What would have happened to the old Press Tools for the XJS and could the Car be revived, even if only in the form of New Body Shells, like they did with the MGB.

 

Good question, OB. I remember about 10 years ago or so, the JEC had a bit about this in their mag. The tools did exist then, or most of them, and they were stacked in a some sort of west midlands outdoor dump getting rusty along with all sorts of other heavy bits of old steel tooling and stuff. There was talk of their being used to make certain parts, and for all I know some were. There was also, not quite so long ago, a letter to the JEC mag from one of the really expert and really expensive bodywork guys, based in Worksop, Alan somebody now retired, complaining that the parts being supplied by JCP were not sufficiently accurately pressed to be fitted without extensive fettling. So I guess some parts were being turned out from the old tooling.
Truly and honestly though, it is commercial suicide to try to utilise old tooling unless you have a really substantial demand and also can sell them for seriously high prices (E type panels and bonnets anyone?). Together with which, while there remains a substantial supply of scrapped/could be scrapped XJSs, there is no real shortage of panels or parts. Added to which, press tooling life is not indefinite and probably most of the actual presses the old tooling fitted are themselves obsolete. As soon as tooling edge definition goes, it is amazing how sensitive the human eye is to quarter millimetre differences. Half a millimetre edge loss of definition on (eg) a pre-facelift rear threequarter panel waistline crease is really noticeable and any more looks awful.
But you have an important point, as always. It will be rust that does for the XJS, not lack of mechanical parts. Those of us with rust free cars will watch from up there, or down there more likely, as our beneficiaries reap E Type money!
Greg

 

Hi Greg

Thanks

Interesting Stuff but I'd really love an XJS with an Aluminium Body, so that will be on my Wish list, if I happen to win the Lottery on Roll over Week.

 

OB,

As Greg has mentioned, we did look at this issue some years ago. I suspect that an XJS bodyshell will never be produced again for a number of reasons:

- The tooling that exists (or used to exist!) is very old. Alan Proctor who was the JEC bodywork technical adviser for XJSs was having many problems with the remaining panels even 10 years ago. I don't think the old tooling (if it still exists) would be capable of pressing panels any more.

- There is a huge difference between the pre-facelift and facelift panels. Even the facelift panels were changed over the years. There are 3 or 4 versions of the facelift front wings as an example. So, deciding exactly which bodyshell to produce means there is a already a very limited audience.

- JLR just doesn't have the resources (or possibly inclination) to invest in what would be a huge project.

So, keep on spraying the wax each year!

Paul

 

93-96 XJS Phase II Facelift body shell, convertible - brand new! | eBay

new body shell for those with deep pockets

i remember these were being sold for £250 ten years ago , lol


BB

 

I remember them too. It was Black Country Jaguars who was selling them.

 

Hi Paul

Cheers, Spraying the Wax it is then and also such a shame that no one seems to have had the foresight to save the old tooling, when they ceased production.

 

Nice find BB, So tempting but £250 Ten years ago can spoil a persons day.

 

£250 ten years ago? This shell was £1750 2 years ago. So maybe shells are better investments than complete XJSs!!

Remember that re-shelling an XJS is a phenomenal amount of work. If the car is that bad to start with it will also need a huge number of other unobtainable parts. I don't anyone who has re-shelled an XJS which is probably why this shell has been for sale for years.

IMO, it will end up being sold very cheaply to someone who needs a few body parts and will end up being cut up. Just MO.

Paul

 

I'd love to have some panels... But Indon't need any yet

 

To be fair, Paul, if you have the original car with all, or most, of the bits on it, removing them all and putting them into a new shell is a viable option - from the do-ability point of view. BB pretty much did this with his car I seem to recall. I speak as one who removed everything from his shell, and I mean everything, fixed the shell and rustproofed it, then put everything back in. By far the worst bit was taking all the old bits out of the shell. Replacing it all, with a good smattering of new parts as required, was a breeze compared with the dismantling, positively enjoyable, and in reality took very little time, as in total about three weeks once everything was there, clean and ready.
Greg

 

Greg,

Fair point, but you are much more competent than most of us!

I know one guy who took 3 weeks just to remove the dash to help fix his air-con fault!

Paul

 

Agree with that Paul, just because they're asking for £4,400 (approximately US$6400 or Aus $8700
Doesn't mean it will be sold for that money.

Stored outside now in primer only with some surface rust visible and possibly more hidden, don't think I would go for it even if funds and space permitted.

I wonder with modern technology about possibility of digitally scanning body panels for reproduction in aluminum, might there be a market for that or am I dreaming!

 

Hi Paul

You are probably right but if I win the Lottery (Tonight) then all bets are off.

 

It would take me longer than that to put in a Rad!

 

No I don't think you are, can't you print them or something like that now?

 

Rubbish, what you have done and posted on here is seriously talented. But I agree there would be a chance of something being upside down...
Greg

 

Thank you kindly, Sir she said. But it is a matter of being a hobby (/obsession?); given that (and I am not being modest) anyone with time on their hands, Grant Francis on the email, and a couple of really good friends in the business/on the forum to scrounge know-how from, can do it. Genuinely. I was terrified when I started out, but gradually the fear fades and the challenge gets into the system. That is one of the reasons I always suggest people have a go and do things properly. When you do so, you gain huge confidence and understanding of the car. Look at BB rebuilding his GM400, awesome, and I am supposing that was the first time he had done one.
Greg

 

OB
You could in theory put ally outer panels on an XJS (boot, bonnet, wings front and rear, doors). It would be a problem keeping them rigid in the medium term though, as the those lovely flatish lengths of wing would need considerable bracing from underneath. Take the bonnet, even in steel it has very substantial inner bracing to keep it in shape. You could even find the weight saving was practically zero. Once in the late 1950s Maserati (I think it was, but it might have been another firm) made an aluminium tubed spaceframe for one of their racers. By the time they had it sufficiently stiff, it actually weighed more than the steel tubed item it was to replace!
The real weight saving in the modern Jaguar cars is from the chassis being in ally. And this needs seriously careful design and build, well beyond all but major manufacturing and CAD/CAM resources. So redoing the actual load-bearing monocoque in ally would be a non starter.
E types, D types and so on have mainly curved outer panels, and these are much easier to make reasonably rigid in ally than the XJS would be.
Having said all that, Ronbros has removed a huge amount of weight from his convertible using essentially straightforward means. Also, if weight saving really is a priority, then the aircon can go - 100% of it, the electric seats and anything like that too, the hood on a convertible (or at least the motors that drive it), chuck the bumpers, use thinner glass, remove the window motors, remove everything non essential in the engine bay, swap out old fashioned soundproofing for lightweight modern stuff, use an ally rad, remove the spare wheel, and pretty soon you have got the car down from (for a pre-facelift coupe) 1750 kg to 1400 or less. As the Great Colin Chapman said: "Remove weight and add lightness".
Even, buy that shell and have it acid dipped to remove 15% of the metal throughout - it worked for TWR on the ETCC cars!
Greg

 

Which is why modern cars with aluminium panels, have loads of shaping in them. Every crease adds stability to the panel. Audi's A2 needed a ribbed roof, to keep stability... The more creases, grooves and shaping a panel has, the stiffer it is... That is why modern cars with weight saving ideals, have loads of 'design lines'...