Fantasy V12 Transplant
#41
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[QUOTE=Forcedair1;847553]
The SL 600 v-12 is CA compliant and the car was registered in CA.
The car is in Scottsdale now and I believe I have seen it at shows.
There is more money than smarts over in Scottsdale!
The aj16 is an easier motor for mods like forced air and N20 as there is a much simpler design and much more SPACE!
I bought Nitrous Express Wet N2O for my '89 XJ-S v12. It proved to be a PITA to tune and distribute even flow to each cylinder. The N2O broke lots of parts at the track and a Ford TBird was a better candidate.
Actually Powerdyne or Vortech could fit a centrifugal supercharger for our cars that would make it a different animal.
Mercedes Benz SL Class SL600 | eBay
![](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/xjs-x27-32/61299-fantasy-v12-transplant-4-19082.jpg?dateline=1383578101)
![](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/xjs-x27-32/61291-fantasy-v12-transplant-4-19083.jpg?dateline=1383576565)
QUOTE]
You bet it would make it a different animal!
By "our cars" I assume that you refer to the XJS, V12 or I6?
If so, would you know if they may work out a CARB EO approval for CA?
Centrifugal compressor is not really the ideal way to s/c, but it sure is better than nothing, as I find that it'd be easier to adapt a centrifugal compressor (a la turbo) over a traditional, plenum mounted S/C compressor. I can easily kill the lag by selecting the "drive" mode on my N2O injection, which gives me an initial 1/2 second push/kick.
But California doesn't make it easy.
Cheers
Mercedes Benz SL Class SL600 | eBay
![](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/xjs-x27-32/61299-fantasy-v12-transplant-4-19082.jpg?dateline=1383578101)
![](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/xjs-x27-32/61291-fantasy-v12-transplant-4-19083.jpg?dateline=1383576565)
QUOTE]
You bet it would make it a different animal!
By "our cars" I assume that you refer to the XJS, V12 or I6?
If so, would you know if they may work out a CARB EO approval for CA?
Centrifugal compressor is not really the ideal way to s/c, but it sure is better than nothing, as I find that it'd be easier to adapt a centrifugal compressor (a la turbo) over a traditional, plenum mounted S/C compressor. I can easily kill the lag by selecting the "drive" mode on my N2O injection, which gives me an initial 1/2 second push/kick.
But California doesn't make it easy.
Cheers
The car is in Scottsdale now and I believe I have seen it at shows.
There is more money than smarts over in Scottsdale!
The aj16 is an easier motor for mods like forced air and N20 as there is a much simpler design and much more SPACE!
I bought Nitrous Express Wet N2O for my '89 XJ-S v12. It proved to be a PITA to tune and distribute even flow to each cylinder. The N2O broke lots of parts at the track and a Ford TBird was a better candidate.
Last edited by Scoupe89; 11-05-2013 at 11:02 AM.
#42
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how about a ls motor which is twin turbo charged..25-30 mpg and fast as hell..I like the idea of a v12 in my car but my gas station likes it also, second this car could not spin the tires on wet pavement. Jaguar really blew it packing a whole 200 plus horses under the hood and 12 mpg..
So instead of a steady power development, there was a frantic search for smog compliance and better fuel mileage. Following the lead of Chevies powerball cylinder head, the HE was created and forever cursed power production.
Gross horsepower of the 60’s& 70’s was not anywhere near net or DIN horsepower rating. A Chevy 350 horsepower V8 turned into 160 hp net. About 150 DIN when Jaguar was at 242 . By 1975 with Corvette still at 160 hp Jaguar had gained 20 more horsepower to 262 and in the non smog world wound up at 299. DIN. !!!!!!!!!!
Joining BMHL, in order to survive his poor return Sir Lyons simply was out of money.
Not just Jaguar but all manufactures struggled through the 80’s, only Fords investment in the 90’s saved Jaguar.
Admire Mercedes and BMW but their v12’s Had to comply with the same smog rules. And reflect it with similar horsepower output. Yes lighter chassis and a few manual transmissions but don’t forget that Jaguar offered manual gearboxes too at first.
Yes BMW & Mercedes-Benz developed twin turbo’s while Jaguar was barely hanging on.
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ronbros (09-02-2019)
#43
#44
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Full conversion to Diesel with a VGT turbo. I think the baseline is there, the bottom end of the V12 is solid, with some better head studs it can probably handle pressure and a slight uptick in compression ratio.
My 6.0L v8 diesel cranks out 600hp and 1100lbft of torque on mostly stock parts, no reason why a well maintained V12 couldn't get within ballpark range of that. No need for twin turbos either just one big truck unit.
My 6.0L v8 diesel cranks out 600hp and 1100lbft of torque on mostly stock parts, no reason why a well maintained V12 couldn't get within ballpark range of that. No need for twin turbos either just one big truck unit.
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ronbros (09-02-2019)
#46
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I like the Jaguar V12. Quiet. Silky Smooth. Perfect for its time. But by contemporary standards, it's antiquated. It's down on power, and the 3 speed transmission is positively anemic. Yeah, even the 6 liter + 4 speed is relatively slow.
Let your imaginations fly. Given say a $25k budget (not bad I think seeing you can get a nice XJS for $3k or less if you're patient):
- how would you modify your XJS for modern performance
- what would you transplant into your XJS for modern performance
For argument's sake, SBC (really any Chevy or Ford) is excluded. I'm talking Maserati, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes V12 engines and transmissions: something worthy of being in the XJS chassis. What would you substitute? Throw out some rough figures (cost, performance numbers), and rationale.
I'll start:
what: 2003-2006 Mercedes twin turbo V12 (search [{manufacturer} V12 engine] on ebay) $3k
why: proper breeding (Mercedes)
why: proper # of cylinders (12)
why: proper power delivery almost 500HP stock (smooth as hell)
why: ECU tune gives Lamborghini killing power (700+ HP & Torque)
why: transmission with proper ratios and performance $1k
Would it fit? No idea.
Would it rock? Definitely
Second choice would be an '02 BMW V12.
Third choice ... twin turbo existing V12 and stick a 4 speed auto behind it.
Nomex undies on![Icon Bike](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_bike.gif)
Let your imaginations fly. Given say a $25k budget (not bad I think seeing you can get a nice XJS for $3k or less if you're patient):
- how would you modify your XJS for modern performance
- what would you transplant into your XJS for modern performance
For argument's sake, SBC (really any Chevy or Ford) is excluded. I'm talking Maserati, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes V12 engines and transmissions: something worthy of being in the XJS chassis. What would you substitute? Throw out some rough figures (cost, performance numbers), and rationale.
I'll start:
what: 2003-2006 Mercedes twin turbo V12 (search [{manufacturer} V12 engine] on ebay) $3k
why: proper breeding (Mercedes)
why: proper # of cylinders (12)
why: proper power delivery almost 500HP stock (smooth as hell)
why: ECU tune gives Lamborghini killing power (700+ HP & Torque)
why: transmission with proper ratios and performance $1k
Would it fit? No idea.
Would it rock? Definitely
Second choice would be an '02 BMW V12.
Third choice ... twin turbo existing V12 and stick a 4 speed auto behind it.
Nomex undies on
![Icon Bike](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_bike.gif)
Because of their complexity mechanics are just as eager to take advantage of the typical owners ignorance and sell unneeded maintenance.
#47
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Mine won't spin a tyre either, wet or dry!
"In a straight line" but only running on 7 cylinders doesn't help either, neither does the the 3 speed auto, or loose worn out suspension.
For the money, throw away the auto, manual 5 speed is the only replacement, fix the timing and electrical problems (Biggest problem with mine with added fuel leaks), and finally you go ITB's a bit of motor work should give you close to the magic 100hp/ltr, then watch out!
Stay tuned to this channel, I have a second motor and a 5 speed that will built like this for XJS.
If anyone has extractor plans out there that they would like to share please PM me![Icon Beerchug](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_beerchug.gif)
![Icon Frown](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_frown.gif)
For the money, throw away the auto, manual 5 speed is the only replacement, fix the timing and electrical problems (Biggest problem with mine with added fuel leaks), and finally you go ITB's a bit of motor work should give you close to the magic 100hp/ltr, then watch out!
Stay tuned to this channel, I have a second motor and a 5 speed that will built like this for XJS.
If anyone has extractor plans out there that they would like to share please PM me
![Icon Beerchug](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_beerchug.gif)
In addition Weber’s do not come tuned for Jaguars, you will wind up spending a lot of serious money buying jets, air correction meters etc. going on the Dyno to get closer, ordering more etc. Now-days few if any Dyno operators know how to make Weber’s really right for the application. Not to mention the variability of air density. Depending on what the weather was doing I changed settings 2&3 times a day
Last edited by Mguar; 09-03-2019 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Additional information
#48
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There are so many plug & play transplants with $25k being the limiting factors. The Hell at crate motors are finding old Mopars and other classics. Pricing on exotic engines is really the lifting factor. Some rebuilt v12s are not avail for $25k, the cheapest rebuilt v12 jag is $8-12k using Jag factory parts.
#49
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There are so many plug & play transplants with $25k being the limiting factors. The Hell at crate motors are finding old Mopars and other classics. Pricing on exotic engines is really the lifting factor. Some rebuilt v12s are not avail for $25k, the cheapest rebuilt v12 jag is $8-12k using Jag factory parts.
Jaguar bought Coventry Climax in the early 1960’s and got two state of the art engineers who focused on turning get into something suitable for big sedans.
As was Jaguars tradition they first released it in their sports car ( the XKE ) then moving it into sedans.
The mid 1970’s & 80’s dealing with new pollution laws it still was a powerhouse making more than 100 horsepower than the small block Chevy.
From the Mid 80’s GM’s deeper pockets allowed it to develop fuel injection and electronic ignition into greater and greater reliability and power, eventually catching up in power and surpassing Jaguar in reliability.
Both the small block Chevy and the V12 stopped production about the same time.
If you want Modern Jaguar still has the DOHC4valve V8 with optional supercharger. That compares very favorably with the Corvette motor for power and reliability. Although like the pushrod rocker arm Chevy V8 that too is getting very long in the tooth
#50
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I had a nice reply nearly finished when Chrome decided to eat it. Here's the short version:
Money no object: Buy a Ferrari 550 Maranello.
$25k answer: Keep the HE V12. Getrag 265 swap. 3.54 rear end. Exhaust improvements. Big throttle bodies and ECU retune. See V12Gents on Youtube for a model of what I'd like to do.
Current plan: Tune the TH400 to the point of being tolerable. Fix the stuff I know is wrong and do a bunch of catch-up maintenance. Then see about the items from the 25k answer.
Money no object: Buy a Ferrari 550 Maranello.
$25k answer: Keep the HE V12. Getrag 265 swap. 3.54 rear end. Exhaust improvements. Big throttle bodies and ECU retune. See V12Gents on Youtube for a model of what I'd like to do.
Current plan: Tune the TH400 to the point of being tolerable. Fix the stuff I know is wrong and do a bunch of catch-up maintenance. Then see about the items from the 25k answer.
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