Where did you source a replacement radiator? I've noticed that jaguarclassicparts still seem to offer an OEM one. I'm getting ready to go down the same path - refurbing the cooling system on an '87 V12 although mine is in an SIII. Once I get the radiator out I'll assess it and determine if a recore or replacement is needed.

@Greg in France When you replaced the OEM electric fan with a SPAL, were you able to use the existing shroud/brackets? I'd like to upgrade the electric fan but I plan to keep the mechanical fan setup as I have a new clutch and black fan ready to go in already.

 

My fans were both too large in diameter for the shroud, but you could get ones to fit it. As electric fans have a ring round their blade tips, a shroud is not necessary as the ring provides the shroud, providing the fan is 1/2 inch or less from the rad core. The really big advantage of electric fans is far better access to the bits at the front of the engine, and if you keep it this advantage is not gained. The properly working mechanical fan setup is very good, believe me, and even more Grant and Doug!

My fan setup works great, but it took a lot of sorting to get it to OEM standards of performance, reliability and ease of maintenance. I also have a mission to make the car as easily and as intuitive as possible, to maintain. Access to the front of the engine makes all sorts of things from weeping hoses, to belt changes, to electrical matter in that area, far less daunting tasks.

 

I noticed that SNG Barratt now offers a turnkey electric fan conversion:

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...20SYSTEM(12442)

 

KWE here in the UK are also working with Revotec, was actually chatting with them this afternoon, they indicated that they're ironing out some bugs but weren't specific

 

SNG Barratt also lists it on their UK site:

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...20SYSTEM(12442)

 

Where I found - I tracked down an SNG Barret one that had been purchased and never fitted - part number MHE4190CA

Rad

 

I'd be interested to know the air volume these can move, I'm not entirely convinced by a single 10" fan on a V12 lump. I really want the dual type because I fully intend to recommission the AC on this car.

 

That SNG link in post 23 from Mac is only to replace the OEM electric with a more modern electric. I am not saying that they are not working on a complete dual-electric-fan setup, only that that link in post 23 is not it.
A dual electric fan setup requires a high current feed to be installed from the bulkhead post, a fusing system, a robust switching system (as I said above I tried several good quality aftermarket systems with poor results), a custom chassis with better than OEM shroud fixings to the body as the fans are heavy, a cabin manual switch, warning light, and quite a bit of electrical work, plus ensuring the smaller fan comes on with the aircon.
The problem with the V12 is controlling the main fan in traffic, as what happens is this:

• sit in traffic immediately after a hot run - main fan comes on
• surge forward when lights change 50 yards, the colder water in the rad pumps through fan goes off
• stop, fan comes on, etc.

This can easily result in the fan switching on and off every 10 seconds or less. It does not matter where you site the thermostat, because it has to be set to the normal temp of that part of the cooling system, the cycling inevitably happens. I cured that problem by installing an on at 89 off at 85 OEM-type 22 mm threaded thermostatic switch in the water pump inlet. I could not find an aftermarket electronic system that could do that, and my experience was that it would not be reliable in the V12 engine bay if I did. Finally there is the matter of the nut behind the wheel, and the paranoia about the temp gauge, a thermostatically controlled fan that kicks in a 89 C will see the gauge go well above the N. It does not matter at all, but it would frighten many owners!

 

I think a twin set up is what they're working on, I'm pretty sure I recall them stating that the biggest issue identified was noise - and yeh running a straight blade fan at high speed will be noisy.

I'm with you Greg, totally get it, and why I really want to explore twin fans - I was looking at 14", could run both at a very low speed constantly if AC is enabled (kind of irrelevant for me because AC will never be turned off), if engine temperature dictates the speed can rise gradually, I will not install an ON/OFF / thermostatic type system, any system I install will be sensor based or I simnply won't install it.

The benefits to this modulated control is that the feed only needs to be sized for motor max current, if some form of PWM control can be applied then heavy relays etc shouldn't be needed, a manual override in the car could be a simple 12V signal with the controller doing the rest via PWM. This is pretty much how nearly all modern cooling systems that I've looked at function. The real downside is that one must ensure that the fans used can't pull so much current that battery and alternator need attention, not all fans are equal, and then the fan is going into a pretty hostile environment so cheapest likely isn't going to be the best.

Right now though the purist in me is getting in the way - anything I do must be easily reversed - I want this car to stay as close to original as possible really. As it stands now the existing fans will remain although the blades are going to get very thoroughly cleaned and inspected (binocular microsope), I do realise that some may shriek in horror at this decision.

 

Been looking for 2 days, finally found it.

This is the snap of the fan pack I used. Never looked back.




Size: 695mm wide, 415mm high, 345mm curved blades on each fan.

 

Much appreciated - the image looks exactly how I imagined, and exactly what I'm looking for - did you thermostatically control these or do something better ? - I've been looking for decent sensors that I could locate in the bottom pipework.

 

On the VW fan (sorry I missed the post) I tried an old fan pack off our 08 Passat 2.0, dimensionally it works, it is slim, has a small fan for AC, a large fan for 'getting hot in here'. Both fans run constantly at lower temperatures if AC is selected, if AC is de-selected they both stop, there is a control module on the back of the larger fan and two communications cables (CAN bus I believe), the module seems to be able to modify not only which fan runs but how fast. The fan pack has some substantial power feeds - 6 to 8mm I think.

To build something to utilise it I would need to understand the communication between fan module and ECU

 

I can assure you that the biggest problem on classic cars that have early ECU / 80's electronics will fail at some point, once dead the challenges will be gargantuan. I have 5 classics, 4 of which have ECU's from the mid 80's, I have a window ledge full of them because if they die the car does without some serious pain on your part.

Electrolytic type capacitors age, not always well, they survive better if not lying dormant for extended periods, but die they will eventually and when they do it is almost certain that they will take something else out with them - they essentially become a resistor instead of a barrier and power gets into places it shouldn't be. If you add to this that early silicon is pretty sensitive to static when not fully connected this can get messy.

Add all this to the hostile environment that is the inside of a car and yeh - the problem is real ...

 

Anyone have any thoughts about the heater control valve ?

I think I may replace it but I've read some stuff that states it doesn't work correctly as supplied by Jaguar - why would a heater control valve need induction vacuum to function anyhow ?

On another note the wife is currently calling the asylum and trying to get a collection made - just had loads of boxes of pipes / hoses / bushes / fluids and sundry other recommissioning parts delivered (little does she know there is still stuff in transit) - total spend on recommissioning parts just passed £2500 -

 

If a person wanted to stay all Jaguar, I wonder if an X300 fan assembly would work?


Cheers
DD

 

BEN,

I knew nothing, NO Forums, NO computers, so seat of the pants stuff, and a fan blade poking though the bonnet. OE blades and Hubs, out of stock Australia. I worked for Jaguar at the time, and still could not source anything inside 3 months. The car was always a Daily Driver.

I basically fell over the Falcon Pack, many beers later, one in hand.

I wired it as follows:

The LH fan was connected to the same relay (installed by me) that switched the compressor on. I also had that compressor on a by-pass switch on teh console, so I could run the ventilation system WITHOUT the compressor if I so desired. That fan was ON whenever the A/C was ON. I thought of a "Jesus" box to kill that fan when engine revs reached 2500RPM, and that is a far as I ever got with it.

The RH fan is thermo controlled. Relay posered, with the OE thermo switch in the water pump Inlet (85C) switching the earth (86) terminal of said relay. That way the OE switch is ONLY operating a relay coil, NOT the full load of the fan, thats the relays task. I ran a 2nd wire from that 86 terminal inside the cabin to a toggle switch, just in case things failed, I could simply earth that relay and have fan operation. NEVER used that switch in 12 years.

The Thermo relay (RH) is Ignition Power Switched (85), so when the Ign is OFF the relay is dead and so is the fan, same for the A/C relay of course. I fitted a dedicated "Ignition Relay" for this task, so as to not "rob" juice from other Ign circuits, simple.

The 30/51 terminal of each relay was powered from the LH +ve post in the engine bay, with a 25amp Thermal Circuit Breaker in each supply line. Simple again.

Memory????, those Ford fans drew 20amps each on start up, and ran at 12amps each.

As I said before, with the A/C on, so the LH fan was running, the RH (Thermo) fan never ever switched on, even in 45C Summer here and in traffic, they, and the cooling system I sorted, was that efficient.

Some members over the years have mentioned the X300 XJ6 thermo fan pack, and I keep forgetting to measure the one in storage when I go there, but I reckon it is too tall?. I will staple a stick it note to my forehead as a rememder when I next go that car, but dont hold your breath, that could be a while.

 

The OE system uses VAC to CLOSE that tap, as does Ford.

It is NOT a throttling tap, its ON or OF, simple.

I have never had issues with the OE tap, apart from the $$, so went Ford, jobs done ($25).

DHV5217 is the Dayco Part #.



Looks like this, VERY common heater tap.

 

They work fine....until they don't

I've wondered how many failures can be attributed to its location, where being baked with engine heat is a given?

I use an aftermarket 'pancake' style replacement that I wrapped in some sort of heat barrier.....although I can't remember what type at the moment. Need more coffee



I don't understand the question, but vac controlled heater valves are common.


Get it all done and then enjoy the car.

"Do it all, do it right, do it once" = happy Jaguar ownership

Cheers
DD

 

This stuff is great, seems to work. I wrapped my ABS pump & ball in it and the (!!) Brake warning stopped coming on in scalding hot city traffic. AC hoses to.

I've always been suspicious of the overpriced Jag metal unit how can that tiny littpe vac hose pull it shut? A $20 GM ACDelco type no name works the same in plastic.

 

I can't say I've ever encountered a vacuum operated heater valve - one of my other 'classics' has a valve controlled by a cable (solid core wire really), the others the heater coil is live at all times with the temperature controlled by dampers in the car based on human intervention - this is the first classic I've had beyond the Range Rover that actually has AC.