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just came home from the first classic car show here in Germany (Bremen Classic). This show has everything from Fiat 500s to Mercedes 500SEL and Ferrari 412. Some E-Types as well.
What really made me gob smacked, was the proce for some XJ-S/XJS models. Just as a comparisson:
All cars from the USA, all with around 120k miles on the clock and all within a useable condition. Not perfect but 'ok'.
These cars are ruining the market here. It is a nasty speculation bubble. The US models aren't that popular here, as they have the weird huge bumpers (in XJ-S version). But that males the cars artifically more expensive. Used parts then all of a sudden cost 2x or 3x as much as they would normally. A bloke is selling USED front sibframe bushes for €40/piece on eBay! New ones cost around €15!!!
I hardly doubt any of the mentioned cars costed with shipping amd duties any more than €10.000. Probably not even €8.000...
They are just trying to rip someone off here. They are expecting the XJS to be the next big E-Type... Series 1 E's now go here for around €140.000, which is currently $150.000! For a car which was scrapped because nobody wanted a tatty old Jag in the late 80ies... As the XJS was in the same 'bottomless pit' they see thensame future...
Asking and getting are two different things. I think our own experiences and knowledge tell us that these cars are not highly desired in the classic car market and priced accordingly. Maybe someday, maybe never.
They may have been fishing for the potential customer who likes the look of the car (its damn sexy), knows the jaguar name and that "E" Types are expensive, has a pocket full of money and makes an on the spot emotional buy.
Lottsa stuff going on. Money at a car show is significantly different from the real world.
Something akin to the impulse buy idiocracy.
Yet, might have some validity.
1. Some years past, I read a Jaguar magazine a few times. It came with my SIII. A series on the restoration of E types. Really rust buckets. Brutal cuts and welds seemed to work??
2. Much later, A car flipper recovered a 'super rust bucket', E drop top from a snowy
field. A Brit guy paid good $'s to take it home for resale. At a profit, of course.
"E" types are a category in and of themselves. Rationality plays no part in that market.
A perfect XJS, which was a $40-60K car new might not get $5-7K on the market. An "E" in bits and pieces needing complete restoration can bring $10'sK. It makes no sense, but markets don't have to.
In another, Top monkey, Richard found the XJS that he "raced" to beat a prior cross country "Race America " record by Brock Yates in a similar XJS. He did succeed.
In the episode he found his XJS and rescued it in sad condition from the crusher at a premium price. Last known location, the "Gas Monkey" yard. Present or future unclear !!
I am an XJS parts specialist and I have a method I use for International shipping to keep the tax and duties down for my customers across the ocean. I also sell classic cars to buyers abroad using the same principles. I have a couple of very clean 95 V12 convertibles with under 95,000 mi on the clock that I am offering to the Euro market for $22,000 xjsparts.net
Last edited by xjsparts; 02-05-2017 at 03:26 PM.
Reason: incorrect web address
The prices for XJS convertible are high in Europe, even higher in southern Europe. That's why I bought mine in America (Florida). Purchase, shipping and taxes, $16,000. Value assessed before insurance and tax in Europe $30,000. On average they are sold for $17,000 to $20.000 in Europe. Asking prices are much higher.
The US XJ-S market can be deceiving. Yes, XJ-S prices in Europe and elsewhere tend to be higher but their offerings also seem to be, anecdotally at least, maintained to a much higher standard on average. Go on eBay or Craigslist and start looking under the bonnets of XJ-S for sale in the US. Most are still rocking their original fuel lines, coolant hoses, cracking HT leads etc.– even the $10-$20k examples, and that's just what you can see. We all know what that means. $$$$$. I frequently still see Jags wearing Pirelli P4000s which haven't been available for 15 years and certainly aren't safe to drive on. It's an absolute rarity to find a classic with comprehensive service history here, something that is all but an expectation in other countries.
Kirby's book hypothesized that the rash of V12 head gasket and valve seat failures in the 1990s were much more prevalent in the US than anywhere else simply due to the poor maintenance habits practiced in the US. Culture plays a big role in this and Americans tend to treat their cars much more disposably. There was a long period of time here when 70s and 80s Jags were virtually worthless and any surviving examples today suffered as a result. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cars that have hit the market in recent history were sat for many years and dusted off once the market started to heat up.
All that said, the value proposition across markets might be closer than it first appears. Personally if I were anywhere else I'd rather spend my money on say, a German XJ-S with service and inspection records than a less expensive American Jag that needs $10k to make it truly roadworthy. The higher output, lack of smog pumps and cats, and more attractive bumpers would be the icing on the German cake.
Kirby's book hypothesized that the rash of V12 head gasket and valve seat failures in the 1990s were much more prevalent in the US than anywhere else simply due to the poor maintenance habits practiced in the US. Culture plays a big role in this and Americans tend to treat their cars much more disposably.
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This is complete nonsense and an internet trope that just wont die. Despite American's maintenance habits... good or bad the Jag V12 dropped valve seats for a short specific time period over a long 25 year production run. The 70's / early 80's cars don't have this problem and mid 90's cars don't have this problem either. Most other makes from various other manufactures didn't have this problem either, It's not like Toyota's and Chevy were dropping valve seats until those wily Americans changed their ways, What is also clear and obvious is that the XJS has 2 thermostats and one side of the engine can run much hotter than the other with little to no warning if the thermostat on the right hand side starts to fail and restrict flow. That's a large part of the problem along with a manufacturing or quality control problem at that time. To blame that on American maintenance habbits is just an excuse. Additionally, Jaguar did nothing to make head repairs easier. The head studs could have been swapped out for bolts Like Porsche did on the 928 in the mid 80's and that change could have made head gasket jobs in the car far easier. We all expect machines to needs servicing and repairs but to make those repairs practically impossible is a missed opportunity.
This trope seems to apply anywhere poor workmanship and quality control exists for example I recently heard poor maintenance as the cause for cylinder bore cracking on the 3.8 XK engine. There is YouTuber that is repairing one of these block for a numbers matching XKE and he has found the sleeves that were pressed in from the factory were too large. That's poor QC, sleeve doesn't fit, just turn up the pressure on the sleeve press ol' chap.
If you examine European late v8's with all their wild complexity and compare it to an LS engine its clear the LS engine makes more power, is far more reliable, cheaper to produce, longer lasting, shockingly easy to service and consumes less fuel while being is just as smooth. It's a better design because the engineers set aside their elitism and went about the business of design and purpose. This is also the reason you can buy a 10 year old European car for pennies on the dollar and even then most end as scrap. Nothing is more wasteful and harmful to the environment than a 10 year old car going to scrap becasue the cost to repair it it higher than it's value. This an odd state of affairs for Europeans who push their climate agenda at every opportunity.
Sadly Jaguar never learned their lesson, their V8 in the 2000's was not great and the last iteration of of the XJ sedan was infamous for all sorts of engine failures. Jag abandoned their simple AJ16, of which I have lots of experience with. It's a deceptively simple design, that is reliable and easy to repair and maintain. It could have been developed further.
And so their you have it and this is a large part of why the brand is where it is today. Will the brand make it through the latest global recession? I don't know but I was happy to see a new and extremely large Jag/Landrover dealership being built in my native home town of Brooklyn NY. It was massive, might be an overreach. We shall see. I hope they get another chance.
Last edited by icsamerica; 12-20-2022 at 07:59 AM.
I put the blame fully on Jim Goods. Here he is fitting valve seats on what could very well be a dilapidated XJS near you. Written in marker on the wall is not the precision measurement of force to insert such valve seat… but a schedule of whose responsibility it is to supply the tea break.
Aha so all the V12s built on Tuesdays and Wednesdays were bound to be a rush job! It was a team effort however; let us not forget Kevin Jones' blind final assembly work.
02-04-2017, 12:42 PM
German XJS Bubble
