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The DIN bit on the male is not so relevant. As you've said it's a standard bubble end. So you just need to find a female end for the new pipe that has the inverted seat to accommodate the inverted end you'll form to fit to the bubble on the male end.
And it's good that you've found matching 1/4 pipe. You don't want to try and mix pipe sizes.
But the ones I found on Amazon didn't say if they were DIN or Not
Don't know for sure but I think the ones that I found on Amazon were SAE (although it doesn't say!)
But the shape of the Top was different so could be SAE
So which ones do you think would be best, as I don't necessarily need the Male Screw ins
OB
If the male end of the pipe is DIN, the female fitting must be DIN. So I believe, subject to an expert's confirmation, that the Amazon UK ones in you last post will be correct.
El Jefe - The Goat, You are the Experts Opinion on which we all rely!
Anyway having had another look in the Hot Light of Day, I agree that it looks like a DIN to me and so I am going to order these Ones that Paul (ptjs) found
Also a Pic of the ABS I Deleted as further Confirmation it's a DIN I will be needing and Not an SAE
Just a note to Thank You for sending your best wishes, when I tripped over my Trolley Jack and banged my head on the ground, which was unfortunately Concrete rather than Grass, that was just less than a couple of feet away!
Didn't bother with Stitches and so after a quick wipe over with an Oily Rag, I got right back in the game and carried on from there
Sorry for taking so long to get back but my head was all over the place, Lol where for reasons that can't be explained other than sheer stupidity, I tripped over my Trolley Jack and banged my head on the ground!
Note to Self: Don't ever do that again!
As regards the other thing, I really can't thank you enough for helping me out, nobody else would have done that and it will not be forgotten, except to say that project is still on the 'back burner' for the time being, though hopefully not for ever, as that would have been nice!
Having removed the ABS I was going to have to make bridges to connect the pipes together where the ABS module used to be, using back to back female fittings that were joined together using Brake Pipe
Where in order to do so, I used my Trusty Brake Pipe Making Device, that has been so useful and has saved me a fortune over the years
There's not much to it really but like lots of other things in life, there is a bit of a knack so don't be Surprised if to start with, some of them end up in the Bin in the event they fail to pass your OCD type Quality Control
Brake Pipe Clamped in the Brake Pipe Making Device
Die goes into the open end of the Brake Pipe and is then Screwed down to form the Shape of the extrusion required, where in order to make the double flare, the Cone of the Brake Pipe Maker, is then Screwed down onto the Brake Pipe for a second time, only this time without the Die
This was just a practice that will be better explained in the photos, when the fittings arrive and I make some for real, where I decided to edit this piece, as at the time in question being late last night, there was some debate taking place about which extrusion to use
Where Paul (ptjs) not for the first time came to the rescue, with a diagram explaining it all
Last edited by orangeblossom; 08-17-2023 at 08:15 PM.
Many Thanks for the diagram that explains it all, as there was some debate taking place about which extrusion to use, so many thanks for clarifying that
Last edited by orangeblossom; 08-17-2023 at 08:23 PM.
The Female DIN uses a Double Inverted Flare, while the Fitting that Screws down on it uses a Single Non Inverted SAE Flare
Double Inverted Flare for the Female DIN Fitting
Although it may be hard to tell from this Photo the Green OEM Brake Pipe has an SAE Dome on the Top, while the Gold Colored Pipe with the Female DIN extrusion connects to this with a Double Inverted Flare
I hope I've described that correctly, or I'll be back to edit that out!
Making a Double Inverted Flare by First using the 3/16 Die in my Brake Pipe Making Device
Then Screw down the Cone on its own to form the Double Inverted Flare
After using the 3/16 Die Remove it from the Brake Pipe and then Screw Down the Brake Pipe Making Cone (without the Die) to make The Double Inverted Flare
Got Lucky with the Fittings, they all turned up to day and even making the Brake Pipes went without a hitch from what I can tell
Just got to stop for Tea now but another update coming later
Waiting For The Parts To Turn Up Was Like Waiting For A Bus
At First There's Nothing To Be Seen Then Suddenly They All Turn Up At Once!
And I was Super Excited when they did so as I was missing some Vital Components, that were really nothing more than just a packet of Nuts and a reel of Cupro Nickle Brake Pipe
Where with the best will in the World, without those I just couldn't carry on and then when I opened that Packet of Nuts, my heart was in my mouth, as I turned all Religious as I preyed to 'The Jaguar Gods' that I had ordered the right ones and that they were going to fit and be right for the job
Where I was very pleased to say that they fitted perfectly and even better Amazon has never let me down, as everything had turned up a day early and so with no more time to lose, I just got stuck in and started on the job of making Brake Pipes and then once having done so fitted then
On what was a perfect day, with hardly a Cloud in the Sky and with no Wind to blow the Bonnet/Hood about, the job almost seemed to go perfect! and so well in fact that I even had time to peruse my favorite 'Thrift Shop' where I think I may have managed to find the only Wrench that LnrB hasn't got!
There is only one more Brake Pipe to replace, which I'm going to do Today and then once having done so, it will be time to have to Bleed the Brakes all over again, which I've done so many times that I could do it Blind Fold
But when I looked on YouTube at all those guys that were having problems of one sort of another with their Brakes, I was quite Surprised to find that ABS Deleting has become a 'Thing' where now you can go out and buy an ABS Delete Kit which includes an Aluminum dummy ABS Block to replace it
Don't know if they do one for Jags, although the 'Ball Park' figure is about $100 and so I think that I may well be looking into that, as using Brake Pipe like I did and also others have done looks a bit like Dracula's Science Lab, though as long as my MOT guy loves it as much as I do, then I'm Ok with that
Dracula's Laboratory taking Shape underneath the Bonnet/Hood of my 4.0L XJS that looks so industrial that aesthetically its probably a little more in keeping with the XJS V12
Now All I've Got To Do Is Bleed The Brakes (Again!)
Usual holdup for a Saturday Morning:
Have Breakfast then do a bit of Shopping but when we got back even more Brake Pipe Fittings had arrived!
That Thankfully weren't needed, as I had enough to do the job but will certainly come in useful for another project in the Future, as I Love Making Brake Pipes! as not only do I find it very therapeutic but you can Save a 'Shed Load Of Money' on the Ready Made ones
Then once the Saturday Morning chores were done and well out of the way, I was able to at last Complete 'The ABS Delete'
Then as soon as I've grabbed a bite to eat, I can get on with Bleeding the Brakes and then if I can manage to do that ok, then at least I am going to know if it was the ABS or the Uber Expensive and hard to find Master Cylinder that was causing the Brake Pedal to Sink when I Started the Engine
Alex
One or two of those bridge pipes are potential air traps. It might be worth cracking the join near the top topush air out before going on to bleed at the caliper. Perhaps wWrap some old towel round and ask Madamoiselle to gently press the pedal?
Having made all the Brake Pipes and Connected them together, what could possibly go wrong, well for Starters two of the Brake Pipes Started Leaking! where this had me wondering if I should have used something like 'Plumbers Mate' or maybe Thread Tape?
Although I've never used either of those before and this could be when I have made Brake Pipes for my Calipers, you can tighten them down quite easily, although it is more difficult with a Tee Piece, because you have to be Careful not to disturb the other Two Pipes in a Three Way Tee Piece
On reflection I think that maybe I was being a bit over cautious, as if you over tighten these things then that's probably just as bad, although what I am doing is experimental and so I guess its a Question of getting a feel for when the fitting is just tight enough 'Practice Make Perfect' and all that
Bleeding the Brakes was also a bit of a 'Nightmare' as Air was getting sucked in through the leaking Pipes and so Tomorrow I'll have to sort that out before I go any further, as the object of this exercise was to try and determine if the Soft Brake Pedal was caused by Air in the ABS or the Master Cylinder
In the interests of research, I've been looking on YouTube where as I may have mentioned before, Deleting the ABS Module seems to be becoming a thing, as from what I've been reading if something goes wrong with the ABS you can suddenly lose all your Brakes
And though maybe it doesn't happen often, it's not something that you ever want to happen at all, especially if you are romping along in a Two Ton Sports Car, where in this respect you can now buy an ABS Delete Kit, for around $200 that basically consists of Flexy Pipe
This sounds a really good idea (Except for the price!) as with Flexy Pipe it can absorb any movement or vibration, so if my little experiment proves to be a success, there is a Hydraulic Shop near me, who can make them for me while I wait, which looks to me to be an ideal Solution
And so Tomorrow, I'll do it again and again and again, until I get the result that I am after, where none of this would have happened, if I hadn't been stupid enough to ever let the Brake Reservoir Run Dry!
Went round all the Brake Unions on my ABS Delete, where it was very obvious, that I hadn't done them up tight anywhere near enough, so I gave them all an extra Quarter Turn to see what happens and then if they are still weeping, maybe an extra Quarter Turn after that
Ok well having done so the Pedal is now rock hard and certainly even better than its ever been before, though that of course is Without the Engine Running! as when I tried to Start her the Battery was Flat, as She has been Standing quite a while
So after Lunch I am going to try and 'Jump Start' her off the Merc as with the ABS Deleted at least for the time being, then we will know the outcome one way or another, as if the Pedal decides to Sink as soon as the Engine has Started as it has done before
Then it is highly likely that it is going to mean a New Master Cylinder, although I would try and Bench Bleed it just to make sure as otherwise it could get quite expensive
This Car has the Teves Mk1V and my V12 has got the Teves Mk111 so having got both of these Systems, unless it suddenly should decide that its going to go wrong, I think that I can honestly say I prefer the Teves Mk111 as once the Valve Block has been rewired then hopefully you won't get any problems
Opinions of Course may vary but my XJS is the only Car that I have ever had with ABS so as for me I have to say that I am Not a Fan but each to their own
So after Lunch I'll Start her up but first I need to offer a prayer to 'The Jaguar Gods' so Wish me Luck!
Bled all the Brakes and realized I must be into Double Figures by now, then went to Start Her Up and the Battery was Flat! must be lack of use as it was a New One a few Months ago, so I had to go and Jump Start Her from the Merc
But just before I did that the Pedal was Rock Hard, although as soon as I Started the Engine, the Pedal went Straight to the Floor, at which point I could Visualize a New Master Cylinder in my Future, as having deleted the ABS it could no longer be that
Though when I Checked the Brake Reservoir, the Brake Fluid was down about Half an Inch, to what it was before I Started the Engine, where on Closer Inspection of the New Brake Pipes that I had made up for the ABS Delete seemed to be leaking!
Which may have been Good News rather than Bad, if it were to save me from buying a New Master Cylinder
Brake Fluid down about Half an Inch, from before I Started the Engine
We seem to have a bit of a leak, so maybe this was why the Pedal went right down to the Floor?
At which point I decided to re-plumb the ABS Delete from Scratch, which I'm very pleased I did, as apart from all the hassle, the Pipework now looks a lot more OEM
Before: Re-Plumbing the Pipework for the ABS Delete
After: Re-plumbing the Pipework for the ABS Delete
But I've got to Bleed the Brakes again before I know if its made any difference to the Pedal going straight down to the Floor
Given that info, your brake booster diaphragm may have a leak, sucking fluid from the rear master seal. Not uncommon on other cars.
Edit: see this video
Just been catching up on all the recent updates (I've spent all yesterday trying to seal up the joint on my dipstick tube flare to gearbox sump boss. And today, I've drained the coolant and tried to remove some of the coolant hoses from a friends 96 Celebration that I'm trying to recommission).
Anyway, first of all my apologies if I've confused matters. Greg is absolutely right that a DIN exterior male should match to a DIN inverted female, and vice versa. My confusion was that you'd mentioned in one post that the male pipes were exterior DIN and in another post that they were SAE. The exterior top flare of an SAE fitting is 45 degrees, whereas the top flare flare of a DIN fitting is a 30 degree slope. See the attached pic. The SAE on the left has a 45 degree back flare and a 45 degree top flare. The DIN on the right (similar to your original pipes, I believe) has a 90 degree flat back surface that abuts the top of the male nut, but a 30 degree top flare.
No, that I've looked at the close photo you've posted in post 3112, the green pipe seems to be a DIN 30 degree top flare, not an SAE fitting as you've mentioned. So it should be mated to a double inverted 30 degree fitting, not a 45 degree flare as I suggested. However, there's lots of commentary online that you can get away with tightening a DIN male to a 45 degree SAE-type female (if its copper pipe) as it will pull the copper flare down to seal. that's the theory, but it might also be the reason for the slight leaks. As regard rhe leak from the T-piece, that might also be due to the flare angle you've put on the male copper pipe going into the Tee, and what internal seat angle it has?
So that's one thing to consider.
As regards the continuing sinking pedal. That's the first time you've mentioned a drop in fluid level on a press of the pedal. Remember all the test routines I mentioned where you were checking the level, didn't say it has ever dropped. And yes, it could be from the slight leak at the T-piece. But 1/2" in the reservoir is quite a lot of fluid and seems to be way more fluid than your slight T-piece leak seems to be leaking. The fluid must be going somewhere.
So, you need to check that the soft pedal is not caused by a leak of fluid back into the servo as jal1234 has suggested, (although that's slightly confusing because that's a new problem, as you've not mentioned a fluid level drop before?)
To check this, I would start by pulling the check valve on the servo as I mentioned back in June, get a mini-mirror and see if you can see any fluid in the bottom of the servo.
08-16-2023, 05:47 PM
