Agree that someone must have been in here before looking at all the different things i have found.

As for rope or lip seal you have lost me, looks like i have some more study to do on that. If there is any easy way to tell please feel free to educate me

I have contacted my jag guy who might have a crank so will wait and see, if not then the ones on ebay will be my next call.

I guess this weekend will be cleaning, cleaning then more cleaning of parts. I think i will be spending the next month just cleaning parts and building another list of parts to be fixed or replaced.





The timing chain is 100% being changed along with the broken gear all vacuum pipes and water pipes. The £200 + timing chain tensioner i was not sure about, the one i have taken off has no cracks although the chain has made a couple of grooves on the leading face. I guess if i am this far in it makes sense to swallow the cost and just replace it, i wonder if i should be thinking the same with regards to the timing gears as well?

 

That is a rope seal crank. Lip seal is a 1 piece neoprene seal. Jaguar changed the seal in 1989 from engine no 66783

Rob Beere is the one to talk to regarding converting the rope seal block to Lip seal, it requires machining the block.

 

As Warren has said, rope rear main seal.

A seal sizing tool (Jag tool) is really needed to size the new seal/s so they dont leak. It is possible without that tool, but you need the knack of having done many in your career. If they leak, the crankshaft MUST come out again to do it over, bugga.

Those sprockets look "odd" to me. Almost whoever went there before forgot to trigger the tensioner properly, so the engine has been running with a "slack" chain, which would partly explain the missing teeth of that jackshaft sprocket.

Please do NOT forget to include the jackshaft bearings when buying your bits and talking to the machine guy. Many I know have not done them, then they "spin" in the block causing oil starvation due to the oil holes now being misaligned.

There are different V12 crankshafts apart from the rear seal update. The early engines, manual trans and BW12 Auto had a "small" spigot hole in the rear flange centre. The TH400 (yours) has a LARGE dome shaped spigot hole, so watch out that the shaft you chase is for a TH400 with rope rear main seal scroll, or the transmission convertor will not fit up, and you will most certainly become an alcoholic in a heartbeat.

 

Greg, please excuse slightly off topic, what cast iron head do you speak of. I remember cast iron block XK (my first car had this) but can't place any iron head.

 

I thought that the old Jaguar engines had cast iron heads, like most 1950s and 1960s UK cars. Probably wrongly, as yours had an ally head? The point, anyway, is that any ally headed engine will not need valve seat changes as it will have hardened valve seats as standard, and quite a few people seem to think the V12 needs seat changes to enable it to run lead free petrol, when it does not.
Greg

 

The SS series and the Mk4 and 5 using the Standard engine in various sizes.

 

Warrjon
Sadly, when I recently enquired, Rob Beere could only convert 6 cylinder XK engines from lip to rope seals, and was not able to offer a V12 conversion. I would be pleased to hear if that has changed.
Greg

 

well my jag guy had a crank but it was also no good on one of the conrod journals.

I have messaged the ebay seller to see if one of the three cranks are the one i need and within spec so will have to wait and see.

My Jag guy says he might have a lip seal engine that i can have, engine block and the crank £550. If not he may have a rope seal engine that i can have crank for £150.

The down side i would need to strip the engine and see if the crank is good then give back the remaining bits. Still no charge untill i get the crank out and get it checked so not all bad. Hes away until monday and would need to check what engines he has first.

Starting to realise that the rebuild might not be so straight forward as i was hoping and that yet again "special tools" can add to the cost in a huge way. So far managed by very basic fabrication of sheet, tube and plate metal. This rope seal tool looks like its to special for me to make anything near it.

Really starting to wonder if a low mile engine (with lip seal) might still be the way to go and start the strip down process all over again

 

The rope seal sizing tool an be hired from the JEC reasonably cheaply. I think that providing you find a crank OK, and you will, that will be that from the special tool viewpoint. The sizing tool is only an accurately sized piece of steel tube with a T handle through it! Take the rebuild slowly, at the end of it you will KNOW you have a good engine and can be rightly proud of what you have done. Cannibalising the bits you need from a replacement is always a good plan though, especially if you can just take what you need from your guy and give back the un-needed bits.
A replacement engine will always be an unknown quantity, so as you are 90% of the way there with this one, I say stick with it, rather than in effect start again.
Greg

 

Yeah, I've side tracked on more than one occasion. It usually means
two or three steps backwards... Then, catch up and go forward, unless......


I got to thinking about that crank with the one questionable journal.
What does the bearing shell that was on it look like? Just smoothly down to copper? Or scored as well. If not scored, just mebbe. Not to
totally discard the opinion of the professional's finger nail test...


Journals can and are regularly cleaned up with strips of emery cloth. By hand, a lot of work. Wrap a strip around it and pull each end, back and forth, oh so many times.


Now, the pros have a specialized lathe type machine. Center the
offending journal and spin the entire crank. A large handle with a swide strip of emery is applied. Reset the crank for each journal.
On a V12, not an easy task... It just might clean u enough so as to not.


School chum Roy "polished" the journals on his "A" with valve grinding compound. Two engines done that way ran really sweet.
But, not a high revving V12 !!!!!


Carl
score the bearing and mess up the clearance.

 

So my XJ-S is an 89 with its original engine number 67xxx. That means I should have the lip seal, right?

 

diam, should be able to see from the rear of engine block, shape of rear main cap.

lip seal is large diameter than rope!

when i did rebuild of my jag V12 1978 , spent careful time checking and installing rope(have done many engines with rope seal).

anyway was fine for about 2/3000 miles t hen started to leak slowly, got progressive worse, but recently has leveled off,but still leaks some!

found by trial/error, run more vacuum in case, and lower oil level in sump(about 1 quart low), TWR racing idea. HEY it works!

other than that my V12 is oil tight!

 

This is what I looked at almost at the bottom of the page. Maybe its the crankshaft only mod, although it says no mods needed to the block

http://www.rob-beere-racing.co.uk/ne...cts.html#12lip

 

Correct that will be a lip seal engine

 

Well had contact from the ebay seller and they can not confirm that the three cranks are in good condition and are being sold spare/repair as thats how they got picked them up in a job lot of parts so i wont take the risk.

One for just over £500 also on ebay but looks to be lip seal so no good as well.

Jaguar XJS V12 5.3 L 82-91 CRANKSHAFT | eBay

Another nice looking one for just over £1,700.00 with bearings but not interested at that price.

Jaguar V12 Crankshaft & Main Bearings. Jaguar XKE III, XJS, XJ12 ... /// | eBay

I was hoping that these would be more ready available but it does not look like they are so will have to wait for my jag guy and fingers crossed he has a engine around with a good crank. At this point even though i would prefere a lip seal set up i would settle for just a good crank for the block i have.

Any ideas on other online sites to check out are welcome as i am sure ebay is not the only way to go.

Will spend the weekend cleaning parts and will report back next week once i have any more news

 

This is a long way away but it's cheap, maybe worth dropping them a note

JAGUAR XJS XJ12 5.3L V12 CRANKSHAFT | Engine, Engine Parts & Transmission | Gumtree Australia Toowoomba City - Glenvale | 1115827374

This looks like a Marelli engine so should be lip seal

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Jagua...YAAOSwhcJWGkeH

Or these guys

http://www.grublogger.co.uk/pages/catxjs/Nengines.html

If you can get an early 6.0L engine, these had forged cranks, O'ringed injectors (no more hoses) and serpentine belts

 

Thanks for posting this link Warrjon. As it says this is going to be "available soon" I have just rung RBR to ask if when and if it will work for a V12 HE of my year. The definitive answer is that the current conversion WILL work but only for Manual gearbox conversions. HOWEVER, they are working on a version that will work for an automatic and it should be ready in a few months, maybe a year, not more. Very helpful nice blokes at RBR, that is a fact. The reason is something to do with the flywheel/flexplate differences.
As someone who has nearly all the parts ready for a full rebuild, this is great news! Also even better, is the fact that the block seems not to need machining, just the crank.


Best regards,
Greg

 

Also worth asking Simply Performance, I have never dealt with them, but they have loads of spares.
Greg

 

That's not a given so engine number would be needed for confirmation. Marelli was introduced prior to lip seal.

 

Agreed, here are the engine numbers
Lip seal 66783
Marelli 64245