Hey everyone, it's finally happened to me-- My 1983 Jaguar XJS V12 no longer starts.

In the past four weeks, I parked the XJS in my garage for some work on the power steering rack bushings. I removed the following:

• The power steering rack
• LH heat shields around the rack
• the LH catalytic converter
• the LH oxygen sensor
• the LH downpipe
• the wheels on both sides
• LH air intake and filter
• steering fluid
• and of course the three power steering bushings.

As far as I can tell, I put everything back together as prescribed in the workshop manual. I haven't touched anything with the ignition, or fuel system. It no longer cranks and it sounds like a switch or relay is clicking.


Here's all the lights that turn on when I try starting.


To note, the car was jacked up pretty high and there's more than a fourth of fuel in the tank. I lowered it, and it sounds like fuel is sloshing through the lines. The battery was low, so I charged it over night, and it is taking about two amps of charge though, but again, the engine doesn't crank. What do you think would cause the car to no longer start after a power steering bushing repair? What would you recommend looking at? Appreciate your thoughts, thank you!

Here's also a video:

 

OK, so an '83 Beast.

I would trace the White/Red wire from the starter solenoid back towards the starter relay. Around about the Trans dipstick area there is a spade joiner, DUH, and it fall apart with very little assistance from us humans.

The fact the relay "sounds" like its clicking, and the starter is dead, sends me there 1st and foremost.

After that Canadian Club and a shady tree for some serious thinking.

I see nothing in what you have done to cause this. RHD, hell yes for that wire, but LHD, not so much.

 

@Grant Francis Thank you very much for your reply. I apologize for not getting back to you faster. When not working, I have troubleshooted further over the weekends. I agree with you it looks like a starter issue. Thus far, I have tested the battery further, and the relays. They both look good (I even swapped the batteries with one of my other cars, because it had the same unit). I had my brother listen closely to the starter from underneath the vehicle, and the only sound we heard was a click, and that was from the relay. My guess is the starter "piston" has jammed, and the starter/solenoid shorted out. It is also covered in oil that has leaked over the years, so this likely contributed.

The last few days, I worked to remove the starter. Thankfully my LHD car does not require me to drop the steering rack (again), but I did have to drop a cat, the heat shields, and the down-pipes. I've gotten mostly all the positive and ground leads off, however, the worst trouble I am having is with the top 12-point, spline bolt. I've read on the forums a LOT of people struggle with this as well with the Lucas heavy-weight starter. Do you have any tips on removing that top bolt? We've already spent three hours on just it (plus several hours finding it lol, I thought at first it was by the solenoid at the front), but our bending socket wrenches, spanners, and impacts can hardly fit, and the grip is poor. Plus, I'm not exactly sure if it is an SAE or metric bolt, and the workshop manual just skims over it as if it is easy to remove. The lower one was a 9/16ths. Photos online I've seen tend to confirm this, but it's hard to say for sure. Would you know from experience? Thank you for any tips, or advice you have when it comes to removing what I'd call the hardest bolt I've ever had to remove from any of my cars! Thanks!



The top bolt by the solenoid is the one in question.

 

You need a 7/16ths 12 POINT socket plus long extentions for that starter bolt, as in this pic. You must NOT used a 6 sided single hex socket as it will ruin the bolt.

My friend Michel's son Frederique models the method

 

Awesome, thank you! I GOT THE STARTER OUT! It took me five hours, a lot of penetrating fluid, and a flexing wrench! Thank you so much @Grant Francis & @Greg in France , you're the best!! Off to the test bench next!


The notoriously difficult to remove Lucas starter!


If anybody needs more images, I also saw this article https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...stions-166905/

 

Beer O'clock in my book.

NOW.

You have lots of space, so get into teh following.

1) INSULATE all those wires from the starter motor. You dont want sparks flying.
2) Reconnect the battery. NO sparks, you have done well young man.
3) Multi Meter on that White.Red wire.
4) Go for START, and read that meter, should be battery volts. Anything less, you got connection, relay points, etc issues.
5) Disconnect the battery.
6) Locate and CAREFULLY remove the nut from the bulkhead battery stud, and CLEAN that sucker.
DO NOT LOSE THAT NUT, ITS SOME WEIRD BRITISH THREAD (Whitworth I think), and supply outside the UK, HAHAHA.

The above is suggested while the starter is out. All that oil will have caused issues for sure, but testing all that crap once that monster is back in, NAH, not a god idea.

 

I recently replaced my V12 starter's upper bolt with this socket cap bolt. I have several extras if you want one. It's 3/8-16, 4.5" long. I used it with a 3/8" (nominal) ID, 5/8" OD washer (of which I also have extras).

I wish I hadn't taken the starter out. There was almost certainly nothing wrong with it, I just hadn't cleaned the high-current ring terminals adequately until I went to put in the rebuilt unit. It took several minutes with 240 grit to bust through to shiny metal!

 

Quite often the internal wire of the solenoid coil fractures at the connector, a known Lucas issue.
Then the solenoid will not pull in.
Easy fix to resolder it.
However for an 83 car you would want to inspect the starter itself after 40 years.
Many owners just buy a new geared starter which is lighter and draws a bit less current.
I have stripped, cleaned and put back together 3 Lucas starters. They are built like battleships, hence the weight of them.
I usually replace the brushes although they are often not badly worn. You can still find the Lucas brushes or buy something slightly oversize and file off the excess.
Because they are filthy most of the time is spent cleaning them rather than fixing them. About 3 to 4 hours does it.
Apart from replacing brushes, adding lubrication and adjusting the throw out there was nothing wrong.
If you want to go down that path I have lots of photos and there is info to be seen in the XJ-S repair manual.

 

@Grant Francis , @944play , and @richardsjags , thank you all for this great information! Much appreciated! I've been following a lot of your advice in my free time between work/over weekends, and I'm getting to learn how my Jag works more than ever before. Plus, thank you for the offer of some bolts, 944play.

The bad news is, it looks like the starter was dead. A local shop tested it for me, and only the "pinion" moved back and forwards, but the starter motor did not rotate. I don't know the half of starter/rebuilds like it sounds you all do (especially Richard), but it seemed like it was electrically shorted inside, I'm guessing the starter motor (40 years of oil, perhaps?).

The good news is, I was able to buy a re-manufactured Lucas starter, which has been electrically tested to work, and it actually came early in the mail. It definitely is a work of art. It is beautiful. Beer O'clock indeed.


Look how beautiful the reman one is!

Putting it back in was much easier than removal.




I think everything is back together correctly. However, I have a new problem. The "trigger signal" wire connector was shorn (from the old unit) and the "spade" connector has come undone. The screw didn't want to come out even with a liberal amount of penetrating fluid. I didn't have to deal with the consequences of that stubbornness until now.


Shorn Spade connector, removed from "trigger signal" wire, with bits of wire still inside. Note this is taken out on the right side of the vehicle, this is not under the car in this photo.

However, even if it was intact, I also am a bit unsure where is the correct place to put it as well on my reman Lucas starter. The new starter is identical in every way except for what I believe is the "trigger signal" wire connectors. Would I be correct to assume the following?

Yellow arrow: wire to alternator (towards front of vehicle, underneath exhaust manifold along a rail)
Orange arrow: thick wire, ajoined in harness with signal wire, leading up to engine bay
Blue arrow: Trigger signal connector
Red arrow: ???? On my old starter, it was just a mount for the connector, with nothing behind it.



So I guess my questions in all are,

• do you all know what kind of connector I can get that will attach to the end of the "trigger signal" wire?
• Should I just buy a whole new cable? & If so,
• Do you know where I could get one, or just the connector itself?

I was pretty dismayed, because It does seem pretty silly that a little connector could hold up the whole job! I thought/tried using a piece of electrical tape, but it didn't hold, and I'm pretty sure it would just come undone anyhow with day-to-day use in the future.



Note where arrow is pointing

So while I have next to nearly no experience soldering and crimping, I'm willing to learn and would appreciate any suggestions you all offer! Thank you all again for your advice.

 

Pushing the memory a tad, and applying common sense from when I was at Lucas down here.

The Orange stud is ONLY live when the solenoid is engaged. It is DEAD at all other times.

The Yellow has the battery cable from the firewall stud, alternator +ve cable attached. Maybe some other stuff for your market, dunno.

The Heavy White/Red signal wire attaches to one of those spades, thus energising the solenoid. The spade that is the soldered attached is the usual connection.

Serious memory pull here.

Looking at the rear of the solenoid:

12 O'Clock = Battery livve cable and alternator live feed.
6 O'Clock, Stater rotation post, ONLY live when the starter is operating, coz the so;enoid is energises, and the internal copper plate is connecting 12 & 6, simple.
3 & 9 O'Clock are the soldered ends of the solenoid windings. One is Earth, the other is that White/Red wire. Usually the 3 O'Clock is the wire connector.
The other spade, NO IDEA.
Your test guy would have applied +ve to the "12" post, Earth to the casing, and activated the thing by applying +ve to one of those spades, so maybe ask him which one?

 

IT WORKS, IT WORKS, IT WORKS!!!

In fact, the starter works too well ahaha. I connected the battery and it sparked pretty heavily. It also sounded like the starter is powering up when I connect the battery. I pulled both the cold starter, and the starter relays and it still runs when I connect the battery. I'm pretty sure I bungled up the wiring...imagine that, three wires, and I bungled it up lol .



Trigger Signal wire attached at three o'clock


As a side note, I was able to fit the old "trigger signal" wire with a spade connector I got at a local superstore (Walmart in America).


Common spade connectors. VERY useful pack!


Afterwards, I did try the starter without any spade connected, then by connecting the spades at first at "one o'clock," and then "three o'clock" (referenced before by the green and red arrows, respectively), and it still starts when I connect the battery. My guess is the positive and negative leads are touching somewhere completing the circuit, hence why it runs when voltage is applied, and also why it is bypassing the relays/fuses. I am overjoyed the starter is finally working though, a strange feeling of confusion and happiness . Now I gotta figure out what I bungled up lol.

 

Bugga.

Couple of ythoughts:

You messed up, NAH, maybe not.

Take a Volt meter, turn to V DC, Black to earth, Red to the Signal wire, NOT ATTACHED TO ANYTHING, connect battery, read the Volts, SHOULD BE ZERO.

If its NOT the starter relay contacts are burned closed, and a shorted starter you had will do that if you repeatedly tried to start it.

If that wire is ZERO, let us know, drink beer while I think some more.

 

This pdf shows a standard Lucas starter circuit.
Might help you sort it.

 

SOLVED!
IT'S FIXED! It was my mistake, I did bodge it! . I had attached the battery lead to the starter's lead to the solenoid (the bolt at 6 o'clock on the solenoid). Fortunately for me, the car was not running and no current flowed from the alternator.

@Grant Francis , you pointed the correct positioning out in a previous post, my mistake. For other readers, here's where BOTH Alternator and battery wires go. FYI, the trigger wire is at 1 o'clock on this starter, use a spaded connector).


YES, THEY DO!

Courtesy of XJS V12 1986 Starter Questions post on Jaguar Forums
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...stions-166905/


Everyone, @richardsjags , @Grant Francis , @Greg in France , and @944play , thank you ALL so much for all your advice. You saved me so much hassle, and taught me a lot. I owe you all a 12-pack of beer if you're ever in San Antonio, Texas. Especially @Grant Francis , you're a genius.

This is the best forum of people ever!

 

Well done.,

SIMPLE cars these V12's, only made complicated by the Human Factor.

Chili Crab, Red Wine, and an awesome wife awaits, lunch is served, SEE YA.