It is a mix between the XJ-C and the XJ-S.

Lovely car! Very beautiful. Shame that it never entered production.

 

More photos (colour, with large ones at the bottom) and details here:
1985 Daimler XJ-S
Definitely a good-looking car, but I'm not struck on the rear proportions, myself. The removal of the sailplane C pillars pushes the entire cabin forwards, visually, so instead of a long nose and short butt, it has long both. And the chromed B pillar is a bit much. I know they were using the cabriolet pillar, and the production version might have been thinner.

 

I agree with you regarding the B pillar but the absence of the buttresses does not necessarily detract from the design, in my opinion. Both are beautiful. The Sylvia was a famous example of this style (long nose and tail) and it was very successful.

But, of course, taste is personal and ...

 

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread and helped me with vital clues, hints and advice. I have decided to replace all original cooling system with an alluminium & electric upgrade:

• radiator & fans: Alicool set (935.00£)
  • main aluminium radiator (+40% efficiency)
  • cooling unit for automatic gearbox
  • shrouds for electric fans
  • Spal fans (x 2)
  • electric fan controller units
• pump: OEM (but looking for an aftermarket upgrade if someone can advise a good unit)
• thermostat: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=2200&jsn=5858 (x 2)
• Hoses and clamps: made in house by workshop
• Expansion reservoir: OEM (but looking for an aftermarket upgrade if someone can advise a good unit)

Am I forgetting something?

I would now like to discuss the steering rack system as it too needs to be completely overhauled. Can anyone please point me to the best thread on this forum, as I have seen more than one?

Regards to all and, again, thank you to those who contributed.

Tommaso

 

Send the rack to Kiley Clinton in the UK if no local rebuilders.
The OEM water pump needs no upgrade.

What type of electronic controllers have you chosen?

 

Hi Greg,

Controller: I followed your advice and went for the Alicool set that includes the controllers but I do not know what manufacturer/model.

Steering rack: In Italy there is a steering rack overhaul company that uses original ZF components and charges 600€. Have you used Kiley Clinton before? Do you know how much they charge? With Brexit it might be complicated to send and return the item. I was discussing with Steven (MR Injectors) that we might encounter challenges with customs to return an item and pay only for refurbishment VAT, duties and custom fess as they tend to charge taxes based on item value. The refurbishment at Kiley Clinton would have to be competitive to make it worth while...

Water Pump: I made a mistake. I did not mean upgrade as much as replacement. If I can find a cheaper, non OEM, reliable water pump that has proven its quality, I would go with that option to save up on total costs. Reliable being the operative word, here.

Thermostat: Can anyone post images to explain more about these two thermostat modifications: (i) jiggle pin and (ii) hole? I want to show them to my workshop and be sure that they understand exactly what these two modificatoins are and how to do them...

Again, thanks for your advice that I followed! Regards, Tommaso

 

My advice was that alicool rads were good. I did not advise you about their fan control system. I would find out what it is, exactly, and post your findings. My experience has been that most aftermarket control systems are rubbish. I do advise using the Grant Francis system of fan control though. I have a feeling I have mentioned this in this thread before, see post 3.

Get the rack done in Italy seems sensible if there is a place that does it. What with shipping you will not save much.

The OEM water pump needs no aftermarket replacement, it is fine. If yours has a fault, what is the problem? If yours is shot, then OEM preplacement pumps are supplied by all the normal specialists at about 100 quid.

 

Yes you did recommend them and I have been taking notes, from this thread and others, on a separate paper pad. Somehow, that particular advice slipped by and I did not note it down. You have an eagle eye and I owe you for your advice! Thank you. Since I have not yet purchased the Alicool set, I googled "Grant Francis" fan but nothing came up. Kindly, can I ask you to point me in the right direction?

I found threads that discuss steering racks (by the way is the XJ40 rack the same?) and one shows hot to rebuild it but I could not find one that discussed aftermarket manufacturers vs refurbishing which is what I am considering. I will create a new thread so that we can keep this one only about aftermarket cooling.

Mine has no fault. But since I am overhauling one system at the time, as per advice on this forum (was it your recommendation?), I will change everything. Pump, thermostat, hoses, radiator and the expansion tank.

Can anyone help me understand the jiggle pin and the hole in the thermostat with images?

 

Thermostats come either with a jiggle pin, or without. If it doesn't have a jiggle pin, then you should drill a small hole in place of the jiggle pin for the XJS application.

Photos show a thermostat with a jiggle pin, it is the brass piece on the flange with a captive ball. If that is missing, drill a hole in it's place.

 

Tommaso
Grant Francis (the Great XJS Prophet of the Southern Cross), together with Doug (the Sage of Seattle) are the two most knowledgeable guys on the Form, by quite some distance. Both practical in their approach.
I went through all sorts of fan controllers when I went electric (well before I discovered this fantastically nice and helpful forum). None of them stood up to the V12 engine bay, decently hard driving, and reliability and switching temp repeatability requirements. Grant's system saved me.
In principal it works as follows:

1. Fan 1 (the LHS fan) is wired to always come on with the aircon compressor.
2. In the water pump inlet manifold, just above where the lower radiator hose joins the pump, is a temperature thermostat; this switches on the OEM electric fan. This switch is repurposed to trigger a new relay that controls Fan 2.
3. In my case I changed the OEM water pump inlet switch, which OEM is 85 degrees on and off, to an on at 87 off at 82 one. This was to prevent constant fan cycling on and off in traffic.

In the event of you wishing to do this, diagrams and how-to are available.

Now I am NOT saying the alicool controller will be anything but good; I have no experience of it. I am saying, find uot what make and sort it is.

 

Maybe this will rub some people the wrong way, bad luck, I am what I am.

ALL my V12's were converted before Computers, Forums, and such other distractions.

I have a BRAIN, a Shade Tree, and LOTS pf beer. I also have a good dose of Aussie Common Sense.
I have NEVER re-invented the wheel, WHY, its already out there, and works quite well.

Everyone has an opinion, GOOD. Some are based on actually doing what that opinion applies to, some are based on theory and other peoples opinions.
I do NOT post anything here I have NOT actually done and proven.
Our Summers are brutal, our distances from civilisation were HUGE, not now, a pub lunch was 500km round trip. ALL my Jags were TOUGH, and ran none stop hour after hour and I NEVER walked home. People that "bag" Jaguars are blacklisted by me very quickly, as I have that choice.

My need came when a fan blade punched a hole in the bonnet, on the Red HE and I was rather SAD. The distance from home, 420kms, Summer, oh dear, 42C. I cut the fan belt, closed the lid, and drove home, A/C on, and observed that at the speed I was driving (public forum I am not saying that number) my Temp gauge was sitting lower than before, OOPS.

New Fan and hub, HAHAHA, I could buy another XJS for that $$. Bonnet repair $700.

Went looking, what else does one do. Found the Ford fans, and the rest is history.

Thermostats, dont forget you have 2 (TWO), were changed for the correct length stats, as the Jag units are WRONG. NO jiggle pins, too hard, drill a 3/64" hole in the disc of each stat, mount that hole at 12 o'clock when installing, jobs done.

Radiator was out for reasons I now forget, so off to teh specialist, recored, and painted a nice Gloss Black.

Banjo air bleed bolt modified, ALL the hoses changed, and new heater tap. why not.

My wiring was simply my own decision, no one else to blame if it went pear shaped.

In our Summers, 40+C, with the A/C on, so the LH fan runs constantly, the thermo operated fan NEVER comes on, fact.
Without A/C, as in cooler weather, it takes about 5 cycles of a major traffic light controlled road before that fan switches on. I have never timed that situation, waste of brain cells, but would suggest 5+ minutes at least.
In my shed, bonnet open, engine idling, that Thermo fan takes about 30 minutes to operate, roughly 3 beers.

There is NOTHING wrong with the Jag cooling system, OTHER than extremely slack maintaining by previous people. NOT Jaguars problem. Get it right, without re-inventing it, and enjoy the car.

My PreHE, XJ12, has been that way since 1991, and now sits at 655000kms, and has NO issues at all, other than a LOVE for petrol, "stuff happens" as we say.

Some attachments for reading while consuming beers.

 

Thank you Jagboi! Much appreciated. It seems a simple enough modification to ask my mechanic to make. I also seem to understand that the jiggle pin and the hole are not two separate modifications but the same thing. Thank you!

I imagine that this is valid also for the XJ12 car, correct? Same engine, so... sorry if I sound dumb, I am new to the Jaguar world and assumptions that are common for everyone.

 

Thank you Greg! I appreciate the explanation and I apologise for my dumb question but as I am still learning all the idiosyncrasies and given understandings of this forum. Please bear with me.

 

Thank you Grant! Basically your advice is not so much about the controller's manufacturer as much as about the setup itself and the ON/OFF temperatures. Correct? Once I find out what controller the Alicool set offers, then I can simply modify that one, correct?

Thank you for the reading list! Much appreciated. And, yes, I visited Australia and I understand where you come from re reliability, heat and distances.

Regards, Tommaso

 

Nope,

I would not go that path, these "you beaut" electronic things will fail under that bonnet as sure as beer is cold in my fridge. BUT, if you want that thing, go for it.
I like things simple and uncomplicated.

All these new style electrickery things are NOT tried and tested in a Jag V12 environment, they probably have never seen a Jag V12, so their claims are theoretical to me.
My X Type (the pretend Jag) has some multi function Fan Control Module, that costs about the same as an X Type car, IF you can find one. It is mounted IN the fan shrouding and is in COLD air flow, and I have no issues with it, at the moment. Under bonnet temps on the X and the S are a heap lower than any of the V12 Jags.

I use the Jaguar fitted switch in the water pump inlet spout.

I left all mine with the 85C switch, and have never had an issue.
OK, the PreHE XJ has some other stupid arrangement, so I got a HE Inlet Spout, the 85C switch, and called it done.

We had "whiz bang" controllers here (again public forum so NO names will be mentioned), I have NOT used them, but others in my area did, and one partially cooked his engine when that controller failed to control.

They all returned to factory switch and my wire schematics, and are still just fine.

I did add a wire from the relay EARTH terminal to a switch inside the cabin, so I could switch that relay ON if something failed to do as needed. NEVER flicked that switch ever.

I know you are new, congratulations, but dont overthink things, the Daimler, and the especially the V12, is a SIMPLE car, and if maintained as designed, with some sensible 21st century upgrades, will outlast you.

BUT

Dont forget to upgrade your alternator IF yo go Thermo fans. The unit on that car is possibly?? 75amp, and will not handle the current draw. I used a 110amp from an XJ40 way back in the early days, and never regretted it.

 

Tommaso
You misunderstand Grant and my points. His system, which I also use, is stand alone; all you need to buy is one 50 amp relay and do some wiring. No aftermarket controller is required.

 

Greg, again, thank you. All this help is precious and I appreciate your patience with my misunderstanding and mix ups.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. First of all for your patience with an obviously inexpert mechanic but also for the wealth of information and help that you are offering me!

So, to recap... hoping that I understood correctly:
1. install the two thermostats with the jiggle pins or after having made the two holes, as explained in earlier posts.
2. upgrade alternator to 110amp
3. large fan (RH): install a simple switch that activates the fan by the thermostat (either left or right hand units) @ 85C or use Greg's 82C to 87C switching system
4. small fan (LH): install a simple switch that activates the fan when the A/C is switched on
5. add a wire from the relay earth terminal of the large fan to aswitch inside the cabin
6. get rid of all controller units
7. install the Alicool radiator w/ shrouds and fans
8. install the new water pump (OEM)

Thank you! Grant, I wish I could express my gratitude by sending you a case of beer but I don't know what beer you like! At a guess it would not be a German beer...

Smiles from Italy and, again, thank you!

 

Tommaso,

Basically, you have nailed it.

The "switches" you mentioning are in fact relays. One for the Main Fan, One for the A/C fan.

The Main relay is Ign switched/activated, and the EARTH is via the Coolant Switch already in the Water Pump Inlet Spout.
The A/C is wired as a normal relay is, with the "on switching" of that relay coming from the A/C Compressor activation wire via a simple splice.

The thermostats will not need holes drilled it they come with Jiggle Pins. HOWEVER, I like the holes, less to go wrong, and if any stat I get has those pins, I remove them, and then you have holes. Make sure those holes go at 12 O'clock when installing them, which makes bleeding that system a simple procedure.

Mate, beer is a long time NO GO for me. I got told by the Human Vet, to cease the alcohol or lose the Right Leg, took 2 seconds to decide. Very bad work accident in Papua New Guinea a looong time ago, and I have kept amputation away all these years, and will do so until I move on from this crazy mixed up world. THANK YOU for the thought.

YOU have a beer or 2 for me, and the saving of another V12 to annoy the crap out of the Electric Car people is more than enough for me. I am yet to get to Greg and reek havoc in France, one day soon I hope.

Keep asking mate, dont ponder too much. We take these things as simple tasks, and forget others struggle a tad.

 

You are correct, works well in the saloon. If you buy thermostats with jiggle pins ( like the ones Doug mentioned in another thread) then no modification is needed. Fit them as they are.

You have a 1992 Daimler? Very nice, I had a 1992 Jaguar version, made only for Canada and they only made 100 cars. I had #53 /100. These cars already have a Bosch 115A alternator, so you're probably ok there.

 

Thank you Grant. Do you know what I like best of your advice? It is stupid simple. I like it partly because I am mechanically-retarded (or as politically correct mob would prefer I am "differently mechanically skilled and able") and partly because what is not there, cannot break.

As for electric cars... no worries! I trade in physical contracts of cargoes of oil & gas and often visit oil terminals and refineries: electric cars are not in my books.

Sorry to hear about your beer impediment ... I spoke with my wife and we will gladly invite you to stay with us when we are in Naples, when you visit Greg. So, after you will have had a chance to experienced french cars, fashion, food, wine and cheese, you will have also have the chance to experience the good stuff! (apologies Greg, I just could not resist!). This is the view from my Daimler's garage, that I can offer as a thank you, for all your help!