XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

Brake pedal going all the way down on my 95

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Old 05-22-2021, 10:11 AM
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Default Brake pedal going all the way down on my 95

Hey gents

per usual problems come in double, triple or quadruple form. My X type has a starting issue, and my XJS has a groaning AC and now a BRAKE PEDAL that goes to the FLOOR. Better brace myself when I take out the E type for what type of b!tch fit she’ll be having.

But no sense in complaining, just gotta get everything fixed.

THE ISSUE AT HAND...

my 95 XJS with the Teves III system has the pedal going to the floor for the first 30 minutes of driving and then seem to build enough pressure. Can anybody point me in the right direction? And I looking to drop the 1500 required for a refurbished actuator on eBay? No lights are on, the reservoir is full of fluid. Don’t know why things get normal after 30 minutes...

any help greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 05-22-2021, 11:35 AM
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Hi Spike

Sounds like you may have got some Air in the System or maybe Brake Fluid needs Changing, so this may help

As I accidentally found what I think may be the easiest way to Bleed the Teves

Which is Gravity Bleeding all 4 Calipers

(1) No helper required

(2) Ignition off at all times

(3) No touching the Brake Pedal until its all done

(4) As usual start with the Caliper furthest away from the Actuator

(5) Gravity Bleed about 250ml from each Caliper

(6) The result on my Car: ABS Light and Brake Warning Light Both out after only 5 Seconds and Brake Pump Stops Running only 10 Seconds Later (used to be 45 secs!)

Got to be worth a Shot in case it works for you as well as it did for me

Alex

Easy Way To Bleed The Teves Brakes
 
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Old 05-22-2021, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by orangeblossom
Hi Spike

Sounds like you may have got some Air in the System or maybe Brake Fluid needs Changing, so this may help

As I accidentally found what I think may be the easiest way to Bleed the Teves

Which is Gravity Bleeding all 4 Calipers

(1) No helper required

(2) Ignition off at all times

(3) No touching the Brake Pedal until its all done

(4) As usual start with the Caliper furthest away from the Actuator

(5) Gravity Bleed about 250ml from each Caliper

(6) The result on my Car: ABS Light and Brake Warning Light Both out after only 5 Seconds and Brake Pump Stops Running only 10 Seconds Later (used to be 45 secs!)

Got to be worth a Shot in case it works for you as well as it did for me

Alex

Easy Way To Bleed The Teves Brakes

thanks very much for your reply. I must admit I won’t be doing the work myself, because I don’t do brakes, it’s really out of my comfort zone.

the idea is I would just take either your instructions or the Teves instructions that Paul @ptjs1 has posted somewhere here to get them bled by my mechanic.

But does this failure mode with the break pedal needing to be pressurized and going to the floor for the first 30 minutes of driving sound like something that can be solved with a simple bleed? I have to imagine something mechanical has failed somewhere along the way......

Brakes are one of those things that need to be as properly done and as reliable as they can be regardless of cost, unfortunately. My mechanics labor is reasonable but I want to get an idea of what I am looking at getting replaced.
 
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Old 05-22-2021, 04:56 PM
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Hi Spike

Difficult question to answer without being there with the Car, so all I can say is that Gravity Bleeding the Brakes on my Car, worked a lot better than any other method that I have tried over the years and now my Brake Pedal feels perfect, as with Gravity Bleeding, while Brake Fluid is Flowing out, no Air can get it

If the Brake Fluid is long overdue for a Change then that could be a very good place to start, just in case some water has got into it

All the Best

Alex
 
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Old 05-22-2021, 07:08 PM
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Marhek,

That's a strange one. If it were my car, I would do the following in precisely this order:

1. Ensure reservoir topped to max line
2. Bleed low pressure pipe to accumulator and pump
3. Bleed wheel circuits as per Teves procedure. (I believe that OB's gravity bleeding on the rear calipers worked because the only bit of air that had been introduced was in the final part of the circuit after splitting the rear pipe when dropping the cage. I think your problem is much earlier in the circuit)
4. When bleeding is finished, turn on ignition and count how long before pump cuts out.
5. Assuming pump cuts out in less than 60 seconds, run the "Blink Test" routine at the ABS ECM.
6. Note all blink codes and clear them
6. Assuming all blink codes clear and don't return, run the 32 ABS tests (requires wheels in the air for some of the tests)

Then see where you are after all of that!

I'm sure it's possible for an actuator to fail, but I've never heard of one being the cause of problems. Accumulators? yes. Pressure switches? yes Pumps? yes Valve blocks? yes. But actuators? Not that I've seen.

Good luck

Paul
 
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ptjs1
Marhek,

That's a strange one. If it were my car, I would do the following in precisely this order:

1. Ensure reservoir topped to max line
2. Bleed low pressure pipe to accumulator and pump
3. Bleed wheel circuits as per Teves procedure. (I believe that OB's gravity bleeding on the rear calipers worked because the only bit of air that had been introduced was in the final part of the circuit after splitting the rear pipe when dropping the cage. I think your problem is much earlier in the circuit)
4. When bleeding is finished, turn on ignition and count how long before pump cuts out.
5. Assuming pump cuts out in less than 60 seconds, run the "Blink Test" routine at the ABS ECM.
6. Note all blink codes and clear them
6. Assuming all blink codes clear and don't return, run the 32 ABS tests (requires wheels in the air for some of the tests)

Then see where you are after all of that!

I'm sure it's possible for an actuator to fail, but I've never heard of one being the cause of problems. Accumulators? yes. Pressure switches? yes Pumps? yes Valve blocks? yes. But actuators? Not that I've seen.

Good luck

Paul

thanks for your help. I have been chasing down a starting problem on my X type and had not had time to look at this further. Tonight I wanted to drive around in my XJS and I like to drive the cars at least once every couple of weeks, I figured with my brake problem the best time is when there is no traffic …anyway, the “BRAKE” light came on and I came back home,popped the bonnet and noticed I was quite low on fluid. So it certainly seems like my problem is a fluid leak somewhere. I don’t see any fluid on the garage floor, but I guess I at least I know what my problem is (I think)
 
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Old 06-11-2021, 09:06 AM
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Accumulator is failing, or the o-ring is and prolly leaking. Check brake hoses too. I had the same issue. My accumulator was leaking at the threading point, and none of the fluid was leaking on the ground. It was pooling inside of the engine bay. Run your finger around the point where the accumulator mates with the pump and see if its wet.
 

Last edited by Brewtech; 06-11-2021 at 09:10 AM.
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Greg in France (06-11-2021)
  #8  
Old 06-11-2021, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Brewtech
Accumulator is failing, or the o-ring is and prolly leaking. Check brake hoses too. I had the same issue. My accumulator was leaking at the threading point, and none of the fluid was leaking on the ground. It was pooling inside of the engine bay. Run your finger around the point where the accumulator mates with the pump and see if its wet.
The accumulator ball is pretty recent, so is the blue pressure switch . I see no leaks in that area at all.

I have however, had a drip in the garage floor that I assumed is coming from the differential occasionally. When I had the fluid changed recently, the differential was completely full…. The drip is Right in the middle rear of the car. I am going to have to see if it’s actually a brake line leaking in that area
 
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:40 PM
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So gents, whatever was happening here, “corrected itself” with a little fluid and I have been driving the car for 4 days, even being bold with the stops I am making, and everything is back to normal. That doesn’t seem right. Did something get “stuck”? This is a weekend car for me, sometimes goes a month without being driven depending on weather and time.

What could have gotten “stuck” to cause this ?
 
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Old 06-15-2021, 03:22 AM
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Hi Spike

It may have been the Pressure Switch getting stuck, as has been know to happen that has now decided to correct itself so may now be a good idea to a least take the Car for a run around the block every couple of weeks (and carry some spare brake fluid) to get you home just in case it suddenly runs low

If the problem ever returns, then you could try bleeding the 'Low Pressure Side of the System' as in the past I have had similar problems and that has worked for me
 

Last edited by orangeblossom; 06-15-2021 at 03:37 AM.
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