Front Brake calipers replacement = new alignment?
#1
Front Brake calipers replacement = new alignment?
I replaced both of the front disc calipers on my 1994 4.0L XJS convertible
and during the test drive I got a very "squiggly" feel from the steering wheel.
I put those $#%&** spacers back on the calipers during the replacement.
But, I guess the replacement calipers may have some size differences
compared to the original units and it has thrown the alignment off.
I also noticed that the tires seem tilted to the inside at the top "/ -- \".
I remember that they were more up and down before "| -- |".
I just read some procedures posted about a do it yourself procedure
using laser levels on square tubes taped to the tires.
I wonder if angle iron will work? 1 flat surface against the tire and the other
flat surface up to rest the laser level on.
I know I'll probably wind up taking it to a front end shop someplace.
But, at least I'll know what the problem really is with the front end.
P O R - Press On Regardless
Bob
and during the test drive I got a very "squiggly" feel from the steering wheel.
I put those $#%&** spacers back on the calipers during the replacement.
But, I guess the replacement calipers may have some size differences
compared to the original units and it has thrown the alignment off.
I also noticed that the tires seem tilted to the inside at the top "/ -- \".
I remember that they were more up and down before "| -- |".
I just read some procedures posted about a do it yourself procedure
using laser levels on square tubes taped to the tires.
I wonder if angle iron will work? 1 flat surface against the tire and the other
flat surface up to rest the laser level on.
I know I'll probably wind up taking it to a front end shop someplace.
But, at least I'll know what the problem really is with the front end.
P O R - Press On Regardless
Bob
#2
#3
This sounds more like a problem with your Brakes.
Did you just replace the 'pistons' or swap the old Calipers over for Service Exchange.
When you replaced the 'Brake Pads' did you open the 'Bleed Screws' on the Calipers?
If not then it could be bad news!
As any Brake Fluid forced back up the pipes, can play havoc, with the valves in the 'Master Cylinder/Actuator Unit'
In fact it could wreck it! which could result in a very expensive and time consuming repair.
You may be very lucky and have got away with it, so if it were me the first thing I would do, is to check on the pistons then try re-bleeding the Brakes.
When I replaced my front Calipers, which I did 'Service Exchange' I put in 'New Brake Pads' that came with their own Shims.
In my case my Car went all over the place under 'Braking' as it was found that these Shims, were jamming on the pins.
Which meant that one or both the wheels were not braking properly.
As soon as I removed those Shims, the problem disappeared and She was fine.
Did you just replace the 'pistons' or swap the old Calipers over for Service Exchange.
When you replaced the 'Brake Pads' did you open the 'Bleed Screws' on the Calipers?
If not then it could be bad news!
As any Brake Fluid forced back up the pipes, can play havoc, with the valves in the 'Master Cylinder/Actuator Unit'
In fact it could wreck it! which could result in a very expensive and time consuming repair.
You may be very lucky and have got away with it, so if it were me the first thing I would do, is to check on the pistons then try re-bleeding the Brakes.
When I replaced my front Calipers, which I did 'Service Exchange' I put in 'New Brake Pads' that came with their own Shims.
In my case my Car went all over the place under 'Braking' as it was found that these Shims, were jamming on the pins.
Which meant that one or both the wheels were not braking properly.
As soon as I removed those Shims, the problem disappeared and She was fine.
#4
Brakes fine.
The brakes are fine.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
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orangeblossom (02-02-2015)
#5
May I suggest that If the steering feels odd, then check it VERY carefully, or get a garage to do so, right away before driving any further. To change the calipers you have had to undo the steering arms, maybe they are not back quite tightly, or some other odd thing is not quite right. You do not want to find out the hard way...
Greg
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 02-02-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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orangeblossom (02-02-2015)
#6
The brakes are fine.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
The following users liked this post:
scarbro2011 (02-05-2015)
#7
The brakes are fine.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
It is just a problem with the steering. It has a loose squiggly
feel when going straight.
I also get a "kick" from the steering wheel when the steering is straightened out.
I was thinking that the power steering pump may be going out or it is the
wheel alignment?
I replaced the brake calipers and installed new brake pads. The bleed screws were opened and I used bleed bottle to let the fluid drain into the bottle. I added
new fluid to the brake reservoir as needed.
May I suggest that If the steering feels odd, then check it VERY carefully, or get a garage to do so, right away before driving any further. To change the calipers you have had too undo the steering arms, maybe thet are not back quite tightly, or some other odd thing is not quite right. You do not want to find out the hard way...
Greg
Greg
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#8
Yeah, I've had the experience of replacing something and darn if something else fell apart.
Generally the new part put some strain on a part that was hanging by a thread.
I've planned on replacing the control arm bushing as my next project.
The Front coil springs replacement are part of that project.
I'm hoping to put that off till the end of March when things warm up a little.
It's a little too cold (34F) and windy(15 - 20mph) outside to work
in my shadetree workshop.
P O R - Press On Regardless (When it is a little warmer, Okay?)
Bob
Generally the new part put some strain on a part that was hanging by a thread.
I've planned on replacing the control arm bushing as my next project.
The Front coil springs replacement are part of that project.
I'm hoping to put that off till the end of March when things warm up a little.
It's a little too cold (34F) and windy(15 - 20mph) outside to work
in my shadetree workshop.
P O R - Press On Regardless (When it is a little warmer, Okay?)
Bob
#9
How did you go about tightening the rotors/setting the end float?
The calipers have nothing to do with camber. My car has negative camber like you mentioned primarily from the front cradle bushings being worn.
Generally a bad alignment will cause wear or a pull but not movement in the steering wheel like you are describing. Are you sure everything is tight? This squiggle could be a caliper moving around or a rotor without the proper end float moving about.
From what I recall, the (weird) settings on the front calipers can affect toe, which could translate "backwards" if you will, and end up putting some strain or causing some looseness in the out tie rods, maybe see if one is binding or has to0 much room??
The calipers have nothing to do with camber. My car has negative camber like you mentioned primarily from the front cradle bushings being worn.
Generally a bad alignment will cause wear or a pull but not movement in the steering wheel like you are describing. Are you sure everything is tight? This squiggle could be a caliper moving around or a rotor without the proper end float moving about.
From what I recall, the (weird) settings on the front calipers can affect toe, which could translate "backwards" if you will, and end up putting some strain or causing some looseness in the out tie rods, maybe see if one is binding or has to0 much room??
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scarbro2011 (02-05-2015)
#10
Hi!
Well the weather for this coming Saturday is forecast to be 60F here in Lawrenceville.
I'll be aiming for that day to do an inspection of my brakes and other odds and ends.
I looked over my to do list and see that I haven't done the coil spring replacement
as I had scheduled for Jan. 2014.
A little slippage in scheduling I should think.
I think the manufacture of the coil spring compressor
will have to be done first. I have the springs. I will have the time.
It's now on my Automobile Bucket List.
So, the spring compressor tool will be made between now and this Saturday.
P O R - Press On Regardless
Bob
Well the weather for this coming Saturday is forecast to be 60F here in Lawrenceville.
I'll be aiming for that day to do an inspection of my brakes and other odds and ends.
I looked over my to do list and see that I haven't done the coil spring replacement
as I had scheduled for Jan. 2014.
A little slippage in scheduling I should think.
I think the manufacture of the coil spring compressor
will have to be done first. I have the springs. I will have the time.
It's now on my Automobile Bucket List.
So, the spring compressor tool will be made between now and this Saturday.
P O R - Press On Regardless
Bob
#11
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There is a small gap.......015"-.020" or so...... between the caliper and the steering arm. Shims are used to take up the gap. If the shims are not reinstalled there is extra strain on the steering arm and the toe setting will be altered. I'm not sure how consequential the strain would be. The change in toe is enough to throw the steering wheel well off-center, though. Why-o-why Jaguar didn't simply manufacture a steering arm that is .020" thicker is a question for the ages. It's one of those "interesting engineering features" that make Jags so cool
Shims are also used, on some cars, to make sure the caliper is mounted exactly parallel to the brake rotor ("centralized"). These shims fit between the caliper itself and the caliper mounting abutments. These wouldn't change the toe setting or any other alignment setting.
Cheers
DD
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scarbro2011 (02-05-2015)
#12
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Greg in France (02-08-2015)
#13
Okay, today was/is a great day! The Sun is shining and it is 65 degrees. Great for working on a Jag!
The fix for the weird "squiggly" feeling to the 94 Jag 2+2 was to replace a small shim
on the left front calipers. The bottom attachment point for the steering had about a
1/16" gap between the caliper and the steering mount. The top attachment didn't need one.
I also cleaned the rotor hub, the area around the lug bolts, and the inside of the
alloy wheel very carefully. I noticed that the wheel was very hard to remove from the
wheel hub/rotor assy. I used a dry lub on the hub and lug bolt area after cleaning.
The wheel comes on and off with little effort after the lug nuts are removed.
The road test was perfect! No hint of "squirming" or power steering kick when turning.
I also noticed that my front tires are 13 years old according to the tires date codes.
Gonna replace them this week. Still have good tread. But replace 'em anyway because
most tire stores won't do any repairs on tires now if they are more than 7 years old.
Thanks to all who responded!
The fix for the weird "squiggly" feeling to the 94 Jag 2+2 was to replace a small shim
on the left front calipers. The bottom attachment point for the steering had about a
1/16" gap between the caliper and the steering mount. The top attachment didn't need one.
I also cleaned the rotor hub, the area around the lug bolts, and the inside of the
alloy wheel very carefully. I noticed that the wheel was very hard to remove from the
wheel hub/rotor assy. I used a dry lub on the hub and lug bolt area after cleaning.
The wheel comes on and off with little effort after the lug nuts are removed.
The road test was perfect! No hint of "squirming" or power steering kick when turning.
I also noticed that my front tires are 13 years old according to the tires date codes.
Gonna replace them this week. Still have good tread. But replace 'em anyway because
most tire stores won't do any repairs on tires now if they are more than 7 years old.
Thanks to all who responded!
#14
I found a part number for the brake caliper to steering arm shims:
C44146/1 0.004" shim
C44146/2 0.010" shim
Use them in whatever combinations to shim the gap between the
caliper and steering arm gap.
I found the part numbers in, where else, Kirby Palm's book.
RTFAQ's (Read the Frequently Asked Questions, eh?).
P O R (Press On Regardless)
C44146/1 0.004" shim
C44146/2 0.010" shim
Use them in whatever combinations to shim the gap between the
caliper and steering arm gap.
I found the part numbers in, where else, Kirby Palm's book.
RTFAQ's (Read the Frequently Asked Questions, eh?).
P O R (Press On Regardless)
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