I'm not sure about that, I would think that you would have to use a completely different master cylinder.

I have wondered if it would be possible to replace the system with the later version. In 95 Jag changed to a much simpler design that is much more conventional. I'm not sure what that would entail, certainly a new ABS ECU, master cylinder and servo pump but you could then get rid of a lot of the other complex bits.

Cheers,

Allan

 

Sorting out a non-working solenoid was quite straightforward. Schoe your problem is not big, but you have two separate ones.

Sticking pistons - just buy some exchange units and swap.

Stuck solenoid on the "release fluid back into resevoir route". Sort out which one does not work and then pull it out of the block. I pulled a matching "clicking" solenoid out of the block as well and put a needle into the port so it rested on the end of the steel sealing face. When the good solenoid was energised and de-energised the needle leapt out. It didn't on the non working solenoid. I sprayed it in WD40 and left it a couple of minutes. energised it and de energised it a couple of times and hey presto all was good. It just needed the wd40 cleaning off with brake fluid before re-assy. All in all about 120 minutes master cylinder strip (solder) and rebuild. About 60 minutes getting it off the car and about 90 putting it back on and bleeding the brakes. I will now have it that every 6 years I will strip the M/Cyl and flush it through with new brake fluid.

This talk of fitting different cylinders or by-passing the system is a job creation scheme. It might come with bragging rights but it is not sane.

 

I am sticking with you Somethingsomewhere. I just figured out where the solenoids were located. I was looking for something in the lines someplace but they were in the "box" attached to the master cylinder. I flushed the master cylinder with spray brake cleaner and out came some "gunk" from one of the holes. I am going to pull all the solenoids and clean them. They are probably "gunked" as well. Thanks for the heads up.

 

How did this work out? I am in a similar situation. Complete brake failure. If I need to purchase a new accumulator or new master cylinder, I will probably go with a newer system. Why not? If its safer and seemingly cheaper. Though, maybe it just needs a cleaning? My issue started after the car has been sanded for new paint...

Is there a diagram that describes what is mentioned above regarding a needle to determine whether a cleaning is needed?

 

It was my understanding that 99% of master cylinder designs are split to control the brakes of opposing corners of the car - to effectively eliminate the possibility of total and catastrophic failure? That ABS gremlin sounds positively terrifying!

 

This has been discussed at length on another Forum. One thing I found interesting, is the suggestion of the removal of the ABS fuses. Seems this causes the car to work somewhat as a non ABS car. Not a fix, but a limp home mode. In my personal opinion, all the talk of doing away with the ABS over a single failure is a little hasty. I have a 89 ABS car, and it seems it would be a LOT of work to do convert the car, when a little maintenance would go a long way. My bet is that with the fluid never having been changed, and the original flexible lines, and maybe the low miles(?) this car needs a little attention, and lots of driving. The idea of exercising the solenoids on a gravel road seems a very good idea.

 

I just read the post on repairing the solenoids. Good article! I recently purchased a 89, and have just replaced the rear calipers and all of the flexible lines. I was (am) a little concerned, as this car has been sitting for a couple of years. I bought it not running. (Marelli ignition problem). I got the car running good, only to find that one of the rear calipers was seized hard. When I tried to move the piston back, it was seized so hard, that I broke the screwdriver I was using in the attempt. Anyway, dropped the rear suspension, new calipers, rotors, park brake retention springs, pads, park brake pads, flexible line...... put new lines on the fronts, and replaced the flex line under the hood going from the ABS pump to the rear brakes. AND, forgot to mention, I replaced the accumulator as soon as I got it running due to excessive pedal pressure. Seemed to help, but that seized rear caliper was the biggest problem, I hope. Anyway, when I went to push the front pads back, the pistons were very reluctant to move. I managed to get the pads out, and pushing each piston individually, seemed to be frozen at first, but once moved a little, freely moved back. I decided to try them first, before replacing. Thanks for the great article, and the time it took to write about it.

 

Im dealing with the same issue.

are you cleaning the master cylinder or the actuator? is there a trick to taking these things apart or is it straight forward?

 

RWD cars are split from front to back, the rear brakes in a RWD car can stop it.

In a FWD they are split to each corner so if one circuit fails, a front and rear opposing each other are still working. The opposition balances the braking effort and the front is necessary because front brakes in a FWD car does 90% of the braking. rear brakes alone would not be sufficient enough to be deemed "safe" by any means.

 

That doesn't seem to apply to these cars. I have read several reports of total brake loss. Seems the solenoid(s) stick, and allow pedal pressure to just return the fluid to the reservoir, and therefore no brakes at all. Hasn't happened to me, but seems it has to many others.

 

So far since starting this thread: I had to remove the master cylinder and clean it out since it had some sludge in it. The old fluid had never been changed and looked like thick root beer inside the master cylinder. I also took the solenoids out for a cleaning and they were gummed up which forced the brake fluid (new fluid since I bled the whole system) back to the master cylinder. That was when the weather changed and I will not know how things worked out until warmth returns to Michigan. Never had this problem with my 87 Hess & Eisenhardt XJS...knock on wood!

 

Woodun: The master cylinder is a very simple affair but a pain to get out. You need to remove the plate that hold the master cylinder to the car. It has 4 nuts/bolts holding it plus the lines to it and a few electrical plug-ins. Take the thing to a workbench and slowly take it apart. You will be surprised how simple it is and shocked at how much they charge for it. Do not forget to clean the solenoids if you can. They are inside a box bolted to the side of the master cylinder. Oh! Do not, Do not, Do not take the brake pedal arm off of its mounting!!!!! Take the whole bracket assembly out and you will see how easy it is to work on this thing. Flush the heck out of the master cylinder and the solenoids. Try to flush the solenoids out without taking the solenoids out of their case. I did and broke all the electrical connections inside (rewired it with no problem). You can test the solenoids by using a small 12 volt battery and grounding the case and touching the contacts. If you hear a click, it is good and not gummed up...flush it anyhow! Shoot some WD-40 into the openings that you will find in the solenoid case and work the solenoids with the 12 volt battery and WD-40 as a lube. Flush all that with brake cleaner and that should do it. This sounds like a lot but once you see it, it is not a big problem.

 

Does anyone happen to know which side of the 7 pin connector for the solenoids is ground? OP couldn't recall in his write up. I want to test mine and I don't know if misapplying 12v to a ground or vise versa will damage the solenoids.

Any direction would be appreciated.

 

Hi RagJag

If only that were possible I would do it in a 'blink!' I've had no end of problems with the ABS.

One of my XJS's had a hard pull to the right, which very nearly threw me into the path of an oncoming car.

On my other XJS, the brakes sometimes get a bit twitchy, almost as if the System cannot decide which wheel to brake first.

Then it settles down and goes back to normal.

Having said that I don't trust the System at all and as such I always try the brakes well in advance to make sure that they work.

 

This may be of help to anyone who has experienced problems with the Teves ABS

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...l-left-113913/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...please-117945/

 

Okay, this thread is freaking me out. So I have a couple questions:

I have a 95 4.0 liter. After I start the car and begin driving, the first couple times I stop (within a minute or so after starting the car), I feel the ABS in the pedal go bum-bum and the brake pedal drops about half way. No problem stopping. After that, the pedal feels normal. I always assumed this was normal. Is it?

In an earlier post, AllanG said the brake system was simplified in 1995. Is this good news for me? Do 95 and 96 cars have fewer brake problems than earlier cars?

About a month ago my car began pulling right when braking. My mechanic changed the font brake pads and calipers and it now brakes straight. I hope that's a permanent fix.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

 

Danny,

The brake system changed in late 1994, around October / November. This is officially called by Jaguar the 1995.25 MY (although US probably call it something different). The key element is the VIN number. If your VIN is 198335 or later, you have the revised brakes. If it's earlier, you have the more complex Teves MkII. The major change is the later system used a conventional separate master cylinder. In the earlier type it uses an "acuator" with the master cylinder just being the last chamber of that.

Paul

 

Thank you, Paul.

My VIN is 199793 so I have the revised brakes then. Are the revised brakes more reliable? If they're simpler, I must assume they are.

Would you know if me feeling the ABS in the brake pedal immediately after starting the car is considered normal?