6.7L V12 build
#201
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
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Only ever seen 1 go on a 'normal' engine. Only ever seen 1 Lister engine without the problem! Had them cracked on a road race car with the TWR pistons and STD capacity, yes it was raced. Just something to consider if upping the power. Removing that ridge is in the TWR (road engine) prep book, as per the engine pics I posted, Group 44 used hardened ali caps but later changed to steel, dont know why. We do a version of these TWR did a steel version, much more sculptured and hence more expensive to produce but I am sure we will do soon, My lad has just put them on CAD in preparation. Had a quick look for the prep book but it doesn't fall to hand, I tell a lie, found it and will post up. Of course you are all utilising the 2 middle water holes in the heads aren't you ? Just thought I would drop that one in there.
xjr5006,, nice information about main brg. caps,(mine are not modded like that), never thought i would get into thet kind of stress! so far no problems!
a little off topic here warron.
back in 1964 i was building a race engine(CHEVY long stroke,5/8" .625 thou). supercharged rootes type.
was aware of main cap probs. was investigating steel caps(4 Bolt angled outer bolts 1/2" US coarse std cast iron block).
well during that era Vietnam war effort,i worked at the GE general electric factories, lots of unusual machining materials laying around huge shops.
i showed a professional tool&die machinst guy, explained possible stress stuff!
he said he could make some caps up in the shop, well about a week later he gave me the 3 center caps, finished, but i said "what the hey is the material"
he said a NEW type of metal used in gas turbine helocopter engines, SUPER STRONG!
whats it called ,BERILYUM, OK i trust you hope it works!
of course never gave any signs of movement or cracks etc.
but in that same engine( must have had the universe helping me).
needed some good aluminum con rods,to fit the chevy MOLDEX 4340 steel stroker crankshaft, they said call Mickey Thomson race parts ,California, ok
called and explained my needs, they sent me the most beautiful 7075 forged
aluminum rods, NOW they had the rod cap angled at a 45* , with serated parting line , hollow alignment dowels with oversized 12 point cap bolts.
seemed shame to put them in an engine!
any way engine at dyno shop made close to 950 HP at 8300revs.
drag raced it , had fun, sold everything, had a divorce, and ,moved to FLA,USA.
moved on in life! but to this day, i think about those Berylium main caps, whats the chance??
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xjsv12 (02-02-2017)
#202
Cant get engine shops to work with Beryllium in the UK. wont even entertain Cu Br valve seats. Too many problems with its carcinogenic effects. It was banned even in F1 years ago. I remember 15 years ago everyone who did Carbon Fibre on the JPS Lotus cars had died from cancer except 1 last guy who was getting bits cut off or out an an all too regular basis.
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#203
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good thing i dont live in UK!
i,m 83 yrs old and still happy, no health probs. some small aches and pains,nothing i cant live with .
i have heard of the dangers of Beryillium, but no one i know has had any probs.
but as we should all know just about everything we touch or eat will gives us cancer!
i have worked my entire usefull life with all types of materials, I donno!!
my V12 has had the seats replaced with that Cu Br, or at least some type metal that is a Cu(copper) color, engine was from England , refurbished 1984 somewhere around Kent.
i,m 83 yrs old and still happy, no health probs. some small aches and pains,nothing i cant live with .
i have heard of the dangers of Beryillium, but no one i know has had any probs.
but as we should all know just about everything we touch or eat will gives us cancer!
i have worked my entire usefull life with all types of materials, I donno!!
my V12 has had the seats replaced with that Cu Br, or at least some type metal that is a Cu(copper) color, engine was from England , refurbished 1984 somewhere around Kent.
Last edited by ronbros; 02-02-2017 at 04:45 PM.
#204
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was reading that by the middle of 1983 TWR had there main caps made by GKN,UK.
so just maybe they had probs.
altho Gp44 was using steel caps, back 1979 onward.
excerpt from Allen Scott book , there was some political Bull crap looming about the relationship between 44 and TW.
but 44 had close to 10yrs before TW came to be.
so just maybe they had probs.
altho Gp44 was using steel caps, back 1979 onward.
excerpt from Allen Scott book , there was some political Bull crap looming about the relationship between 44 and TW.
but 44 had close to 10yrs before TW came to be.
#205
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ronbros (02-03-2017)
#206
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#208
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I am laid up ATM with a broken hand. I can't hold a fork, so I can't do any more work on my heads until I get my plaster cast off, very frustrating.
I was almost finished installing my new GM electronic cruise control, I'll do a separate write up on this install as it's cheap and easy.
I was almost finished installing my new GM electronic cruise control, I'll do a separate write up on this install as it's cheap and easy.
JON take it easy, all good things in time!!
#210
I found the little engineering shop that made the main caps for TWR, they still exist and I had them make my last 2 batches of caps.
Tom Seal procured for both 44 and TWR and both often got exactly the same parts.
I have a pair of 44 GTP heads that are TWR castings!!! Having said that I am 95% sure these are the very same castings as used by Broadspeed.
I dont believe GKN made the caps, I dont believe many of the 'known facts' about who developed what any why. 44 rebuilt and updated my car 006 for TWR in 87 so there where at least business relations between the 2 as late as 87. I also believe 44 had the better (more powerful engines ) but that is and should not be a surprise as GTP was not fuel restricted as was Group C
I know why Dyksta fell out with 44 but cannot tell the story whilst certain people still live; Guess I have come across quite a bit of privileged information. since I have been racing v12's since the 80s and had access to both 44 in Winchester and TWR at Kindlington (and even went to TW's ranch. Ron Beaty was aslo a real card and supplied TWR their 1st race engines for the XJS. I not only love these engines but also the stories and the politics involved.
Tom Seal procured for both 44 and TWR and both often got exactly the same parts.
I have a pair of 44 GTP heads that are TWR castings!!! Having said that I am 95% sure these are the very same castings as used by Broadspeed.
I dont believe GKN made the caps, I dont believe many of the 'known facts' about who developed what any why. 44 rebuilt and updated my car 006 for TWR in 87 so there where at least business relations between the 2 as late as 87. I also believe 44 had the better (more powerful engines ) but that is and should not be a surprise as GTP was not fuel restricted as was Group C
I know why Dyksta fell out with 44 but cannot tell the story whilst certain people still live; Guess I have come across quite a bit of privileged information. since I have been racing v12's since the 80s and had access to both 44 in Winchester and TWR at Kindlington (and even went to TW's ranch. Ron Beaty was aslo a real card and supplied TWR their 1st race engines for the XJS. I not only love these engines but also the stories and the politics involved.
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#211
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thanks xjr5006, yes i suppose you have more personal information than most, when it comes to 44 and tw, related to jaguar business dealings!!
some say tw was a tough nut to crack, things went his way or not at all!
hey more power to him, a shame he has passed. who knows what may have been?
i dont know if i mentioned , back 1987 after the 44 was winding down there race program, my shop being in Daytona, the driver of the race transport truck came by the shop(un beknownst to bob) and opened up truck so we could view the car, stayed couple hrs, talked trash stuff about the races, usual B-crap.
and have no fear ,(I LOVE THE V12s AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE).
some say tw was a tough nut to crack, things went his way or not at all!
hey more power to him, a shame he has passed. who knows what may have been?
i dont know if i mentioned , back 1987 after the 44 was winding down there race program, my shop being in Daytona, the driver of the race transport truck came by the shop(un beknownst to bob) and opened up truck so we could view the car, stayed couple hrs, talked trash stuff about the races, usual B-crap.
and have no fear ,(I LOVE THE V12s AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE).
#212
Hello Warren
What do you think about the sealant, adhesive for sleeves?
When I examined its own motors, I have not found some of the sealant, only there is carbon deposits.
First time I used hylomar blue from Jaguar JLM9709. It dries quickly, does not have time to insert the sleeve.
Thanks Nikolay
What do you think about the sealant, adhesive for sleeves?
When I examined its own motors, I have not found some of the sealant, only there is carbon deposits.
First time I used hylomar blue from Jaguar JLM9709. It dries quickly, does not have time to insert the sleeve.
Thanks Nikolay
#213
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xjsv12 (02-27-2017)
#214
#215
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i used Blue Hylomar also 22 yrs no leaks!
i also used HYLO for the Mazda rotary housings, between the housing and end plates!
a good sealent for tight metal to metal seal pieces, developed by RR, something to do with RR Merlin engines! maybe they had some leak troubles ,LOL
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xjsv12 (02-27-2017)
#216
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Hello Warren
What do you think about the sealant, adhesive for sleeves?
When I examined its own motors, I have not found some of the sealant, only there is carbon deposits.
First time I used hylomar blue from Jaguar JLM9709. It dries quickly, does not have time to insert the sleeve.
Thanks Nikolay
What do you think about the sealant, adhesive for sleeves?
When I examined its own motors, I have not found some of the sealant, only there is carbon deposits.
First time I used hylomar blue from Jaguar JLM9709. It dries quickly, does not have time to insert the sleeve.
Thanks Nikolay
i use Blue Hylomar, and it never dries or hardens, leave the cap open and its stay gooy for months.
your stuff may not have been GENUINE HYLOMAR, but it does come in other manufactures, i think RR has a patent on it tho??
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xjsv12 (02-27-2017)
#217
Thank you for your input
Is this what I need?
Hylomar BLUE Universal Gasket & Jointing Compound Sealant 100g - Fuel Resistant | eBay
http://hylomar.com/warrick/wp-conten...ue-Issue-8.pdf
Is this what I need?
Hylomar BLUE Universal Gasket & Jointing Compound Sealant 100g - Fuel Resistant | eBay
http://hylomar.com/warrick/wp-conten...ue-Issue-8.pdf
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Jonathan-W (02-27-2017),
ronbros (02-27-2017)
#218
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Location: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
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Thank you for your input
Is this what I need?
Hylomar BLUE Universal Gasket & Jointing Compound Sealant 100g - Fuel Resistant | eBay
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-8524.../dp/B0018PSATY
http://hylomar.com/warrick/wp-conten...ue-Issue-8.pdf
Is this what I need?
Hylomar BLUE Universal Gasket & Jointing Compound Sealant 100g - Fuel Resistant | eBay
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-8524.../dp/B0018PSATY
http://hylomar.com/warrick/wp-conten...ue-Issue-8.pdf
YES that should do the trick, you could always put a little out and leave open for some time days, if it does not dry ,good to go!!!
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Jonathan-W (02-27-2017)
#219
While I'm laid up I thought I'd put the wife to work helping me make a new flow bench. The old one worked but was clunky a PITA to setup with the leaf blower.
The new one will in 2 parts, the vacuum box and the bench connected by 100mm PVC pipe. The basic principle is suck air through a pipe connected to the head. Measurement of CFM is accomplished with the pitot static probe in the pipe and the test pressure is measured in a manifold under the bench.
I'll post pics of the bench tomorrow.
I also needed a way to open the valves. Most benches use a dial indicator, there are 2 problems I see with this setup, 1 the dial indicator MUST be inline with the valve or there will be triangulation error and 2 its time consuming.
So I machined a set of gauges from Perspex to open the valve in 1mm increments. 1mm to 8mm are pretty close but 9.5mm I kept a poofteenth under at 9.47mm.
The new one will in 2 parts, the vacuum box and the bench connected by 100mm PVC pipe. The basic principle is suck air through a pipe connected to the head. Measurement of CFM is accomplished with the pitot static probe in the pipe and the test pressure is measured in a manifold under the bench.
I'll post pics of the bench tomorrow.
I also needed a way to open the valves. Most benches use a dial indicator, there are 2 problems I see with this setup, 1 the dial indicator MUST be inline with the valve or there will be triangulation error and 2 its time consuming.
So I machined a set of gauges from Perspex to open the valve in 1mm increments. 1mm to 8mm are pretty close but 9.5mm I kept a poofteenth under at 9.47mm.
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#220
While I'm laid up I thought I'd put the wife to work helping me make a new flow bench. The old one worked but was clunky a PITA to setup with the leaf blower.
The new one will in 2 parts, the vacuum box and the bench connected by 100mm PVC pipe. The basic principle is suck air through a pipe connected to the head. Measurement of CFM is accomplished with the pitot static probe in the pipe and the test pressure is measured in a manifold under the bench.
I'll post pics of the bench tomorrow.
I also needed a way to open the valves. Most benches use a dial indicator, there are 2 problems I see with this setup, 1 the dial indicator MUST be inline with the valve or there will be triangulation error and 2 its time consuming.
So I machined a set of gauges from Perspex to open the valve in 1mm increments. 1mm to 8mm are pretty close but 9.5mm I kept a poofteenth under at 9.47mm.
The new one will in 2 parts, the vacuum box and the bench connected by 100mm PVC pipe. The basic principle is suck air through a pipe connected to the head. Measurement of CFM is accomplished with the pitot static probe in the pipe and the test pressure is measured in a manifold under the bench.
I'll post pics of the bench tomorrow.
I also needed a way to open the valves. Most benches use a dial indicator, there are 2 problems I see with this setup, 1 the dial indicator MUST be inline with the valve or there will be triangulation error and 2 its time consuming.
So I machined a set of gauges from Perspex to open the valve in 1mm increments. 1mm to 8mm are pretty close but 9.5mm I kept a poofteenth under at 9.47mm.
Last edited by Daim; 03-21-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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