350 Chevy engines to replace V12
#201
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Serviceability is certainly a concern. But it is when they are stock too.
Mine has a scangauge OBD readout mounted where the trip computer was and is 90% a 96 Impala SS as to the drivetrain.
Need to clean them up but we made pretty good notations (just because we'd forget a decade later) as to what wires spliced in where
in the factory wiring diagrams.
As far as such things go it really wasn't that bad, the engine/trans harness for an LT1 is fairly self-contained. But as I said before if you can't do the work yourself and service it later, woe be unto you.
You're going to get killed by any competent shop that will even touch it, unless it's some bone simple
quadrejet on a 350 with no electrics to speak of. Which is fine but kinda going backwards imo.
I think the original swap kit was from Johns Cars or something like that.
Most people are never going to modify a motor, chevy or jag, to any great extent for daily street use. I'm sure the v12 is a beast when tuned, and it's certainly pretty.
With the tall gears and the OD trans the LT1's low and midrange torque are quite good in this car for driving around, even fairly spiritedly. It's not fast but I suspect it's not
any slower than it was with the 12, and that it gets better mpg and is more pleasant to drive in town and has certainly been cheaper and easier to maintain in the long run.
Only problem that's presented with this LT1 in almost 15 years now are typical, the shorty headers rusted out (swapped to rams horn manifolds) and the optispark finally started
acting up a few years ago. Did an individual coil kit and it's been back to opening the hood for oil changes and that's about it. I rebuilt the valve body for the 4L60E with
a few reliability upgrades a year or so ago, it'd been setting an OD slippage code as they do after a while, but it seems happy again now. Trans was rebuilt when the motor
went in. It really is drivetrain-wise a mid 90's Impala and behaves about like you'd expect one to. There is a lot of appeal in that. Everything works, nothing is weird, turn
key and drive. There's still been some jag related stuff to fix here and there but nothing worse than a similar Mercedes or what have you.
I've love to have a v12 car to fiddle with and if they stay cheap I likely will, but I suspect this is a better setup for daily driving in a lot of ways.
If you can meet and manage the qualifiers.
Mine has a scangauge OBD readout mounted where the trip computer was and is 90% a 96 Impala SS as to the drivetrain.
Need to clean them up but we made pretty good notations (just because we'd forget a decade later) as to what wires spliced in where
in the factory wiring diagrams.
As far as such things go it really wasn't that bad, the engine/trans harness for an LT1 is fairly self-contained. But as I said before if you can't do the work yourself and service it later, woe be unto you.
You're going to get killed by any competent shop that will even touch it, unless it's some bone simple
quadrejet on a 350 with no electrics to speak of. Which is fine but kinda going backwards imo.
I think the original swap kit was from Johns Cars or something like that.
Most people are never going to modify a motor, chevy or jag, to any great extent for daily street use. I'm sure the v12 is a beast when tuned, and it's certainly pretty.
With the tall gears and the OD trans the LT1's low and midrange torque are quite good in this car for driving around, even fairly spiritedly. It's not fast but I suspect it's not
any slower than it was with the 12, and that it gets better mpg and is more pleasant to drive in town and has certainly been cheaper and easier to maintain in the long run.
Only problem that's presented with this LT1 in almost 15 years now are typical, the shorty headers rusted out (swapped to rams horn manifolds) and the optispark finally started
acting up a few years ago. Did an individual coil kit and it's been back to opening the hood for oil changes and that's about it. I rebuilt the valve body for the 4L60E with
a few reliability upgrades a year or so ago, it'd been setting an OD slippage code as they do after a while, but it seems happy again now. Trans was rebuilt when the motor
went in. It really is drivetrain-wise a mid 90's Impala and behaves about like you'd expect one to. There is a lot of appeal in that. Everything works, nothing is weird, turn
key and drive. There's still been some jag related stuff to fix here and there but nothing worse than a similar Mercedes or what have you.
I've love to have a v12 car to fiddle with and if they stay cheap I likely will, but I suspect this is a better setup for daily driving in a lot of ways.
If you can meet and manage the qualifiers.
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Jim5_0 (09-25-2022)
#202
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I'll begin by saying that I'm not a purist and have no objection to engine swaps :-)
My personal experience (4 Jags as daily drivers over 25 years) is that the Jag engines (6 or 12 cylinder) have been the least problematic part of ownership. It's the non-engine-related stuff that has kept me most busy!
(Aside: a few days ago, for just the second time in those 25 years, my Jag was on the back of a tow truck. Failed radiator hose. The other time, in 2004, was my fault. I left a connection loose after detailing the engine bay)
One mitigating factor with V12 ownership is that, over the decades, all the problems have been identified and the fixes known....pretty much like an SBC or LS motor in that respect. It's actually easier to keep a V12 healthy and running now than it was decades ago.
My present V12 Jag has been my daily driver for several years. The biggest problem, and one I don't know how to fix, is the low quality of many replacement parts. Even if you buy Jaguar-labeled parts you are not getting the true OEM-quality because original suppliers are defunct or simply no longer making the part.
Anyhow, a V12 isn't the right choice for everyone. But it's exactly the right choice for others. Is as much about mindset as anything else.
Cheers
DD
There's still been some jag related stuff to fix here and there but nothing worse than a similar Mercedes or what have you.
(Aside: a few days ago, for just the second time in those 25 years, my Jag was on the back of a tow truck. Failed radiator hose. The other time, in 2004, was my fault. I left a connection loose after detailing the engine bay)
I've love to have a v12 car to fiddle with and if they stay cheap I likely will, but I suspect this is a better setup for daily driving in a lot of ways.
If you can meet and manage the qualifiers.
One mitigating factor with V12 ownership is that, over the decades, all the problems have been identified and the fixes known....pretty much like an SBC or LS motor in that respect. It's actually easier to keep a V12 healthy and running now than it was decades ago.
My present V12 Jag has been my daily driver for several years. The biggest problem, and one I don't know how to fix, is the low quality of many replacement parts. Even if you buy Jaguar-labeled parts you are not getting the true OEM-quality because original suppliers are defunct or simply no longer making the part.
Anyhow, a V12 isn't the right choice for everyone. But it's exactly the right choice for others. Is as much about mindset as anything else.
Cheers
DD
#203
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Low quality parts is the bane of all older cars now, even Porsche is getting sketchy with some of the only available aftermarket stuff and I used to be able to get nearly anything factory if one had the pockets for it.
It's a vicious circle too, the cars get cheap, a market for cheap parts opens up, someone fills it with parts that don't last, the cheap car buyers buy cheap parts and they don't last, so a bunch of cars
full of cheap half crapped out parts end up for sale, at a higher price than they were bought for before being full of crap parts, and either one of us suckers has to spend a bloody fortune fixing them or
they just get parted out. Been watching it from all angles for several decades now. There's a lot to be said for modern understanding of things with the benefit of decades of time to identify issues as well,
and proactively addressing those issues. There are people driving around 80's GM diesels cars now that have done just that, if you can believe it, for example. And they may have actually had a worse rep
than pre-Ford Jaguar lol....
Part of ones experience with the v12 I suspect is not unlike buying any other fairly non-standard and somewhat complicated old car, it depends on how far gone what you're starting with is.
Weather you spend $2500 bucks of $15000 bucks is (should be) a big difference in how much grief you're likely to experience. I've always bought cosmetically good examples that were
mechanical basket cases for cheap and then refreshed everything mechanically so I know where I'm starting with european cars. It's fun, if not profitable. Not so easily done these days but it was good fun ten or
fifteen years ago. Buying something cheap and expecting it to be in good order and last or just to fix things as they act up is asking for trouble if you intend to use it regularly. You can get there eventually
but it's generally cheaper and a heck of a lot less trouble to just buy something nice to start with.
It's a vicious circle too, the cars get cheap, a market for cheap parts opens up, someone fills it with parts that don't last, the cheap car buyers buy cheap parts and they don't last, so a bunch of cars
full of cheap half crapped out parts end up for sale, at a higher price than they were bought for before being full of crap parts, and either one of us suckers has to spend a bloody fortune fixing them or
they just get parted out. Been watching it from all angles for several decades now. There's a lot to be said for modern understanding of things with the benefit of decades of time to identify issues as well,
and proactively addressing those issues. There are people driving around 80's GM diesels cars now that have done just that, if you can believe it, for example. And they may have actually had a worse rep
than pre-Ford Jaguar lol....
Part of ones experience with the v12 I suspect is not unlike buying any other fairly non-standard and somewhat complicated old car, it depends on how far gone what you're starting with is.
Weather you spend $2500 bucks of $15000 bucks is (should be) a big difference in how much grief you're likely to experience. I've always bought cosmetically good examples that were
mechanical basket cases for cheap and then refreshed everything mechanically so I know where I'm starting with european cars. It's fun, if not profitable. Not so easily done these days but it was good fun ten or
fifteen years ago. Buying something cheap and expecting it to be in good order and last or just to fix things as they act up is asking for trouble if you intend to use it regularly. You can get there eventually
but it's generally cheaper and a heck of a lot less trouble to just buy something nice to start with.
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Mguar (09-24-2022)
#204
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I do get tired of trying to explain the difference between Gross horsepower and net. A Chevy 350 had to have 350 horsepower which must be more than the 262 of a V12 ? What’s DIN Net anyway? Come to think of it what’s Gross horsepower and why is it different?
How come the old cast Iron 6 cylinder (designed during WW2) 4.2 makes 265 hp with only 238 cu in
While the more modern V12 with 326 cu in only makes 262 horsepower?
How come I keep saying the Chevy 350 has only 160 SAE Net horsepower? Is that because of smog equipment? What do I mean the 454 has only 230 SAE Net horsepower? Why that’s less than a Jaguar V12. Which has 262 DIN Net horsepower?
How come the old cast Iron 6 cylinder (designed during WW2) 4.2 makes 265 hp with only 238 cu in
While the more modern V12 with 326 cu in only makes 262 horsepower?
How come I keep saying the Chevy 350 has only 160 SAE Net horsepower? Is that because of smog equipment? What do I mean the 454 has only 230 SAE Net horsepower? Why that’s less than a Jaguar V12. Which has 262 DIN Net horsepower?
#205
![Default](/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I do get tired of trying to explain the difference between Gross horsepower and net. A Chevy 350 had to have 350 horsepower which must be more than the 262 of a V12 ? What’s DIN Net anyway? Come to think of it what’s Gross horsepower and why is it different?
How come the old cast Iron 6 cylinder (designed during WW2) 4.2 makes 265 hp with only 238 cu in
While the more modern V12 with 326 cu in only makes 262 horsepower?
How come I keep saying the Chevy 350 has only 160 SAE Net horsepower? Is that because of smog equipment? What do I mean the 454 has only 230 SAE Net horsepower? Why that’s less than a Jaguar V12. Which has 262 DIN Net horsepower?
How come the old cast Iron 6 cylinder (designed during WW2) 4.2 makes 265 hp with only 238 cu in
While the more modern V12 with 326 cu in only makes 262 horsepower?
How come I keep saying the Chevy 350 has only 160 SAE Net horsepower? Is that because of smog equipment? What do I mean the 454 has only 230 SAE Net horsepower? Why that’s less than a Jaguar V12. Which has 262 DIN Net horsepower?
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Mguar (09-24-2022)
#206
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wolf_walker (09-25-2022)
#207
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It was a heck of a cool car, I really miss it and based on the insane pricing I see online I'll likely never get a 2nd chance.
The parts availability killed me though, all my cars work for a living, and if I can't find parts and fix them it keeps me up at night.
Great car though, totally undeserving of the reputation.
The parts availability killed me though, all my cars work for a living, and if I can't find parts and fix them it keeps me up at night.
Great car though, totally undeserving of the reputation.
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