Having replaced the Batteries on my XJS with some Brand New ones, the ones I took off are holding about 7.9 Volts which is really no where near enough, as I would like to use them on my 'Cherry Picker' to take down some heavy Branches that are literally hanging by a thread

And could easily fall on my XJS when I am backing her out of the Garage

I've only got a very small Trickle Charger which takes days to Charge a Battery plus my 'Vintage' Olympus Welder that is also a Starter Charger but I'm getting a Dead Short across the Mains Input Terminals

And though I think I may be able to fix it or at least find out the Cause of the Problem, I will have to use a Block and Tackle to lift the Welder out of its Box which holds around 5 Gallons of Oil to Cool it

So it looks like being a little bit of a long and maybe Complicated Job

And if that isn't bad enough, I've also got not One but Two! MOT Test's on the Bounce as where we live we've had nothing but Rain and Wind as well as Continuous Storms and so I'm playing 'Catch Up' and not getting anything done!

But getting back to the Battery, I've got a Small Stick Welder that has a Minimum Setting of 40 Amps and so would it be possible to use this to Charge these Batteries? and if so, how do I do this, as these are sealed Batteries Maintenance Free and I don't know how you can get to see inside them

So obviously don't want to do anything, that could pressurize them and make them go 'Bang!'

Is there away to see inside these Batteries as you Charge them, so you can see if they're Bubbling or not?

Help and Thoughts appreciated please Guys

Alex

 

Batteries are vented, but I would never use a 40A charger. That's a good way to boil it and cause an explosion. Getting a shower of acid will really spoil your day, not mention probably disfigure you for life.

I would get one of the modern CTEK style chargers designed for reconditioning batteries and if the battery can be saved, that type will do it. Otherwise, it's new battery time. Please don't try and "Heath Robinson" a battery charger, the risk of serious injury is too great.

 

I admit that I had to look up Heath Robinson, and I'm surprised I hadn't heard of him or the phrase before. He appears to be the English version of Rube Goldberg or actually the other way round, that Rube Goldberg is the American version of Heath Robinson.

Fun fact to know. Thanks!

 

Common to use a stick welder to "revive" lead acid batteries. I've done it a few time with good results. Some batteries can be revived with a welder and some can not. I've retunred 2 of 3 batteries I tried back into service with a 90$ Harbor Feight stick welder. At 150$ per battery saved, I'm way ahead at this point. One battery I tried was a stone and would quickly die after a day or two, now it's perfect. The other battery was in my track day Porsche and was weak from sitting partially discharged for a few years and would not start the car after sitting for just a few days even when disconnected. Now it's like new, I come back weeks later, reconnect the battery and it still has 12.2 volts and will start the car esily.

There is a very particular process and I always do this out doors. I start with about 10 amps and up to about 50 AMPS for short 10 to 30 seconds burts a few minutes apart. This breaks up any crust on the plates that prevent the battery from taking a charge. Then I check the voltage, if it reads 12.8V after a few Zaps then all cells are good and I'll put it on a 30 to 40 amp charge for a 30 to 40 min constantly monitoring it and listening for any thing odd. If the Volts are less than 12.8 there is a dead cell that will just get hot and then the elctrolite will just boil out and make explosive hydrogen gas. So stopping, listening, checking the battery temp and checking volts periodically is KEY to doing this safely. Slow is safe. There are thousands of YT videos on the subject and most come acrross as waco shady mad scientist drivel but in my case, I got the feel for it after a little while and was successful.

I recommend full face protection and a fire extinguisher at hand.

 

OB,

It depends why they are presently 7.9v. If it's because they just somewhat discharged, then you may be able to recover them. But it could be that you have one or two duff cells in the battery.

I would start by checking the acid levels. You say they are sealed, but the "seal" will only be a a strip pressed on the top of the cells which can be carefully prised off / pulled back. So, take off the sealing strip and look to see if any of the cells need topping up. Even if you just use deionised water, that will be sufficient, then put the sealing strip back.

Now put them on a trickle charge (assuming you don't have a proper battery conditioner?) for 24 hrs and see what happens to the voltage. After that, if they are still not at 12v, you may have a duff cell / sulphated plate. So, I would then try the shock treatment as mentioned by icsamerica. I've had some similar success using a high amperage charge that's capable of running 50+amps and used that in short bursts to shock the plates of sulphate buildup. If that doesn't work, I would then junk them. A duff cell battery is just a liability.

I'd also definitely invest in a decent conditioner. A CTEK MXS 5.0 is a great model. I have them on all my cars and bikes. But look very carefully around for price as it really varies.

Good luck

Paul

 

Hi Jagboi@Mac + likes by Greg @ Paul (ptjs) JJS-Florida not forgetting ICS America, who always has some interesting out of the Box ideas that have proved useful

Thank you all for your both Cautious and Sensible advice, that I am definitely taking on board, rather than to do anything Stupid (anything else Stupid!)

My big 'Vintage' Olympus Welder that is also a Starter Charger, goes as low as 2 amps except of course it decided to Stop Working and Trips the 15 amp Circuit when I plug it in

I've Checked the Plug and also the Mains Wire, all the way down to where it connects to the Terminals on the Welder and these Terminals are what seem to be the Problem as I get a dead Short across any of them when I Check with my DVM Meter

So having lifted it half way out of its Oil Cooling Box, I was kind of hoping I might find a duplicate set of Terminals under the Lid where the Wires might be touching each other but its too well made for that

Though having looked back in the Archives to the Year 'dot' 2006!
I managed to find someone who seems to have had a similar problem, that was apparently caused by 'Lack of Use' a bit like XJS's

Where in this case, Water Condensation had somehow built up under the Lid, which probably wouldn't have happened if the Welder was in regular use and kept Warm, or at least Warm enough to discourage Condensation (which is a big Rust Bug problem in the UK)

So my Plan, when I get a moment to spare, is to give those Terminals a big squirt of WD both inside and out and hope when Summer arrives the Heat will hopefully help to dry it out, if I leave it hanging up half way out of its Box

As for now I have decided to not take any Chances and will get an Intelligent 20 amp Charger from Amazon and maybe a New Battery for the 'Cherry Picker'

Thanks again for all your Help and as usual Saving me from myself!

Alex

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Great ideas as usual!

Where can I get one of those Conditioners of which you speak?

Maybe they have them on Amazon? but in any event any ideas on price?

Alex

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Yikes! one of those Costs more than a New Battery!

So I think I'll get a New Battery and an 'Old School' type Battery Charger until I can hopefully get my Olympus Starter Charger Welder working once again

Alex

 

OB,

In case, you're considering it, list price is about £117, but no-one need pay that. Cheapest I found on Amazon was £81, then I found this one new on ebay delivered for £68.

CTEK MXS 5.0 Battery Charger with Automatic Temperature Compensation, Black | eBay

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Still blinking expensive and still the price of a New 60ah (ish) Battery but my Top of the range one I bought for my XJS was about £80 money well spent as I don't want my Car stranded with a Flat Battery and though She's never failed to Start on the Button, there's always a first time! 'Sod's Law'

So I went down to Lidl (a well known quality Homestore in the UK) and picked up this 'Intelligent Battery Charger' discounted to £15 from £20 because no Box and No Instructions, so thank goodness for YouTube! 12volts and 5amps and doesn't look too different from the £80 one

So I'll hook it up to a potentially Worth saving Battery in the Garage and see how it goes but if not then I might give it a few 30 second 'Dabs' with my small Stick Welder, while being fully protected in Case the worst should happen!

Where I would be intending to Hook the Welder up to the Battery and then Switch it on for 30 Seconds from inside the Kitchen, so I will be well out of the way and will also try and remove that plastic panel that you mentioned before doing so

 

OB,

Those Ultimate Speed ones are apparently quite good for the money. Even if it not quite as reliable or robust as ones like the CTEKs, that's good value for £15.

Interested to hear how you get on with the battery. Check the electrolyte level first.

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Plugged in the Ultimate Speed Charger and one of the Batteries is already Fully Charged 13.2 amps with another one on the way!

Nice piece of Kit but the Constant Charging and Discharging Mode, made my Head Spin, although apparently its supposed to Charge and Discharge while its Charging, where going by the Comments that I read on You Tube, I was not the only one who was left a Bit Dazed and Confused

As it looks like its not Working, until you get your head round what its doing, so far so good and so lets hope it Starts the 'Cherry Picker' as those Branches that are hanging over my XJS are literally just hanging by a Thread and could come crashing down at any moment

 

Hi OB,

You won't charge that 12v battery to a sustained 13.2v with a 5a charger IMO. Especially if it was 7v only a few hours ago. It may have been at an indicated 13.2v immediately after you disconnected it, but that won't be it's stable voltage. I would go and check it again after 15 mins. And if it's not 12.6+ volts, put it back on charge overnight.

The charger doesn't "discharge" the battery. It just stops charging and will then cut back in as the voltage naturally drops. If you monitor the amp draw, you'll see that it drops to about 700ma at about 14.2v, or else maybe drops to zero. Then it cuts back in again at about 13.4v

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Point taken but only going by what it said on its screen, I will check it again Tomorrow and see how it is, as I'm a bit of a 'Newbie' at this sort of thing

 

OB,

Ah, I see what you mean. It was showing 13.2v on the screen of the charger, yes?

If so, that doesn't mean that the stable voltage of the battery is 13.2v. In the same way, that if I plug my starter / charger onto my battery and put it on the highest setting, it might show 17v, but if I disconnect it, the battery will then still only be 12.6v.

The charger will increase the amps and the generated voltage will rise until it is at about 14.2v. If the battery is in a good state, the voltage actually stored in the battery will then be about 12.6v.

Leave the charger on overnight. Disconnect it. Measure the battery voltage immediately. If it's not 12.5v+, the battery has a problem. Wait 15 mins, measure again. If it's not 12.5v+, the battery has a problem with one or more cells.

As mentioned before, make sure the cells are filled to the correct level before you start charging. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Great advice as usual that I will take on board, as Auto Electrics isn't really my thing but if I find something I'm good at then I will let you know, although I think I may have managed to Fix my 'Vintage' Olympus Starter Charger Welder, that word has it was one of the best ever made

But since it hasn't been Working since I dragged it out of the Shed, the Jury is out on that one for the moment

More about how I did that or thought that I had done that, will be written up on my 'Cherry Blossom' Restoration Thread including Photos