XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

The great rear anti-roll bar debate

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 10-15-2019, 03:00 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default The great rear anti-roll bar debate

Guys
From time to time there have been discussions on here about whether the rear anti-roll bar (sway bar) is needed, and if it makes the car corner and handle better or not. Jaguar sometimes fitted it during the production life of the car and sometimes not. I am of the firm opinion that the car handles better without it, but obviously opinions differ.
Well, I present a very interesting interview with Norman Dewis, the famous Jaguar test Driver, and members of the Jury, I rest my case. There are also quite a few other interesting clips involving Norman Dewis on Youtube.

 
The following 7 users liked this post by Greg in France:
darrhel (10-15-2019), Doug (10-15-2019), Grant Francis (10-15-2019), Mkii250 (10-20-2019), orangeblossom (10-17-2019), petemohr (10-15-2019), ralphwg (10-16-2019) and 2 others liked this post. (Show less...)
  #2  
Old 10-15-2019, 05:33 AM
Rescue119's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,318
Received 597 Likes on 382 Posts
Default

So sway bar in for drifting... got it
 
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (10-15-2019)
  #3  
Old 10-15-2019, 07:17 AM
JigJag's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,331
Received 581 Likes on 361 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rescue119
So sway bar in for drifting... got it

XJ6 engineered for drifting
 
The following users liked this post:
Greg in France (10-15-2019)
  #4  
Old 10-15-2019, 07:18 AM
Rescue119's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,318
Received 597 Likes on 382 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JigJag
Now theres some nice fab work
 
  #5  
Old 10-15-2019, 07:33 AM
Doug's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,865
Received 10,920 Likes on 7,174 Posts
Default

Great info right 'from the horses mouth' ! If you're looking for a reason not to install a rear bar, you have it!

However, in the car world there's virtually unanimous agreement that what works best on the race track isn't always what works best on the street.

No disrespect to old Norman but I certainly wouldn't want to give up the benefits of the rear bar for street use just because it didn't work well on the race track.

However, having done some experimenting with different rear bars on my XJS I can attest that the larger ones can indeed have scary results.... but found only positive results to the small sized bars used by Jaguar (13mm and 15mm as I recall). Norman mentioned that, after it was all said and done, the final decision was to go with a thinner rear bar but made no mention of how the car behaved with it.

Cheers
DD
 
The following 2 users liked this post by Doug:
Grant Francis (10-15-2019), Greg in France (10-15-2019)
  #6  
Old 10-15-2019, 09:30 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rescue119
Now theres some nice fab work

Can we have a pic of how the spring shocker units are attached to the axles please?
 
  #7  
Old 10-15-2019, 10:24 AM
Daim's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Bremen, Germany
Posts: 5,906
Received 2,181 Likes on 1,584 Posts
Default

Looks like a rod going down to where the roll bar hoops would normally be...
 
  #8  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:20 PM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Daim
Looks like a rod going down to where the roll bar hoops would normally be...
I can see that Daim, and the bell cranks, but I am interested in how the mechanism is attached to the suspension underneath.
 
  #9  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:47 AM
JigJag's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,331
Received 581 Likes on 361 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Greg in France
I can see that Daim, and the bell cranks, but I am interested in how the mechanism is attached to the suspension underneath.
We designed a rear cantilever set up that mounts in the trunk and connects to the factory lower control arms. This gave us all the adjustability of modern suspension that has never before been available to Jags of this era, with adjustable ride height, dampening, preload, and spring ratio leverage capable of being adjusted from inside the trunk.
No pic of that though. the link under the pic takes you to the article. It’s a good read. Turboed the 4.2, made 390hp until they broke it, no SBC swap here they rebuilt another 4.2 and are north of that hp figure now.
 

Last edited by JigJag; 10-16-2019 at 05:50 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Greg in France (10-16-2019)
  #10  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:28 AM
Robert Laughton's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 488
Received 168 Likes on 112 Posts
Default

I still wonder if a rear bar used with a stiffer front bar would give better, and balanced handling.

Rob
 
  #11  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:47 AM
Doug's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,865
Received 10,920 Likes on 7,174 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Robert Laughton
I still wonder if a rear bar used with a stiffer front bar would give better, and balanced handling.

Rob

IMO, yes.

Cheers
DD
 
  #12  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:49 PM
Edelweiss's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 141
Received 68 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

So, I understand fully on the rear anti-roll bar.

Also mentioned in the video is the light steering. Any inputs on how to add a bit more effort to the mix?
 
  #13  
Old 10-17-2019, 02:04 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Edelweiss
Also mentioned in the video is the light steering. Any inputs on how to add a bit more effort to the mix?
You can change the valving in the pump, or fit a later ZF rack which OEM gives greater feel and is less light.
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Jaguar-XJS-S...-/303262290572
This one looks to be RHD though.
 
The following 2 users liked this post by Greg in France:
Doug (10-17-2019), Grant Francis (10-17-2019)
  #14  
Old 10-17-2019, 06:59 AM
Doug's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,865
Received 10,920 Likes on 7,174 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Greg in France
You can change the valving in the pump, or fit a later ZF rack which OEM gives greater feel and is less light.
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Jaguar-XJS-S...-/303262290572
This one looks to be RHD though.
I've been meaning to research the ZF racks.

Is the ZF rack a direct bolt-in?

What models originally used it?

Is it clearly marked "ZF"?

Cheers
DD
 
  #15  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:56 AM
ptjs1's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,027
Received 3,094 Likes on 2,042 Posts
Default

Doug,

By the end of production, all XJS were using the ZF rack. I THINK it was introduced on the 4 litre (and possibly the 5.3) some months before the introduction of the 6 litre in May 1993. Certainly there's a part number changepoint on 5.3 racks at VIN 185820.

Interestingly on their website, Jaguar now show a supersession of part numbers for pre-facelift cars, from the early racks to the later ZF racks, implying that they are straight replacements and will just drop in. I had read somewhere that you need to slightly bend one of the metal fluid pipes to fit the later rack to an early car, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Rather than go and crawl under my own ZF-equipped car, I found this much cleaner pic on the 'net which indicates a ZF nameplate.

Hope that helps.

Paul




 
The following users liked this post:
Doug (10-17-2019)
  #16  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:56 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Doug
I've been meaning to research the ZF racks.

Is the ZF rack a direct bolt-in?

What models originally used it?

Is it clearly marked "ZF"?

Cheers
DD
Doug
I changed my rack to a ZF one about 20 years ago. It is a direct bolt on replacement, except for the actual fluid pipes which are not idential. The ZF pipes fit the pump and cooler the same, it is just the rack ends which are different, and the pipe routing.
It is clearly marked ZF and has a one-piece all aluminium cast body.
After a certain date (I think about 1994, but I am not sure) all XJSs were fitted with it. The fitment to the subframe, bushes etc etc are all identical. In my view very worthwhile upgrade, made even better if you fit a 15 inch diameter steering wheel in place the the (pre-facelift anyway) OEM one.
My car is RHD, but attached a couple of pics of a LHD rack I helped a friend put in.

 
The following 2 users liked this post by Greg in France:
Doug (10-17-2019), ptjs1 (10-17-2019)
  #17  
Old 10-17-2019, 07:58 AM
ptjs1's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,027
Received 3,094 Likes on 2,042 Posts
Default

Apols Greg,

I was typing whilst you were!

Paul
 
The following users liked this post:
Greg in France (10-17-2019)
  #18  
Old 10-17-2019, 11:16 AM
Greg in France's Avatar
Veteran Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: France
Posts: 13,535
Received 9,330 Likes on 5,475 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ptjs1
Apols Greg,
I was typing whilst you were!
Paul
No apology required Paul. I am pleased we concur.
 
The following users liked this post:
ptjs1 (10-17-2019)
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Dale Konkol
XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III
28
02-16-2019 05:11 AM
al_roethlisberger
XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 )
17
05-25-2017 07:05 PM
jaguar-girl
X-Type ( X400 )
8
08-15-2016 05:22 AM
srhodes87
XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 )
3
08-07-2014 01:25 AM
xke1963
XK8 / XKR ( X100 )
6
04-17-2012 01:46 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


Quick Reply: The great rear anti-roll bar debate



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:08 PM.