Morning all,
I want to regass my aircon on my 89 5.3. I know I need to change the fittings on the car to suit modern connections. Can anyone confirm that the red coloured fitting goes to the compressor and the blue one onto the pipe. I presume red is high pressure and blue is low. Many thanks in advance

 

I am presuming that you still have an R12 system if you have the older connectors and changing things is a little more complex than simply replacing them - rather than simply re-post the information go take a look at this link >> R12 to R134a

 

I see what you mean! Thanks for the help.

 

Or, you Could begin using HC-12a. It's a Straight across replacement, requires NO change in equipment, NONE!
Same compressor, same expansion valve, same evaporator, same condenser. I didn't change the dryer, I didn't even evacuate the old R-12 from the system (what would I do with it anyway? Purge it off into the atmosphere?? NO!!) before I put in 12a. It uses less gas (6 ounces fills the system), cools better, lower head pressure, no need for barrier hoses, equipment last a Lot longer.
I have used HC-12a for over 20 years in these Elderly AC systems designed for R12 with great results and stellar satisfaction.

Lately I have used Enviro-safe brand (I have NO connection with this company other than satisfied customer). Got it here.
Comes with complete kit if you need it. Directions on every can.
Check it out before you go throwing $$$$$ at your system.
(';')

 

Wow, I like the sound of that.

 

You'll like the results too. It cools even Better than our trusty old, Ozone Destroying R-12.
(';')

 

Not a readily available option this side of the water, known as Propane here ...

 

Could do with a UK supplier if anyone knows. Sounds like a good replacement.

 

https://www.es-refrigerants.com/?site=int

22a Master Recharge Kit INTERNATIONAL SALES ONLY

I have the impression they now ship international.
I have used for 5 years with no problems.
Rgds
David

 

Ideally, a mixture of 22% iso-butane and 78% propane.

I would not simply change the fill ports to the new style, as there isn't a need really. If you have a leak, you need to find and repair that first, rather than just recharging into a partially or fully discharged system. You want to get all the air out, as it's a non-condensable. It simply takes up space and doesn't provide any refrigative effect.

On V12's with the A6 compressor, the most common spot for leaks is where the hoses attach to the rear of the compressor. Many mechanics overtighten the retaining plate and bend it. Then it doesn't hold the hoses flush to the O rings and they can leak. The plate is really too thin, on GM cars and trucks that used the same compressor the plate was twice as thick and doesn't bend.

 

Seriously doubt you will find an auto AC place prepared to install it, I'm not entirely the use of any flammable hydrocarbon in motor vehicles as a refrigerant is even legal in the US, though it is an accepted refrigerant for static systems - EPA. I doubt the EU / UK would have a different opinion.

 

I'm in Canada and hydrocarbon refrigerants are widely available for sale. Duracool and Redtek are some brands.

I've used them for about 20 years with great success, one of the things I like is you use about 1/3 the amount compared to R12, and the system pressures are much lower. Where an R134 system might have 275 psi on the high side, I'll have 130-150 psi. That means less energy to drive the compressor too, as it doesn't need to make high pressure. I have bought all the AC tools to do everything myself, that is a great time saver plus saves a lot of money.

I aim for vent temperatures of 2-3°C and I can almost always achieve them. The one time I overshot and was getting air at -20°C from the rear system in my Daimler limousine. Mind you, that's as low as my thermometer went too!

 

Well, it's certainly not Illegal, not even in California where almost Everything that works is illegal. Of course I can't speak for Europe.

As for Flammability, 6 ounces of refrigerant isn't any more flammable than 20 gallons of pressurized gasoline in a modern EFI system and no one gives that a second thought. (However,the PR department of current R-134 patent-holders have done their job well in Terrorizing the Public regarding Non-Ozone Depleting alternatives.)

It's not necessary to have a shop install this stuff either. It can be had in kit form if one lacks the proper installation hoses and kit includes full instructions.

I've Never had a Pro install Enviro-Freeze, unlike the old R-12 Chrysler I had Professionally Converted to R-134 as the compressor bit the dust and I thought I might as well get on the 134 bandwagon. That required not only a new compressor but "barrier hoses," as the 134 molecular structure is so small it sneaks through regular R-12 hoses. (Barrier hoses didn't work and system leaked down in a year anyway.)

I was Deeply disappointed (I haven't been the only one, even in here) in the resultant "cooling" and changed over to the until-that-moment-unknown-to-me Propane/Butane mix of HC-12a.

Easy peasy. I started with one can (didn't have a set of gauges at that time) and if it wasn't cold enough, added another can. At most I only ever had to put in 2 cans to make it livable and that was for a car that had sat unused for some years.

IFF the AC system is Factory Designed for R-134 as they all are now, then of course that's best.
Otherwise, be ready for some Serious disappointment, especially on a HOT day.

Anyway, the OP will have to decide what to do. I can only relate my own personal experiences.
(';')

 

Well to each their own I guess, the EPA site would indicate differently, I thought breathing was illegal in California, coffee causes cancer yada yada ;-)

Like many things availability does not indicate legality - aka EGR and DPF deletes and a multitude of other 'bolt' on items - sure they're available as are the consequences for getting caught, and yes the decision remains with the OP.

That said the capacity for propane etc to burn is nothing on what an EV battery is capable of and they aren't doing a whole lot to identify or examine that "Lack of adequate assessment that characterizes incremental flammability risk" - which is why the EPA say HC-12 etc are unsiutable.

 

Pressurized glycol is flammable too. I used to work with stationary industrial engines and had more than one burn to the ground when a cooling line to the turbo fractured, spraying antifreeze on the turbo housing and it ignited.

I agree though, that care does need to be taken. That's why I said that that any leaks in the system need to be found and fixed first. Once you have a sealed system, then charge in the refrigerant.

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...enough-222239/
More on how to proceed with new refrigerant.
Yes it is flammable, but hard to ignite. 30 ounces in the engine bay is not like having 20 gallons in a closed trunk. Propane is heavier than air and drops out the bottom of the car quickly and expands quickly to the point of being too lean to be ignited. Everyone has one or two propane torch tanks in their garage, with more propane that goes into the car A/C system. Ever notice the cup on the flint lighter? Its there, because it is hard to get the right concentration for a spark to ignite.
Have a certified shop do a leak check and remove the old refrigerant.. Now you are 100% in compliance with EPA. There are certified shops in US that install the propane based refrigerants, but it is just as easy to do it yourself.
Rgds
David

 

Generally speaking, pressurized gasoline in modern EFI systems isn't traveling behind the firewall into the cabin with a paper-thin-wall heat exchanger by the passengers' legs. I know it's rare to have an Evap spring a leak in general, and everyone has different risk tolerances, but as a former firefighter I am not going to go the route of having the cabin cooled by a fuel. I know the amount is small and propane dissipates quickly, but for me it's not a gamble that's worth it.

And on the topic of EV fires, battery fires are NOT something I'd want to deal with, and I was glad that I never had to deal with one. SOP for battery fires, or even just thermal runaway, on fighter jets was basically give the most junior guy on the fire truck a shovel and set him to digging a hole next to the runway, and the rescueman would -- fully geared up -- open the panel to extract the battery, drop it in the hole, and grab a shovel to help the other guy bury it. Secondary option was a 55-gallon drum with holes drilled in the bottom of the wall of the drum, drop the battery in, then flood the drum with the handline (basically filling the drum, then dialing back the handline so the flow rate out the bottom gets matched by the flow rate into the top, drowning the battery to stop its access to oxygen while flushing away the chemical detritus). This was for ICE car battery sized lithium batteries. One that takes up nearly the entire floor of the car... not a fire I'd want to be anywhere near.

 

Have you resolved this problem Greg?

 

Me or the other Greg?

 

You Greg. Its something I bet you've looked at.