needed it - connection on the starter side was rough. My starter itself looks rough but has always kicked in smoothly to crank engine over (when the battery supplied power that is).
Found a BIG old heat shield bolt, the one closet to the fire wall on the RH side while was under the car. It was "hiding" for 1+yrs in a little nook where the steering column would come down in a RHD car. Dropped it into the twilight zone and considered it lost forever, lol
Anyways. Installed battery and fired her up. She started right off, well. No squeal from belt. First ever.
Came up to 14.1. I thought, good. As the car warmed and idle fell, it stayed at 14,,, 13.7,8... Good. Turned on headlights, falls to 12.5, 6, 7... Turned on blower to low. Falls to 12,,, 11.9, 8... No good. Brake at idle with other things on,,, furgetaboutit...
This is with car idled at 650 dead on. So, after holding pedal down to hold idle at 750 or plus and seeing an improvementi voltage stability, I decided to up idle. 750, or a little higher. So after some messing with the AAV idle screw and making sure the top of the butterfly gap is .0024 idle is 750 and idle voltage is better at 13.8 - 14.1, nothing on. BUT, if I turn on ANYTHING the voltage falls in what I THINK is MORE than what seems right. If I have the radio playing, the HVAC fan on with lights and hit the brake,,, forget it. Below 12v... Too far below 12v.
After, I got on the highway (yup I'm fearless like that) to go Brooklyn to see my girl,,, and if I turn on the fans or lights at 60mph,,, RPMs at 2100, 2200,,, voltage still drops more than I like. Mid to low 12s...
So I have more work to do.
I'm tempted to begin a warranty return process on the RockAuto alternator and see what they are willing to do.
This is with ALT to STARTER Cable out of car, casing is 100% intact, as is second under casing, touching probes at both ends of alt to starter cable. Need to source some new connection rubber boots. Need 3 or 4, actually. This on disintegrated. Removed all that and cleaned things up.
Although I dremeled may of the spades on many relays to clean bare metal over the weeks and months,,, I'm sure the innerdz of a few must be making contact with high resistance.
I get a significant volt or amperage drain when I turn in the headlights. This might be why. I'd bet my foot that 20 30yo relays MIGHT contribute to my issues... When I turn on the blowers, same thing.
The rubber boot on that starter alternator connection point might have not been touched for 30yrs, who knows? The boot turned to dust as soon as I started messing with it. I have a feeling that if I go and start replacing some of the relays, clean the contact points in some, do what I can, I my just get to the bottom of the voltage issues I'm having.
I started to clean this one up and the circled coil wire connection broke off - aka - I broke it, lol... Don't laugh,,, it was ready to "go home" as the photos suggest.
That looks like the "Load Dump Module".
I have had zero to do with them, other that what I have read over the years. Most delete them, and there are articles of how to in here I would think.
I would be very wary of doing that, unsuppressed load dump can be 100V which can break a lot of stuff.
Plugged in/up new headlight relay and voltage is in a much better place high beam low beam, BOTH! Next, new fuel pump, fuel pump relay, starter relay and main relay. Yeah, lol, somehow I ended up with a NEW starter relay. The magic of online shopping!
Somewhere down the road, pull the heater blowers (which seem to suck the most power) and see if THEY can be de-stressed in the way they run...
Ball joint bolts and bearings too... Then, the 1/2 20m (I think) bolts on the ends of my replacement rear wishbone pins...
Starting to look a lot like Christmas!
So in the voltage fight there has been some progress. I'd been thinking about the 30yo electrics, motors, bad connections and old wires. So I went about changing, replacing, cleaning up and scrapping off and the like.
Replaced alt belt! Helped! I have to back and retighten,,, which is NO fun. Who designed these pully adjustments, lol??? OMG
Replaced the starter relay, headlight relay, main relay. Helped! Next is the FP relay.
Replaced the old *** fuel pump. When and while I was working on the car, saving pennies, I replaced the completely mismatched fuel pump PO installed with a Mercedes FP that (if I remember) produced similar bar from a guy who sold it cheap cheap. Swap Helped with volt drop and, I think, I only did this yesterday, but it seems shes better fueling and less rich running. Well see.
Cleaned up all contacts and switches to do with brake lights. Especially 3rd brake light (on the boot) - the individual *4* copper plug spades were a DEEP brown with light corrosion. Brakes were pulling lots of current. Helped LOTS!
Cleaned up headlight contacts by removing headlights to get to the back of them. Same thing, copper a deeeep brown with fairly significant corrosion.
Replaced ALL fuses with new fuses.
Voltage is MUCH better and MUCH steadier. I still want and have to get in and deal with my blowers...
I am not really satisfied with the about the overall voltage of the car reacts to switching things on ie stereo, even charging my phone. When I have everything "going" which is inevitable and happens in a used car - brakes, lights on, stereo on, heater on low and a blinker on (which happens) I don't like how LOW it takes the voltage down...
But, cleaning up electrical connections and components helps a LOT! Can't over state that. It matters.
Thanks to ALL for your help and guidance - of course.
Glad I didn't have to deal with a slipping crank pully - YET, lol
My life is a bunch O yets with all these old cars. Can't wait to install my new grill,,, once I don't have to open the hood 4-5 times a week, lol
Driving along today, highway, voltage is at 13.8 13.9...
Look down at the gauge and digital read. Dash is super low, can't call it, and digital is reading 11.9, barely holding that voltage.
I let off the gas for a sec, highway, voltage climbs back up to "normal" 13.7, 13.8 (I've easily seen 14.1, 2 and even 3...) Keep cruising and it begins to drop again. Clench *** drive for the rest of the way. Get off the highway, it begins to climb - then goes back down to 11.9, 11.8,7 and the like.
Turn off the car, new AGM battery, car off, voltage goes UP to 12.4 12.5 and holds - Car off.... Start it back up, V back down to 11.9 car running.
When the voltage drops way low everything feels "normal". Maybe the battery is running the car at that stage and the alternator is sleeping, dead, blanked out? Alternator overheating? Belt is tight and looks good. New belt.
Mostly running sweet...
Alternator has been actually DRIVEN less than 4 months total since installed (sat for a while during other work to "restore" other things)... Alt did get a dose of motor oil tho due to the failing/failed plug in the timing chain cover...
Haven’t read the whole thread but in my car the gauge is always weird. With the car on and measured at the battery is always 13.2v-13.7v my gauge in the car will read anywhere from 13v normal or 11volts red zone or won’t even move. What’s weird is when I have the car sit for over a week and start it it will usually read 13v normal. But after driving and restarting the car will usually be in the 10v red zone area
Haven’t read the whole thread but in my car the gauge is always weird. With the car on and measured at the battery is always 13.2v-13.7v my gauge in the car will read anywhere from 13v normal or 11volts red zone or won’t even move. What’s weird is when I have the car sit for over a week and start it it will usually read 13v normal. But after driving and restarting the car will usually be in the 10v red zone area
forgot to mention car drives normal all the time
Hey Stran,,,
It really is the craziest thing. I think I wouldn't worry so much but before I purchased a new battery just 2 weeks ago I THINK this issue slowly killed the old battery. What happened last is that the battery wouldn't hold much charge to the point of barely or not starting and the car died in the parking lot when I was purchasing the new battery - on the last day...
When I am not at dead stop, idling, in gear and foot on brake (where V will drop down like normal) I MOSTLY get upwards of 13v like things are ok. When driving and the RPMs are over 1000 near always 13.5v + at least... Then it just drops. This time, unlike others, it seems to be stuck down under 12v when running no matter the RPMs. The voltage is actually higher with the car off. I get 12.4, 5 volts on the digital meter I've installed.
I have a new alternator on the way. Rock Auto (or the alt re manufacturer) is honoring the life time warranty. We'll see. I hope it is as simple as an alternator... But it is, it's the craziest thing. In the next days, based on what you observed, I'm going to take a reading directly off the battery while the voltage on the meter(s) is reading the 11.9, 8, 7 volts...
I HOPE this isn't some crazy shorting wire or electrical component *somewhere* in this thing. That will be a crazy chase.
This is a photo (supposedly) of the rear of the alternator that is being sent. I have a few questions.
As it is now, there are two small wires going to the D+ terminal. One goes to a small box on the inside fender wall, from the box it grounds in the pack of earth points at the top RH corner of the Rad. Heard it was some kind of serge protector
The other heads towards the larger wire loom and I GUESSED ended up being the lead for the dash gauge and the dash dummy light. Is that right and should they both be on the D+ pole? I simply re-connected things the way I found them when I replaced alt last year...
I was just reading a description of something that had been happening to car in this link. And part of this article describes what was happening to me, BEFORE yesterday.... Today voltage will NOT go above 11.9 (or less) when started. For the last many days, when I would start the car, the voltage would STAY at 11.9 - wouldnt budge... as soon as I hit the gas it would begin charging or the voltage would quickly go up to normal and stay - but NOT before.... Up to 14.1 or 14.2. it's like it would not achieve that kind of voltage until the revs were brought up at first start up. As is described in the quara article... Do I have the ground OR SOMETHING hooked up wrong?
As it is now, there are two small wires going to the D+ terminal. One goes to a small box on the inside fender wall, from the box it grounds in the pack of earth points at the top RH corner of the Rad. Heard it was some kind of serge protector
That small box is over-voltage protection device in case of battery disconnection, it may be fried. First of all you have to check if 12 volts coming in the wire from instrument cluster, ignition on. If not check instrument cluster charge indicator bulb and wiring. Also you have to check voltages between alternator body and engine, also between engine and car body/frame, car running with load on, lights, blower, ets, If voltage between any of mentioned is over 0.1volts you have to fix grounding problems. Check voltage directly on alternator, compare to voltage on battery terminals, if everything is ok disconnect protection box and leave only wire from instruments, you have to be sure that battery is well connected to prevent voltage spikes.
That small box is over-voltage protection device in case of battery disconnection, it may be fried. First of all you have to check if 12 volts coming in the wire from instrument cluster, ignition on. If not check instrument cluster charge indicator bulb and wiring. Also you have to check voltages between alternator body and engine, also between engine and car body/frame, car running with load on, lights, blower, ets, If voltage between any of mentioned is over 0.1volts you have to fix grounding problems. Check voltage directly on alternator, compare to voltage on battery terminals, if everything is ok disconnect protection box and leave only wire from instruments, you have to be sure that battery is well connected to prevent voltage spikes.
Things are going wrong so I could doubt everything I THINK I have done. But, the battery and it's connections are new. It's not uncommon for me to get 14v as a running voltage.
Warning light comes on and stays in for a bit after starting. It will STAY on after starting, and when I hit the gas a little light will go out and voltage will shoot right up to normal. Before that, right after start up, it won't go over 12v and the light will stay on.
I have a solid heavy new wire going from the alt mount to the body of the car, good ground, but I will double check.
I will also check engine ground generally to frame/body of car...
What wire(s) connect to the D+ post on the alternator?
Does that ground wire that goes thru the box connect there?
Connect only wire from instruments to D+, leave protection device disconnected (have thrown away it long time ago, there are couple of zener diodes and resistors inside as i remember)
and one more thing remove voltage regulator from alternator and check if brushes are moving freely
Connect only wire from instruments to D+, leave protection device disconnected (have thrown away it long time ago, there are couple of zener diodes and resistors inside as i remember)
and one more thing remove voltage regulator from alternator and check if brushes are moving freely
Ok. Will do. I had/have a trip planned at the end of this week and my intention was to drive Cherry Pie for her first extended-ish trip. I'll be damnd if that can't happen.
So, I have a new Remy Alt that should be here tomorrow. A warranty thing. Just so I can know/or not that it is or isn't the regulator, I will remove it. I will also disconnect the black box, which I had reconnected trying to restore things back to "normal",,, whatever that means.
Is what's circles in red the regulator? And, what will I be looking for? I DO BELIEVE a fair amount of oil HAD to make its way into this alternator a while back...
Two brushes are spring loaded, they should extend like shown on pic. And there must be no oil on them
Got ya. I started googling images as soon as I sent the last reply... I was just out trying to pull the VReg off the old one with it still completely in place. No luck. Not enough room for even a stubby phillips on one of the screws... I'll get it off tomorrow early and post a pic. New alt should be here tomorrow.
I HAD planned installing some new Volvo motor mounts on my 1986 Porsche 928 tomorrow. Damn! The alt shouldn't take too long.
It's crazy. Sometimes I will get 14.3 volts from the damn thing, now this. It's only one year old. The oil dribbling out of that damn timing chain cover oil plug must have wreeeeeked some havoc. I'm actually HOPING that's what the problem is and a new alt will solve it. Could it be as easy? I doubt it, lol
This damn car doesn't want to cooperate!
And I give her so so so much attention, lol
Check this (+) terminal behind the engine and the other one on the other side, if there is poor or loosen contact in either one you will end up in catching ghosts
Check this (+) terminal behind the engine and the other one on the other side, if there is poor or loosen contact in either one you will end up in catching ghosts
T
Thanks for the help, Dave - and ALL... Really... I cleaned those up on both sides. Then 100 other spots, grounds included, and a new battery - sheesh... Some new relays, all fresh fuses, cleaned light connections - I could go on.
Limited money seems to make it so rather than spend money one doesn't have,,, one will do 100 things (all good) that are free and good overall...
Thanks to Rock honoring there warranty (new ALT), I didn't think they would,,, looks like I'll be headed up to Boston tomorrah after all. About my longest journey...
I took the old alternator out today (a pause from ripping the underside of the 928 apart to swap in some new motor mounts - WHAT an improvement!!!) and removed the regulator. This is what I found. And I HOPE when REMY get the old alternator they don't void the warranty because I opened it. I just HAD to know.
I've never seen the innerdz of an alternator and a regulator before but I could tell this one wasn't so healthy. One of the 2 springs seems to be pinned down in the slot and the bars just fell right out. Is that right?
Post swap,,, lights on, heat on, foot on brake blinker on,,, I have 13.2, 3 + crazy! 14.2 14.3 nothing on... Fully warmed at idle about 700 - 725 RPMs...
Thank you all for letting me drag you down this road with me as I banged my head against the wall refusing to spend the money. Sometimes I think I'm going nutttts...
Great to hear that all's fine, from what I see from pics it's cheap aliexpress China regulator, brushes just have very thin wires that have broken and all electrical contact was maintained only by springs.
Positive side of the story you have overhauled lots of things.
04-15-2020, 10:29 AM
