Help! New aluminum radiator has different banjo bolt.
#21
Looking at this radiator, if the photo in the ad is accurate, it only has an inlet on the upper right, and looks like a fill cap on the top of the tank. I put in an aftermarket radiator with only the single inlet, and it was a LOT more work than I thought it would be to plumb the two hoses into one inlet. I made a "tee" adaptor and a pipe to go from the left bank to the tee, granted my skills are not that sharp but it took a looong time to get it all together, ymmv. Now that it's together it's working fine though. That problem may not apply if you don't have a v12, but the cap on top of the tank I think would cause a lot of trouble with mounting.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it.
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it.
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
As far as the OP issue. I do not really see one with the radiator height. You can get spacers of all sizes in all materials fairly easily. Even the local hardware store might carry something that could be filed down to size. why not just file the original spacer down to size? The banjo bolt is an issue. Filing will work though . I have done this before without issue on a different vehicle where I ran into the same problem.
A hydraulic hose place will certainly have everything needed to solve all these issues. 'Hose and fittings' in the bay area (San Leandro) is where I go.
I am glad this thread exists. Perfect timing for me. I hope he actually follows up and finishes this off with the final solution. It should be mandatory on this board to finish the threads you start with a conclusion, even if there is no solution.
Last edited by hoodun; 09-27-2015 at 06:22 PM.
#22
I am a bit concerned with the "she'll be right" approach to some of the cooling system components on a motor that needs the complete system in top condition.
I have a custom aluminium radiator in my own car, top quality locally made in Australia using US sourced furnace brazed core and dimensionally correct, not just close enough. Of course you get what you pay for (Aussie made way more expensive) and I have nothing against chinese manufacturers (own a lot of chinese made stuff) but l am not taking that chance with the radiator in my Jag.
I have a custom aluminium radiator in my own car, top quality locally made in Australia using US sourced furnace brazed core and dimensionally correct, not just close enough. Of course you get what you pay for (Aussie made way more expensive) and I have nothing against chinese manufacturers (own a lot of chinese made stuff) but l am not taking that chance with the radiator in my Jag.
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#23
I just don't understand why Jaguar designed such a cumbersome and overly complex cooling system, nor why people think they need to match OE exactly when buying an aftermarket radiator. If you want OE quality and fitment, buy OE and pay accordingly.
Thin the bolts down a bit and install them.
The core itself is already massively oversized compared to equivalent size engines and I don't think the radiator bleeds need to be permanently connected to the cooling system. They should only need bleeding once at installation or refill. Not entirely sure why Jaguar thought it was necessary.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
If Jaguar was serious about cooling system bleeding, they would've put the bleed tubes on the cylinder heads where they would do the most good.
Thin the bolts down a bit and install them.
The core itself is already massively oversized compared to equivalent size engines and I don't think the radiator bleeds need to be permanently connected to the cooling system. They should only need bleeding once at installation or refill. Not entirely sure why Jaguar thought it was necessary.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
If Jaguar was serious about cooling system bleeding, they would've put the bleed tubes on the cylinder heads where they would do the most good.
#24
It sounds like some of these aftermarket radiators are an improvement. Some claim they are 40% more efficient. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM? some customization for better cooling is an upgrade. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
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#25
It sounds like some of these aftermarket radiators are an improvement. Some claim they are 40% more efficient. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM? some customization for better cooling is an upgrade. I believe this radiator he is installing is better than OEM.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
It seems like everytime I work on my car its a little better than it was. Certainly the case when I replace the crappy rubber everywhere with better quality rubber or poly. I think OEM often is a joke. The prices they charge for inferior items that have been sitting on shelves for 25 years is robbery. Pay $300 for a OEM power steering hose with jaguar rubber, or have the local guy make one with brand new materials that are far superior in every way for $50... you tell me. Anyway, lets start a new OEM thread and keep this one on track.
Last edited by baxtor; 09-28-2015 at 12:33 AM.
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#26
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Chinese aluminum alloy vs Brit brass?
Or design and workmanship issue.
The LT1 in my car has a simple bleed nipple on the high point
of the coolant system on the engine.
One or two f my past critters had high points in he upper
hoses from heads to radiator. Fussy to bleed on refill, but doable.
Carl
Carl. .
Or design and workmanship issue.
The LT1 in my car has a simple bleed nipple on the high point
of the coolant system on the engine.
One or two f my past critters had high points in he upper
hoses from heads to radiator. Fussy to bleed on refill, but doable.
Carl
Carl. .
#27
The core itself is already massively oversized compared to equivalent size engines and I don't think the radiator bleeds need to be permanently connected to the cooling system. They should only need bleeding once at installation or refill. Not entirely sure why Jaguar thought it was necessary.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
The very worst that would happen if that bleed hose contraption was never fitted is that a tiny amount of air would be trapped at the top of the radiator, barely enough to cover the top row of cooling tubes. If the cooling system is that marginal, well you have other issues.
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#28
#29
Mind you, a gizmo on the rad banjo and one on the filler tube would probably work!
Greg
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orangeblossom (09-28-2015)
#30
Let me give everyone an update.
Since I believe there is some interest in whether this can be made to work, I will also list all the issues or modifications that this radiator presents. I assembled everything enough to see what tolerances or fit problems there are.
1. The supplied banjo bolt won't work even with modification -- it isn't long enough.
2. The bleed port on the left side of the radiator doesn't line up well with the cutout on the radiator cover. The cover might have to be modified to provide proper access. See photo.
3. The transmission cooler ports are angled away from the engine bay toward the frame. The lower port has to have the fitting installed prior to putting the radiator in place. Tolerance is zero, with the angle of the aluminum barb fitting resting against the frame. See photo.
4. If you have a mid '87 or newer, the transmission cooler lines have to be modified to work with the barb fittings supplied (or the different thread flare outlet the barb fittings screw onto, though the angle of the lower port may make that difficult or impossible).
5. The threads of both bleed ports are M10-1.50.
I contacted the seller, and they have offered a discount to compensate for the problems.
The question now is, do I go through whatever effort will be required to make this work, or do I return it and start over with either a new rad or a recore?
Is there a lot of interest in seeing how to make this work?
Cheers.
Since I believe there is some interest in whether this can be made to work, I will also list all the issues or modifications that this radiator presents. I assembled everything enough to see what tolerances or fit problems there are.
1. The supplied banjo bolt won't work even with modification -- it isn't long enough.
2. The bleed port on the left side of the radiator doesn't line up well with the cutout on the radiator cover. The cover might have to be modified to provide proper access. See photo.
3. The transmission cooler ports are angled away from the engine bay toward the frame. The lower port has to have the fitting installed prior to putting the radiator in place. Tolerance is zero, with the angle of the aluminum barb fitting resting against the frame. See photo.
4. If you have a mid '87 or newer, the transmission cooler lines have to be modified to work with the barb fittings supplied (or the different thread flare outlet the barb fittings screw onto, though the angle of the lower port may make that difficult or impossible).
5. The threads of both bleed ports are M10-1.50.
I contacted the seller, and they have offered a discount to compensate for the problems.
The question now is, do I go through whatever effort will be required to make this work, or do I return it and start over with either a new rad or a recore?
Is there a lot of interest in seeing how to make this work?
Cheers.
Last edited by Mac Allan; 09-28-2015 at 12:04 PM.
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orangeblossom (09-28-2015)
#31
How very disappointing. The gearbox cooler pipe against the frame of the car is an absolute no no. This will certainly fail in use and ruin your gearbox, not to mention it will fail at the worst possible time, being Sod's Law. I would send it back unless you can find a local aluminium welder who can fix this problem, but from the photo it looks very hard to see how it can be.
You can easily buy longer banjos, particularly so with metric threads, but I would ensure you can get one in the correct size and length before deciding to keep it, assuming the gearbox cooler pipe can be fixed locally.
The radtop panel hole misalignment is just as likely to occur on an OEM replacement, I would not worry about that aspect, just enlarge the holes.
Greg
You can easily buy longer banjos, particularly so with metric threads, but I would ensure you can get one in the correct size and length before deciding to keep it, assuming the gearbox cooler pipe can be fixed locally.
The radtop panel hole misalignment is just as likely to occur on an OEM replacement, I would not worry about that aspect, just enlarge the holes.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 09-28-2015 at 12:25 PM.
#32
Hmmm, I noticed that as of today, the same seller is offering another version:
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
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#33
Totally agree with Greg. the trans cooler pipe is a disaster. If they could not get that right, what else is wrong?
So just how much is a recore of the original rad in your area?
Send it back....recore.....or one of the $800 ish units made in USA.
Although the vendor may quibble at a refund, if he knows you were trying to fit it in a post '87 car.
Did you get a quote for rodding/clean of the OEM rad? I was quoted $150, but I might go with a recore when we look at it opened up.
Rob.
So just how much is a recore of the original rad in your area?
Send it back....recore.....or one of the $800 ish units made in USA.
Although the vendor may quibble at a refund, if he knows you were trying to fit it in a post '87 car.
Did you get a quote for rodding/clean of the OEM rad? I was quoted $150, but I might go with a recore when we look at it opened up.
Rob.
#34
Would cutting a small hole in the frame be crazy talk?
or, you could cut some thread off that insert. that may bring it in enough to get away from the frame. or just a different insert altogether.
the local hydraulic shop prob has something that is a sharper angle and does not stick out as much. NOT this exact fitting but you get the idea!
or, you could cut some thread off that insert. that may bring it in enough to get away from the frame. or just a different insert altogether.
the local hydraulic shop prob has something that is a sharper angle and does not stick out as much. NOT this exact fitting but you get the idea!
Last edited by hoodun; 09-28-2015 at 01:18 PM.
#35
Hmmm, I noticed that as of today, the same seller is offering another version:
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
Rob.
#36
Hmmm, I noticed that as of today, the same seller is offering another version:
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
I know this from bitter personal experience when I fitted a three row rad. I had to do all sorts of messing about with various bits and pieces to get the bonnet to close without fouling the bonnet, as this pic sadly shows:
All this can be overcome, and a three row rad really needs to be made so the rad pins are placed to ensure the rad sits back further rather than more forward. Whether your will be, who knows? FWIW, I would recore the original
Greg
#37
Im guessing its a stock pick. It says it fits the 91 xjs, so I could return it if it doesnt work. There are other options, though this is the cheapest I could find. Considering we replace radiators every 5 years like dist caps, Id like to spend as little as money as possible on something I can toss in a few years. $400 is cheaper than a recore in my area.
#39
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Looking at this radiator, if the photo in the ad is accurate, it only has an inlet on the upper right, and looks like a fill cap on the top of the tank. I put in an aftermarket radiator with only the single inlet, and it was a LOT more work than I thought it would be to plumb the two hoses into one inlet. I made a "tee" adaptor and a pipe to go from the left bank to the tee, granted my skills are not that sharp but it took a looong time to get it all together, ymmv. Now that it's together it's working fine though. That problem may not apply if you don't have a v12, but the cap on top of the tank I think would cause a lot of trouble with mounting.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
Another thing to consider, and I can't tell from the ad, is if it has the fittings for the air bleed system on the top tank. When I was radiator shopping I was told, maybe by Johns Cars?, that some radiators intended for v8 swaps aren't set up for the air bleed, as those engines don't really need it
I ran into quite a few other snags to get the whole thing working, they might not apply to every aftermarket radiator though so I won't spell out the whole list here.
If I did it again, I'd get my stock unit recored, in my case it would have been a lot faster, cost probably comparable if not even cheaper, but we do still have a few radiator shops here in town, not having that might change your equation.
#40
Hmmm, I noticed that as of today, the same seller is offering another version:
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
3 Row 62mm Core Thick Pro Alloy Radiator for Jaguar Series 3 XJS V12 XJ12 New | eBay
That one doesn't have the angled tank. Is the 62mm thickness a problem?
Perhaps I should negotiate an exchange?
I read on one of the 'negatives' for one of these Chinese Rads (can't remember the name of the seller)
That somebody bought a 62mm and it wouldn't fit, in view of which I would be inclined to take that out of the equation.