Aftermarket ECU?
#21
07-23-2018, 11:50 AM
Veteran Member
Really funny... I haven't been on this board in a few months, but I got on here today looking for ECU solutions, and I found your string here. I have an '89 TWR that I recently converted to a Getrag 265 5-speed with my 5.3L V12.
A couple years ago, my Brit ex-pat mechanic recommended that I contact AJ6 Engineering in the UK. Its principal, Roger Bywater, was the chief engineer responsible for emissions systems at Jaguar in the 1980s. He designed/coded the ECUs originally installed in the XJ-S. He sells something he calls a "Super-enhanced ECU" for the XJ-S. He claims it improves fuel efficiency and horsepower. I communicated with him for several months before purchasing because I wanted to make sure the ECU would not affect my emissions and that I would continue to pass California smog tests.
So Bywater assured me it would pass smog here. I bought a used ECU from Just XJS (eBay site, based in UK), and had its proprietor (Andy) ship the ECU to Bywater for re-programming. Bywater won't give you a new ECU, you have to send him yours or a suitable substitute. I didn't want to be without my original ECU, so I bought the used one, a 16CU, I believe, to be compatible with my car. He programmed it and shipped it to me. He said he would provide special mapping for the Getrag 5-speed manual. All told, I was about $750 in with the new core, reprogramming and shipping.
I put it in my car last October when I finally had my transmission conversion project completed. It ran terribly with the AJ6 Engineering ECU. Ran super rich, flooded the engine, hesitating and gurgling and missing all power. I complained to Bywater, who offered no real suggestions for adjustments. I returned the original ECU to the car and it ran fine, although not super exciting. Manual transmission makes it a totally different car, the OEM ECU ran fine with the 5-speed, just not extraordinary.
I complained to Bywater that his ECU did not work. I suggested to him that his ECU was improperly programmed. I asked him to examine it. I spent $150 shipping it back to him in the UK, he charged me about $150 to check it and ship it back, but he told me "nothing was wrong with it, it must be your car." I researched other boards and found another board where a guy bought a Super-enhanced ECU from AJ6. He described symptoms very similar to mine and said he fixed it by subbing out his old throttle potentiometer for a new one, saying that the OEM ECU didn't rely on its feedback as much as the SE-ECU does. I emailed Bywater and asked if the throttle pot might be the key. He THEN tells me that would be the first thing he would have checked, along with the O2 sensors. I directed him to ship it back to me. I finally got it back early July. In the meantime, I ordered a new throttle pot and O2 sensors from Barratts to install. My mechanic did all that for me, got the throttle pot adjusted precisely. The AJ6 SE-ECU still didn't work, doing the same thing.
So now I have $1,000 into this Super-enhanced ECU and it doesn't work. I'd like to find a way to make it work in my car. Open to suggestions as to what other adjustments I may need.
A couple years ago, my Brit ex-pat mechanic recommended that I contact AJ6 Engineering in the UK. Its principal, Roger Bywater, was the chief engineer responsible for emissions systems at Jaguar in the 1980s. He designed/coded the ECUs originally installed in the XJ-S. He sells something he calls a "Super-enhanced ECU" for the XJ-S. He claims it improves fuel efficiency and horsepower. I communicated with him for several months before purchasing because I wanted to make sure the ECU would not affect my emissions and that I would continue to pass California smog tests.
So Bywater assured me it would pass smog here. I bought a used ECU from Just XJS (eBay site, based in UK), and had its proprietor (Andy) ship the ECU to Bywater for re-programming. Bywater won't give you a new ECU, you have to send him yours or a suitable substitute. I didn't want to be without my original ECU, so I bought the used one, a 16CU, I believe, to be compatible with my car. He programmed it and shipped it to me. He said he would provide special mapping for the Getrag 5-speed manual. All told, I was about $750 in with the new core, reprogramming and shipping.
I put it in my car last October when I finally had my transmission conversion project completed. It ran terribly with the AJ6 Engineering ECU. Ran super rich, flooded the engine, hesitating and gurgling and missing all power. I complained to Bywater, who offered no real suggestions for adjustments. I returned the original ECU to the car and it ran fine, although not super exciting. Manual transmission makes it a totally different car, the OEM ECU ran fine with the 5-speed, just not extraordinary.
I complained to Bywater that his ECU did not work. I suggested to him that his ECU was improperly programmed. I asked him to examine it. I spent $150 shipping it back to him in the UK, he charged me about $150 to check it and ship it back, but he told me "nothing was wrong with it, it must be your car." I researched other boards and found another board where a guy bought a Super-enhanced ECU from AJ6. He described symptoms very similar to mine and said he fixed it by subbing out his old throttle potentiometer for a new one, saying that the OEM ECU didn't rely on its feedback as much as the SE-ECU does. I emailed Bywater and asked if the throttle pot might be the key. He THEN tells me that would be the first thing he would have checked, along with the O2 sensors. I directed him to ship it back to me. I finally got it back early July. In the meantime, I ordered a new throttle pot and O2 sensors from Barratts to install. My mechanic did all that for me, got the throttle pot adjusted precisely. The AJ6 SE-ECU still didn't work, doing the same thing.
So now I have $1,000 into this Super-enhanced ECU and it doesn't work. I'd like to find a way to make it work in my car. Open to suggestions as to what other adjustments I may need.
#22
07-23-2018, 12:31 PM
#23
07-23-2018, 03:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Austin tx and Daytona FL.
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you need to contact MS, here is a pic for a custom system close to COP, BUT not!
Electromotive crank triggered eliminate dizzy, i drove car seemed run well. but so dont my SDS drive well! mine pre-HE.
you see where the plugs go into chamber straight HE it is close to the exhaust valve , not recommended for performance engines ,much better to have plug close to INLET valve,cooling ,detonation control etc.
Last edited by ronbros; 07-23-2018 at 03:36 PM.
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xjsv12 (07-24-2018)
#24
07-23-2018, 04:26 PM
OK, I have to admit I'm not familiar with coil packs. In past I used to own a tune-up shop and knew everything I needed to aid my mechanics when needed. It was two decades ago.
Coil pack. Is it a coil that fires two plugs same time? Then there comes this polarity issue. Some spark plugs, like the NGK's I have, are designed for certain polarity, methinks?
Coil pack. Is it a coil that fires two plugs same time? Then there comes this polarity issue. Some spark plugs, like the NGK's I have, are designed for certain polarity, methinks?
#25
07-23-2018, 07:39 PM
Veteran Member
MS3 you can run full sequential, but you will need to add a cam sensor so the ECU knows where TDC 1A is. MS3 will run 12 coils
OK, I have to admit I'm not familiar with coil packs. In past I used to own a tune-up shop and knew everything I needed to aid my mechanics when needed. It was two decades ago.
Coil pack. Is it a coil that fires two plugs same time? Then there comes this polarity issue. Some spark plugs, like the NGK's I have, are designed for certain polarity, methinks?
Coil pack. Is it a coil that fires two plugs same time? Then there comes this polarity issue. Some spark plugs, like the NGK's I have, are designed for certain polarity, methinks?
Last edited by warrjon; 07-23-2018 at 07:45 PM.
#27
07-25-2018, 04:19 AM
Veteran Member
#28
07-25-2018, 05:01 AM
#29
07-25-2018, 11:07 AM
Veteran Member
#30
07-25-2018, 11:21 AM
I was thinking about this, too. Maybe not a good idea. There are sensors they need to share, or even if you install separate sensors the engine is still only one. Modern system gets feedback from engine, like RPM, vacuum level, etc. With two ECU's managing it there may occur what is known in computing world as "race condition".
#31
07-25-2018, 01:22 PM
Now I have another idea.
First, I do not want coil packs, these were yesterday. If I'm modernizing my engine management I do not want to use yesterdays technology. Besides, they have this spark polarity issue.
Second. There is an ignition system which uses two coils in parallel without ill effects. Actually, it even improves the spark. What do you know, the Lucas in my car ...
Third, if some reason two COP's in parallel still do not work it is easy to solve using electronic switches to separate them electrically. Parts from mouser.com probably will be less than $20.
Conclusion. Megasquirt-3 with MS3X will do just fine. No need for PRO.
Now I have to start thinking about those position sensors and how to install them.
First, I do not want coil packs, these were yesterday. If I'm modernizing my engine management I do not want to use yesterdays technology. Besides, they have this spark polarity issue.
Second. There is an ignition system which uses two coils in parallel without ill effects. Actually, it even improves the spark. What do you know, the Lucas in my car ...
Third, if some reason two COP's in parallel still do not work it is easy to solve using electronic switches to separate them electrically. Parts from mouser.com probably will be less than $20.
Conclusion. Megasquirt-3 with MS3X will do just fine. No need for PRO.
Now I have to start thinking about those position sensors and how to install them.
#32
07-25-2018, 02:02 PM
Senior Member
I’m not seeing the drawback of coil packs and wasted spark. There’s so little room around the AC compressor and the throttle tower that spark plug wires to a couple of coil packs where the distributor was seems ideal. And what’s wrong with a wasted spark? Seems largely harmless. It’s not like it’s just some hokey backyard idea, there are plenty of real production cars that use it.
#34
07-25-2018, 02:49 PM
OK, I just learned MS3X output cannot drive any coils directly, the output is TTL level signal. So there must be an "amplifier", they even have a unit called QuadSpark which does exactly that. Unfortunately they cost too much, you need three of them, and they are out of stock. So back to the drawing board and parts from Mouser.
#35
07-25-2018, 03:03 PM
#37
07-25-2018, 04:02 PM
Veteran Member
#38
07-25-2018, 04:27 PM
Well, I'm shelving this project for now. I'm getting tired of it. Will see if I can get the stock setup working properly.
In case I need to upgrade, here is what I want:
COP's, wide-band sensors with auto-tune. It is year 2018 and I'm not going to upgrade to yesterdays technology. Right now it seems I cannot have it. Motec and Haltech have forbidding price tag, they really are not meant for use with regular street engines. MegaSquirt probably is not willing to offer native 12 cylinder support because there is not much market for it. That's a shame. I was already dreaming of getting rid of all those clever vacuum circuits they developed in 1980. Imagine how much stuff could be eliminated if there was an affordable ECU like MegaSquirt. Just low voltage wires to injectors and COP's. No spark plug wires criss-crossed in vee. No vacuum hoses and valves anywhere.
In case I need to upgrade, here is what I want:
COP's, wide-band sensors with auto-tune. It is year 2018 and I'm not going to upgrade to yesterdays technology. Right now it seems I cannot have it. Motec and Haltech have forbidding price tag, they really are not meant for use with regular street engines. MegaSquirt probably is not willing to offer native 12 cylinder support because there is not much market for it. That's a shame. I was already dreaming of getting rid of all those clever vacuum circuits they developed in 1980. Imagine how much stuff could be eliminated if there was an affordable ECU like MegaSquirt. Just low voltage wires to injectors and COP's. No spark plug wires criss-crossed in vee. No vacuum hoses and valves anywhere.
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xjsv12 (07-26-2018)
#39
07-25-2018, 05:29 PM
