German XJS Bubble
#21
The fact remains Oh Ye of Taking the Mick, that the Jaguar V12 is the only V12 production car engine of its era that does not require constant maintenance and hugely expensive levels of attention from new, and which remains strong and reliable to this day. Now, unlike its exotic contemporaries, the XJS cost 30% of their price, could be used every day, was not temperamental and was decently reliable for up to 10 years when its electrics start to give reliability problems - as did those of all cars of its era, for instance the Porsche 928.
No question it could have been better, but ALL cars are a compromise between price, development time, reliability, and all of them are creatures of their time; with the faults and advantages of those conditions. Moreso, the objectives of the designer and manufacturer are part of the judgement. The XJS is a GT, with an astonishing balance between comfort, speed, handling, space, silence, looks, and ride which has never been bettered.
No question it could have been better, but ALL cars are a compromise between price, development time, reliability, and all of them are creatures of their time; with the faults and advantages of those conditions. Moreso, the objectives of the designer and manufacturer are part of the judgement. The XJS is a GT, with an astonishing balance between comfort, speed, handling, space, silence, looks, and ride which has never been bettered.
The following 5 users liked this post by Greg in France:
EcbJag (12-20-2022),
Grant Francis (12-20-2022),
LnrB (12-21-2022),
ptjs1 (12-20-2022),
ronbros (12-20-2022)
#22
MY 2 cents worth, and some be upset, so be it.
All my Jags, 6 and 12 have served me well. Bearing in mind that when I had the ML7, MK10, S Type, I lived 250 miles from any civilisation, so a break down was not a good idea, NEVER had one, and I am NOT a genius, or anyone special by any means.
Aussie Common Sense, a sadly lost commodity world wide me thinks.
I hear of the V12 "bashers", OK, if you dont like it, dont have it, simple.
Dropped valve seats?????, NEVER seen one. Heard of one, but in fairness, he COOKED THE SUCKER, trying to get home, in the Aussie summer, with a split coolant hose. Hardly the cars fault, or the manufacturer.
Wiring, HELL yes. Take a couple of days, a good few beers, and rewire the sucker, simple, and repeat in 15-20 years.
All mine, again 6 or 12, had issues when I got them, FACT. I did the "sort out" properly, which very few owners will ever do, and enjoyed the results.
710000kms on a PreHE, and twice around our coast road (25000kms) each time, in the HE. I doubt there are many brands that could even get close.
A Properly running V12 is a thing of that "warm and fuzzy feeling", BUT so few are running properly, again, NOT the cars fault, or the manufacturer, that the owner refuses to do what is needed on an older classic, which rather upsets me, mainly due to that "blame game".
AND
I got crackly wiring just starting on the 2010 X Type. SIMPLE, replace that wiring NOW, dont wait, it is what it is.
I need a few beers, come on down Greg, plenty in the shed fridge.
All my Jags, 6 and 12 have served me well. Bearing in mind that when I had the ML7, MK10, S Type, I lived 250 miles from any civilisation, so a break down was not a good idea, NEVER had one, and I am NOT a genius, or anyone special by any means.
Aussie Common Sense, a sadly lost commodity world wide me thinks.
I hear of the V12 "bashers", OK, if you dont like it, dont have it, simple.
Dropped valve seats?????, NEVER seen one. Heard of one, but in fairness, he COOKED THE SUCKER, trying to get home, in the Aussie summer, with a split coolant hose. Hardly the cars fault, or the manufacturer.
Wiring, HELL yes. Take a couple of days, a good few beers, and rewire the sucker, simple, and repeat in 15-20 years.
All mine, again 6 or 12, had issues when I got them, FACT. I did the "sort out" properly, which very few owners will ever do, and enjoyed the results.
710000kms on a PreHE, and twice around our coast road (25000kms) each time, in the HE. I doubt there are many brands that could even get close.
A Properly running V12 is a thing of that "warm and fuzzy feeling", BUT so few are running properly, again, NOT the cars fault, or the manufacturer, that the owner refuses to do what is needed on an older classic, which rather upsets me, mainly due to that "blame game".
AND
I got crackly wiring just starting on the 2010 X Type. SIMPLE, replace that wiring NOW, dont wait, it is what it is.
I need a few beers, come on down Greg, plenty in the shed fridge.
The following 4 users liked this post by Grant Francis:
#23
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
Posts: 25,550
Received 9,341 Likes
on
5,430 Posts
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-22-2022)
#24
Stripped-out roofless convertible V12; no side glass, no aircon, no blowers, no hood, no hood pump/side glass mechanisms, no door glass no electric motors, no central locking, no weight. Tonneau cover only; full GF/GiF cooling mods, AJ6 kit, welded faired-in metal behind front seats for top notch rigidity. Could lose 350kg no bother, absolute rocketship.
Just have to see if our Mum's will let us!
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-22-2022)
#25
Elinor,
NOT a problem, as long as you are NOT in a hurry.
I just took 3 days, YES 3 bloody days, to change 6 spark plugs on the Managements S Type. I did this 10 years ago in 3 hours start to driving out, including mandatory human fluid top ups.
Back on crutches at 73, sometimes even the damn "chair", is slowing me down a tad, but anything is doable as we all know.
Waiting for Greg to bring his V12 Downunder, then we can do a nice 20 hour beer run to Nigel in Kal, see how his compares to mine, HAHAHA.
NOT a problem, as long as you are NOT in a hurry.
I just took 3 days, YES 3 bloody days, to change 6 spark plugs on the Managements S Type. I did this 10 years ago in 3 hours start to driving out, including mandatory human fluid top ups.
Back on crutches at 73, sometimes even the damn "chair", is slowing me down a tad, but anything is doable as we all know.
Waiting for Greg to bring his V12 Downunder, then we can do a nice 20 hour beer run to Nigel in Kal, see how his compares to mine, HAHAHA.
The following users liked this post:
LnrB (12-22-2022)
#26
"E" types are a category in and of themselves. Rationality plays no part in that market.
A perfect XJS, which was a $40-60K car new might not get $5-7K on the market. An "E" in bits and pieces needing complete restoration can bring $10'sK. It makes no sense, but markets don't have to.
A perfect XJS, which was a $40-60K car new might not get $5-7K on the market. An "E" in bits and pieces needing complete restoration can bring $10'sK. It makes no sense, but markets don't have to.
Personally I don't care for the looks of an E-type but they do drive and perform wonderfully for a 50 year old car primarily based on good physics and design.
Even the latest generation of marketing mavens are still using the e-type to convey cool. Two make their appearances at the end of this commercial that is presently running.
#27
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,865
Received 10,920 Likes
on
7,174 Posts
I don’t recall Kirby blaming V12 design defects and oddities on poor upkeep by USA owners.
I recall commentary more along the lines of Americans not being accustomed to such dire consequences resulting from nonchalance and/or lack of knowledge. They had no idea how severe the consequences could be and thus took no special steps to avoid them.
And there is/was nothing in Jaguar literature to warn owners (or repair shops) about unique V12 problems nor advise them on how such problems could be avoided.
So it wasn’t so much a matter of lazy Yanks doing a poor job of upkeep. It was more a matter of nobody knowing any better 30-40 years ago. Nowadays we are much better equipped to keep a Jag V12 on the road.
Cheers
DD
I recall commentary more along the lines of Americans not being accustomed to such dire consequences resulting from nonchalance and/or lack of knowledge. They had no idea how severe the consequences could be and thus took no special steps to avoid them.
And there is/was nothing in Jaguar literature to warn owners (or repair shops) about unique V12 problems nor advise them on how such problems could be avoided.
So it wasn’t so much a matter of lazy Yanks doing a poor job of upkeep. It was more a matter of nobody knowing any better 30-40 years ago. Nowadays we are much better equipped to keep a Jag V12 on the road.
Cheers
DD
The following 4 users liked this post by Doug:
#28
You are on, get some serious heat into the car across the Nullabor and (as I shall be a lottery winner to get down to you) to hell with the fines! 'course, if LnR can squeeze in the back, we could pick her up at Perth (and get a time Adelaide to Perth).
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-23-2022)
#29
I don’t recall Kirby blaming V12 design defects and oddities on poor upkeep by USA owners.
I recall commentary more along the lines of Americans not being accustomed to such dire consequences resulting from nonchalance and/or lack of knowledge. They had no idea how severe the consequences could be and thus took no special steps to avoid them.
And there is/was nothing in Jaguar literature to warn owners (or repair shops) about unique V12 problems nor advise them on how such problems could be avoided.
So it wasn’t so much a matter of lazy Yanks doing a poor job of upkeep. It was more a matter of nobody knowing any better 30-40 years ago. Nowadays we are much better equipped to keep a Jag V12 on the road.
Cheers
DD
I recall commentary more along the lines of Americans not being accustomed to such dire consequences resulting from nonchalance and/or lack of knowledge. They had no idea how severe the consequences could be and thus took no special steps to avoid them.
And there is/was nothing in Jaguar literature to warn owners (or repair shops) about unique V12 problems nor advise them on how such problems could be avoided.
So it wasn’t so much a matter of lazy Yanks doing a poor job of upkeep. It was more a matter of nobody knowing any better 30-40 years ago. Nowadays we are much better equipped to keep a Jag V12 on the road.
Cheers
DD
Now as I scan through Kirby's book and my notes I cannot find anything about this so allow me to rescind my inaccurate citation. It must've come from a different book. Not being able to locate the source material, the veracity of the above claims is in doubt. As a part-time graduate student, accuracy and well-cited sources are integral to my work, so apologies.
With the market saturation of pushrod V8s in the US in the 70s and 80s, many still carbureted, "nonchalance and/or lack of knowledge" about a relatively low production, fuel injected, OHV, aluminum block V12 seems very plausible to me. Without the wealth of internet resources today, many owners (myself included) would be in the same boat.
Last edited by EcbJag; 12-22-2022 at 12:35 PM.
The following 3 users liked this post by EcbJag:
#30
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
Posts: 25,550
Received 9,341 Likes
on
5,430 Posts
IN YOU DREAM YOU'LL SQUEEZE ME INTO THE BACK!!
IF this ever happens, I'll have My OWN car by that time and drive it MYSELF, thank you very much!
And remember, in Merca we know how to drive Really Fast in STRAIGHT LINES!
But first, I need to acquire that V12.......
But before that I need to get this engine in Nix...
But before that I need to bleed the brakes ...
But before that I need to..........
(';')
Last edited by LnrB; 12-22-2022 at 01:51 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-23-2022)
#31
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-23-2022)
#32
The following users liked this post:
Greg in France (12-23-2022)
#33
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
Posts: 25,550
Received 9,341 Likes
on
5,430 Posts
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-24-2022)
#34
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
Posts: 25,550
Received 9,341 Likes
on
5,430 Posts
The following 2 users liked this post by LnrB:
Grant Francis (12-24-2022),
Greg in France (12-23-2022)
#35
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (12-24-2022)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)