HE vs flathead and acceptance of boost pressure.
#101
Also, I am doing something, something not a single person has done, and that's working on tuning the denso ECU, here soon I'll be doing a hex dump of what's inside the eprom. That'll be valuable to hopefully someone someday. Thank goodness you're a veteran member, hopefully you'll be around for the next year to watch progress.
#102
I’ll look forward to it. I believe that will be a great help to many with that system to have it demistified.
Jaguar was one of the pioneers of Fuel injection and we as a society had to learn a great deal. Starting from 3 VW rabbit systems to the finial Ford updated system massive progress has been made.
in the 1980’s90’s and into the 2000’s cars ( all brands) burning because of fuel injection was very common. Less so recently as knowledge was gained.
Jaguar was one of the pioneers of Fuel injection and we as a society had to learn a great deal. Starting from 3 VW rabbit systems to the finial Ford updated system massive progress has been made.
in the 1980’s90’s and into the 2000’s cars ( all brands) burning because of fuel injection was very common. Less so recently as knowledge was gained.
#103
#104
Woah man, don't get butthurt so easily, have you seen the twin supercharged listers' numbers? 604hp on 10psi? Oh wow with an he head too? Dayum. Although it has slightly more cam and port work. And 20 psi isn't hot with new turbo tech and inter-coolers. And I want you to expand on what you said at the end, "Now get get a can of Kylon and some motor honey and fix that X300 right, the way that only you could." Are you unaware that bearings are available?
Last edited by icsamerica; 04-15-2020 at 12:02 PM.
#105
Sorry if I insulted you, I would like you to explain how his factory HE castings are different. If you can, then your point of the HE heads not allowing for boost may be valid. What's known about that motor, is it may have mild cams and a touch of port work. Other than that, airflow through that motor is not much more over a stock 6 liter. So, what do you know? And btw, I've been wrenching for 9 years, not long, haven't done anything revolutionary like what I'm trying to do here. Yeah, I want you to expand on what you said at the end. So far, your negativity has zero depth. I support negativity and skepticism, if it has structure and knowledge behind it, but without structure and knowledge, it's called cynicism. And cynicism does nothing but subtract and take away, it does no one any good what so ever. Please, school me, drop the knowledge bomb. So, anything else regarding the he cylinder head and accepting boost?
Adding on, it would be safe to say, the Lister motor made somewhere in the neighborhood of 370hp-410hp by itself, going off of the rule that 15psi doubles the hp of a motor if it has 9:1 compression, roughly.
Adding on, it would be safe to say, the Lister motor made somewhere in the neighborhood of 370hp-410hp by itself, going off of the rule that 15psi doubles the hp of a motor if it has 9:1 compression, roughly.
Last edited by Ivan Hall; 04-15-2020 at 12:23 PM.
#108
seems i'm the only one on this site that has ACTUALLY had the ceramic coatings done , NO pix says its not happened, just a talk show!
i spoke with Grp44 head engine builder 1994, he said they would of had there engines coated, but was not available then, it was just coming available!
i spoke with Grp44 head engine builder 1994, he said they would of had there engines coated, but was not available then, it was just coming available!
~Paul K.
#109
Well, I thought a ms3 was $2500. Found out the real price. Going to leave the stock ECU where it's at, and have the ms3 just for spark, fuel, and wastegate. Now the question is, can I intercept the sensor signals for the ms3 or will I have to leave stock sensors in and have the ms3 have it's own? A ms3 is $700. Also, ran the **** outa the Jag and knock hasn't changed.
#110
icsa, you mention thermal Ceramic coating of the long exhaust port, i did that to my exhaust ports after polishing , and the complete PreHE head surface(after resurfacing my specified amount), including the valve seats and valves !
done by SWAIN tech ,in NY! top of the line coating company, also the gold coat of piston tops!
26yrs ago , i guess ahead of the curve for engine mods!
so far no problems, i did the head surface trying to keep in more heat expansion to push the pistons more, not have it going into the cooling jackets, that may contribute to Famous Jag V12 overheating!
done by SWAIN tech ,in NY! top of the line coating company, also the gold coat of piston tops!
26yrs ago , i guess ahead of the curve for engine mods!
so far no problems, i did the head surface trying to keep in more heat expansion to push the pistons more, not have it going into the cooling jackets, that may contribute to Famous Jag V12 overheating!
Heck there is one guy who tells people it will cost $20,000 to rebuild a V12.
You had the experience of selling off 3 V12’s for scrap metal prices because you couldn’t find a buyer for them. I had to scrap 35.
Yes I regret it. But like you, there aren’t that many buyers for complete engines. There are web sites like Car-Parts dotcom that list various parts with prices and mileage some with warrantees yet some people keep lumping Jaguars.
If they simply want more power the Jaguar V8 makes up to 510 horsepower and it’s considered an upgrade rather than lumping.
#113
Have you seen this, Bradley Smith's twin supercharged XJS
http://bernardembden.com/xjs/v12power/index.htm
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cjw/
Boosting a HE can be done 20psi maybe pushing it, the V12 has a tendency to lift heads even with no boost as the head studs are very long.
http://bernardembden.com/xjs/v12power/index.htm
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cjw/
Boosting a HE can be done 20psi maybe pushing it, the V12 has a tendency to lift heads even with no boost as the head studs are very long.
Last edited by warrjon; 04-21-2020 at 05:27 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by warrjon:
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#115
Those top fuel engines all tend to have long studs deep into aluminum blocks. On the other hand they don’t use any coolant so there are no water passageways either.
If lack of decking is a real weakness it wouldn’t be that difficult to take a flat plate of aluminum and machine it to fit. I suspect you could actually save weight if instead of the real thick iron sleeves each cylinder has, a person used regular stepped sleeves.
Not saying it would hold up to 9000 horsepower but maybe a little stronger than the open deck. I’m sure Jaguar tested both methods to see and it would be interesting to look at the actual numbers they arrived at.
Seems like there is a lot of eyeball engineering going on without facts or documentation.
My own gut feeling is I’d like to look at the top deck of the 4 liter AJ6*engine see if that too is an open deck.
Considering that engine was pretty much designed from the V12 and long enough after the V12 was made it would give us some indication of if the factory felt the top deck was needed in hindsight.
That had 240*Horsepower from 4 liters compared to 299*. horsepower in theV12.
* euro spec DIN horsepower
If lack of decking is a real weakness it wouldn’t be that difficult to take a flat plate of aluminum and machine it to fit. I suspect you could actually save weight if instead of the real thick iron sleeves each cylinder has, a person used regular stepped sleeves.
Not saying it would hold up to 9000 horsepower but maybe a little stronger than the open deck. I’m sure Jaguar tested both methods to see and it would be interesting to look at the actual numbers they arrived at.
Seems like there is a lot of eyeball engineering going on without facts or documentation.
My own gut feeling is I’d like to look at the top deck of the 4 liter AJ6*engine see if that too is an open deck.
Considering that engine was pretty much designed from the V12 and long enough after the V12 was made it would give us some indication of if the factory felt the top deck was needed in hindsight.
That had 240*Horsepower from 4 liters compared to 299*. horsepower in theV12.
* euro spec DIN horsepower
#116
#117
Cooling plays a part, in sustained throttle, but not much in running more compression, and leaner afr, since peak power is at 12.5:1 af/r. With turbos pressure isn't everything, maybe those people who ran 20 lbs and only made 600hp like Bonner weren't running good turbos, on top of that no intercoolers which at that boost level causes a serious holdback. I just want to hear more about the he head and what the problems where, like if it was just lack of ability to make good numbers or if it was detonation.
To prove my statement to yourself poor a little rubbing alcohol in one hand and a little gasoline in another at the same time.
What will really cool down a charge is if you supplement that with a little windshield washer fluid
If you want to halt Preignition completely while increasing boost do as drag racers have been doing for a long time. Trigger WWfluid at high boost with a knock sensor.
#119
#120