Hi Lnr
Also Please tell your Hubby, that I forgot to mention that the GF's Sass Levels are right off the Chain, which is something I have to put up with, in order to get a Big Discount on all of my XJS Spares (She knows all the right people!)

 

Exide Battery and Battery Tray With All The Trim Removed (very important to look for any signs of Rust and or Corrosion on The Battery Tray)


Overall View Of The Boot With Trim Removed (Note The Unused Space Saver Wheel And Jacking Tools)


Corrosion And Rust Free Battery Tray Is A Sure Sign Of An XJS That Has Been Well Looked After


Soft Top Motor Relays Uncovered


Unused Space Saver Wheel

External Views Of The Soft Top All Original With Not A Stitch Out Of Place In 28 Years!

 

Changed the Oil and the Coolant

Fully Charged New Battery

Crank Position Sensor was replaced 2 Years ago an that's OK

All The Spark Plugs Replaced 2 Years ago

6 Brand New (Not Recon) Uber Expensive Injectors Replaced 2 Years ago

Drained The Old Petrol and Refilled with E5 as I couldn't get Synergy this Close to Home
First thing I did was to Check the Fuel Cut Off Switch and that was OK but She is not showing any signs of even trying to fire(1) Fuel Pump Relay

(2) Main Relay

(3) Fuel Pump! Quite possibly the worst job in the World! I have done this job on a Similar Car and it is an absolute Nightmare! so I do hope its not That and I'm really wishing that I'd left it alone, as after all I'm Selling the Car, except that I cannot sell it as a non runnerSeeing as I didn't remove the Fuel Pump Relay or the Main Relay, I think those Components are Not causing the Problem and I have got a good Spark, so I don't think that the Fuel is getting to the Fuel Rail (conspiracy theory:1)

So the Plan is to disconnect the Fuel Pipe from the Fuel Rail and then put a bigger pipe over that Pipe and then hang that over the front Wing/Fender and then Turn the Ignition on and off a few times to see if any Petrol comes out of the Tube

If nothing comes out then that could be really Bad News! though with a bit of luck it could be an Air Lock

I'll try and let you know sometime Tomorrow (Weather Permitting)

If I was planning to keep this Car, then I would Junk that In-Tank Fuel Pump and Convert it to an external Fuel Pump like on Pre-Facelift V12's as in my view the In-Tank Fuel Pump was never a good idea!

All suggestions welcome if I can't get her running

 

A quick test I always like to run is to spray some starting fluid into the intake (or intakes if you have a Double Trouble v-12) and see if it tries to start. If it tries to start, you can reasonably assume that you have spark and your issue is related to fueling. If it doesn't try to start, it's likely ignition related but could also be an ignition + fuel issue too.

Just something to think about before you dig too deep.

 

Hi Thorsen

Many Thanks for that idea but I've had a couple of Plugs out and I've got a really good Spark

So the only conclusion I'm able to draw is that for some reason, She isn't getting the Fuel

I've tried Pumping the Accelerator but She isn't even trying

And while She would probably Fire on Starting Fluid, what I really want to do (at least to begin with) is to see as to whether or not She is getting Fuel to the Rail, as if not, then it could be Relays or maybe the Fuel Pump

Where that would almost certainly mean something like taking the Tank out and that is the job from Hell!

So let's hope that is doesn't come to that

 

Do the flow test, as you mentioned then, Alex. Good luck

 

Hi Greg

Cheers!

The Good News is we've got Fuel to the Rail and the FPR

I didn't need to put a Tube on the Pipe because as soon as I loosened the Nut for the Fuel Pipe into the Rail, Fuel came squirting out under pressure that had already been built up by Turning the Ignition Key ON and OFF about a dozen times

Exactly the same at the FPR that Holds the Pressure in the Fuel Rail

Conclusion: We've got good Fuel Pressure






Having loosened the Nuts on the Fuel Pipes you may be able to see Fuel dripping out

Double Checked the Fuel Cut out Switch by Tripping and Re-Setting it and that is Working OK

Tacho is also bouncing, which it wasn't doing before I fitted a New Crank Sensor (so that seems ok as well)

Looking like some sort of an Electrical Problem

So I'm going to Check all the Fuses under the Passenger Knee Pad but very strange that everything was working ok before

 

OB,

Well done on all the recommissioning work!

As you've got sparks (& presumably the plugs are still dry after turning over?) I would try a slightly different approach first. I admit that I have a slightly more positive opinion about the in-tank pump, possibly because I've never had one fail!

However, I would get an assistant (Yes, it may cost you an expensive dinner!) and verify that you can hear the pump running for 2 secs on Ign on position. Then you've verified 3 things, Main Relay, Fuel Pump Relay & Fuel Pump Fuse. If you can't hear the pump running for the 2 seconds, then check Fuse, Fuel Pump Relay & Main Relay in that order.

If the Pump is running on Ign on, then listen again on attempting to Start. If it now doesn't run, start to look at ecu connections.

If the pump runs on attempting to start, then I'd change the Fuel Filter, as it's been sitting in petrol for 25 years. Once changed, try turning over the engine before you connect the outlet union to the filter and see that you've got fuel outlet. Only after that would I pull the fuel rail connection.

Just a suggestion

Good luck!

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

Process of elimination:

Got Fuel Pressure

Got Electrics

So for some strange reason, I don't think that the Injectors are opening!

Going to try the Paper Clip 'Trick' on the Coolant Temperature Sensor

If that doesn't make any difference, then it could be the 'Crank Position Sensor' I've still got the Old one I took off and have heard that somehow they can get the Engine running again for no good reason at all (or else get a New One)

What say you Paul, does the Crank Position Sensor seem to be Chief Suspect for my no Start situation

P.S. If you've never changed an In-Tank Fuel Pump, then you are in for a Treat!

Not easy to hear the Fuel Pump as the sound of the 'Ignition Bells' tends to drowned out the Noise

G.F. refused to climb into the Boot/Trunk so maybe I'll leave a Bar of Chocolate in there! as I cannot remember a time when that ever failed!

 

Having tried almost everything to get my Car to Start, I seem to remember a similar problem a couple of years ago, which was fixed by fitting a New Crank Position Sensor LHE 164OAA

I'm not sure what goes wrong with these, except I've been told that they can go flaky for no reason at all, so I've decided to get a New Crank Position Sensor and hope that does the Job but first I had to take the Old one out




Not strictly necessary but if you take the Top Hose off, then you can see what you're doing a little bit better




The CPS Braket and Toothed Reluctor Wheel




That's the Nut you have to undo to remove the Crank Position Sensor from its Bracket




Make Sure the Bracket doesn't fall out when you remove the Crank Position Sensor, as you can hardly see what you're doing and its also quite a fiddly Job but also quite doable by the side of the Road if you have to

 

OB,

Logic says it isn't the CPS, but it COULD be!

1. You said you had sparks when it was cranking. That IMPLIES the CPS is ok.

2. You haven't yet confirmed if the pump is running with the starter motor churning. The fuel pressure buildup could be from the Ign on pump routine, but you need to know the pump is running and maintaining pressure when the starter is operating.

So, the CPS could be at fault, but if it is sending the signal that is enabling the ignition circuit to run, then the pump and injectors should also be triggered.

I'd go back and confirm the pump is definitely running when the starter circuit is operating.

cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul

Good idea!

I'll undo the Pipe that goes to the Fuel Rail and poke that inside a bigger diameter Tube and then hang that over the Wing/Fender and then Crank the Starter and see if I can get Petrol squirting into a Container

If I do get a Flow of Petrol, then it's a lot more likely to be the CPS

Does that sound like a Plan?

 

OB,

I'm not quite sure I agree. You said that it's sparking when being turned over? That implies the CPS is sending a crank signal to the ecu. And as the CPS is sending a single signal, then the injection system SHOULD also be operating. So my logic says it can't be the CPS. But, hey, what do I know?! And they do seem to have a mind of their own, but I can't see how it's sparking if the CPS isn't operating.

But there again, six failed injectors doesn't sound likely either! So, once you verify that the fuel pump is running on turning over, I'd try and verify that the injectors are operating when turning over. (Maybe pull one and place it in a jamjar to test?) If none of them are operating and IF it's still sparking, I'd probably then look at the ecu connection and the output signals to the injection system. As you know, I wouldn't change anything unless I was pretty sure it had failed, and your sparks do seem to indicate the CPS is signalling?

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

I 'Think' I may have found the problem!

The Old CPS (Crank Position Sensor) is the one on the Left of the Photo with the Black Wire (Genuine OEM Lucas)

The New CPS is the one on the Right with the White Wire (After Market)

Now take a look at the Photos: Am I 'imagineering' it or does the Probe on the New CPS the one on the Right of the Photo with White Wire (Aftermarket)

Look Shorter to you? sort of looks like its burned down (if that's even possible)

Overall Quality Wise: It's Night and Day, The OEM Lucas Looks and Feels like a Premium Product

So what I am thinking of doing is Carefully Cleaning the Old CPS and then trying that one again

I would never have noticed any of this had I not been taking these Photos to Show Greg and Grant

Anyone else is Welcome to 'Chip in with their opinion' as this is a new one on me that I have never come across before









The Old CPS (Genuine Lucas) OEM is the one on the Left with the Black Wire

 

As I was getting no results with the Aftermarket CPS (crank position sensor) that I fitted a couple of years ago, I thought I would clean up the old one and give that a try, as this was a Genuine Lucas and not an Aftermarket CPS




After Cleaning up the CPS I also Cleaned up the Reluctor Toothed Wheel and then put it all back together

Next Job Check the Fuses For the ECM the Injectors and the Inertia



Double Checking The Fuel Cut Off Inertia Switch by the Door Pillar



The Fuses are underneath this Drop Down Panel



The Fuses are in here Passenger Side on a UK Car



The Fuses are inside this Plastic Box that just snaps open (similar arrangement on the drivers side)



Once the Lid is removed you can get to the Fuses



First one I'm Checking is the 20amp Fuse for the ECM

20 Amp Fuse for the ECM is OK



Next 20amp Fuse for the Injectors (OK)



Next 10amp Fuse for Inertia Switch (OK)



Petrol Flow Test (ignition OFF) undoing the Feed from the Fuel Pump in order to see if Petrol is getting to the Rail



Checking the Flow of Petrol from the Fuel Pump to the Fuel Rail by Turning the Key On and Off at position 1 a few times (don't do this in a Confined Space and don't attempt to Start the Car!) My Crank Position Sensor was also unplugged as an extra Safety Precaution!



Petrol Flowing Through but unfortunately not Conclusive that the Pump is OK



If you follow the Yellow String (in normal use) Petrol Flows under Pressure to the Fuel Pressure Regulator in order to give the Engine the Correct Fuel Pressure, where any excess goes back into the Fuel Tank



The Fuel Pressure Regulator

There was too much Petrol Dripping to attempt to Start her and so I'm going to try and Start her Tomorrow

 

Good work OB!

Remember, you really need to do that petrol flow test when the car is cranking also.

Good luck

Paul

 

Hi Paul (ptjs)

I've still got a bit of a feeling that the CPS was a bit 'sketchy' enough to start her one day but not on another day or maybe I missed something and glossed over a Vital Step, that I should have been paying more attention to

So that could be the reason why I have decided to start all over again because these engines are not forgiving if you try and rush the job and in doing so make a mistake or overlook something

Although I can only hazard a guess as I haven't yet tried to Start her because there is too much Petrol dripping everywhere, I am now being swayed that the problem was one of No Spark but again its only just a guess, as until I try and Start her there isn't any way for me to know

But as frustrating as this is, I'm kind of enjoying the process of sleuthing this out, not only for me but for anyone else who is plagued by a No Start Problem such as this, as I hate the thought of anyone paying Megabucks to a Garage/Shop for something they could easily do themselves

And although this fixing process is still a work in progress, I absolutely refuse to give up

Thanks for your encouragement it really means a lot

 

I'd be tempted to try Thorsen's test as there seems to be a doubt whether you have a spark or not.
Then hopefully you can focus on the real culprit.

 

Hi Norri

Cheers!

Got to go Shopping this morning but when I get back, I'll Spin the engine over and see what happens

As for the Starting Fluid, I've only got a tiny dribble left after starting my mower and nowhere around here sells it, so its looking a lot like Amazon

But in any event good idea, anythings worth a try

Alex

 

Having re-fitted the Original Crank Position Sensor back on the Engine after I'd Cleaned up the Probe, I Spun the Engine Over hoping She would Start, the only good news being that it gave me a really good reading on the Tacho, though sadly She did not show any signs of Starting

Next thing I tried was the Petrol Test while the Engine was Cranking, hoping that Fuel would be pumped out under pressure but apart from some Fuel filling the hose, that I had hanging over the Front Fender/Wing of the Car, there were no signs of Fuel being Pumped after that

Which really seems to narrow the problem down to 'One of Two Things'

Either the Fuel Pump Relay needs replacing, or the Tank will have to come out to replace the Fuel Pump and having to take the Fuel Tank out, is the Job from Hell and even if you have done it before, it won't seem any easier the Second Time around, as its not a job you ever want to do

I doubt if its the Relay buy you never know your luck, although they went and mounted it, in one of the most awkward places that you can imagine!

Underneath the Inner Fender/Wing of the Boot/Trunk where it would come in handy if you could stand on your head to get to it, as you can't even see it without a Mirror







The Fuel Pump Relay is 'The Silver One' and so I took it out to either Test it or try a Replacement




It looks fairly Standard but Greg and Grant and Paul (ptjs) will probably know, even though I don't know how to Test it and so it may be easier to find another one