How do I get The Front Brake Hose Off XJS V12?
#21
05-19-2014, 05:14 AM
Veteran Member
OB
Those brake pipes are flared, not olived. They look like the ones that join the flexible from where it is fixed at the top of the caliper to the bottom inlet. To remake these you need a flaring tool that can do the correct flare, or much better if you have no tool, buy a couple for the front and the three needed for the rears, from (eg) David Manners or Ward Engineering, flared and all ready to put on.
The very best reconditioned brake calipers, jaguar axle componenets, hubs, differentials superflex polyurethane bushes also wheel bearing kits, drive shaft ujs, cobra axles for dax, ak,
Do not hurry this! they will do a next day delivery service. Buy the right bits and (copyright G Francis)"Do it once and do it right". FWIW I am full of admiration for what you have already done and are doing. Another couple of years dedicated work and the car wil have no mysteries for you. And when your mates, looking under the bonnet in wonder, say to you "Do you know what all these wires do?" you will be able to nonchalently say, oh yes...
Greg
Those brake pipes are flared, not olived. They look like the ones that join the flexible from where it is fixed at the top of the caliper to the bottom inlet. To remake these you need a flaring tool that can do the correct flare, or much better if you have no tool, buy a couple for the front and the three needed for the rears, from (eg) David Manners or Ward Engineering, flared and all ready to put on.
The very best reconditioned brake calipers, jaguar axle componenets, hubs, differentials superflex polyurethane bushes also wheel bearing kits, drive shaft ujs, cobra axles for dax, ak,
Do not hurry this! they will do a next day delivery service. Buy the right bits and (copyright G Francis)"Do it once and do it right". FWIW I am full of admiration for what you have already done and are doing. Another couple of years dedicated work and the car wil have no mysteries for you. And when your mates, looking under the bonnet in wonder, say to you "Do you know what all these wires do?" you will be able to nonchalently say, oh yes...
Greg
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orangeblossom (05-20-2014)
#22
05-19-2014, 10:22 AM
OB
Those brake pipes are flared, not olived. They look like the ones that join the flexible from where it is fixed at the top of the caliper to the bottom inlet. To remake these you need a flaring tool that can do the correct flare, or much better if you have no tool, buy a couple for the front and the three needed for the rears, from (eg) David Manners or Ward Engineering, flared and all ready to put on.
The very best reconditioned brake calipers, jaguar axle componenets, hubs, differentials superflex polyurethane bushes also wheel bearing kits, drive shaft ujs, cobra axles for dax, ak,
Do not hurry this! they will do a next day delivery service. Buy the right bits and (copyright G Francis)"Do it once and do it right". FWIW I am full of admiration for what you have already done and are doing. Another couple of years dedicated work and the car wil have no mysteries for you. And when your mates, looking under the bonnet in wonder, say to you "Do you know what all these wires do?" you will be able to nonchalently say, oh yes...
Greg
Those brake pipes are flared, not olived. They look like the ones that join the flexible from where it is fixed at the top of the caliper to the bottom inlet. To remake these you need a flaring tool that can do the correct flare, or much better if you have no tool, buy a couple for the front and the three needed for the rears, from (eg) David Manners or Ward Engineering, flared and all ready to put on.
The very best reconditioned brake calipers, jaguar axle componenets, hubs, differentials superflex polyurethane bushes also wheel bearing kits, drive shaft ujs, cobra axles for dax, ak,
Do not hurry this! they will do a next day delivery service. Buy the right bits and (copyright G Francis)"Do it once and do it right". FWIW I am full of admiration for what you have already done and are doing. Another couple of years dedicated work and the car wil have no mysteries for you. And when your mates, looking under the bonnet in wonder, say to you "Do you know what all these wires do?" you will be able to nonchalently say, oh yes...
Greg
http://
#23
05-19-2014, 11:21 AM
Veteran Member
Congrats, lovely to have tools. May I suggest you practice with the flarer on some old pieces of brakepipe before you do the real piece? That set will work, but is not particularly easy to use, I bought one and hated it! The flare is a double flare and it needs practise using that tool to get right. If a prob, your friendly local garage will do it for you I am sure.
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 05-19-2014 at 11:27 AM.
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orangeblossom (05-20-2014)
#24
05-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Congrats, lovely to have tools. May I suggest you practice with the flarer on some old pieces of brakepipe before you do the real piece? That set will work, but is not particularly easy to use, I bought one and hated it! The flare is a double flare and it needs practise using that tool to get right. If a prob, your friendly local garage will do it for you I am sure.
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
Thanks for your encouragement and continued support, having ordered everything to refurbish the front end brakes, including new brake hoses for the rear.
I spent the day going round collecting everything.
Two New Front Calipers, New Brake Hoses, Slotted Brake Pads, 5ltr Dot4 and everything else in between, leaving no stones unturned in my quest for braking perfection, short of having a parachute in the back!
As I predicted the lock nuts for the front brake hoses were not included and even the Jaguar Dealership didn't have any!
The Local Motor factors didn't have them either and its always these little things that hold the job up.
Having encountered this problem before, I had to go to a specialist fastener supplier, who asked me what color I wanted! They had every nut and bolt that I have ever seen and even ones I didn't know existed!
Since they don't charge *********** prices, I bought loads of them, including some with 'nylocks' as it looks like they may fit.
Apart from new rear hoses, I will leave refurbing the back end until after the summer, which will include new rear discs and 'but stop me now if this won't work' was thinking of 'Hot dip galvanizing' the IRS Cage.
I've used that flaring kit before, on another Vehicle and it did take several goes to get it right, it has sat in the garage for years but when you need it nothing else will do!
The whole shebang came to exactly £200 which I think was a bit of a bargain and I also got lots of free stuff thrown in as well, including dozens of male and female ends to make up the brake pipes.
Everyone was so helpful that I had an enjoyable day, although tomorrow the real work begins but I am so getting into it now that I cannot wait to get started!
#25
05-21-2014, 03:38 AM
Veteran Member
Good for you. And also good idea to do the rear cage, brake calipers etc as a winter project. Once the cage is out (a morning's work not more) it is quite easy to work on. The hardest part will be removing the inner driveshaft nuts from the diff output flange/disc retaining studs. These stud threads get very rusted and the nuts very hard to turn. Bathe them in 50% acetone/50% ATF cocktail shaken mixture for several days beforehand. The 600mm breaker bar will be MOST useful! As to the HDG idea, I love it. Never done it of course, but I love the fix and forget thing. Sodding sight better than endless prep and scrub before painting etc etc. What might be worth doing to prevent distortion and general foul up is:
(a) be prepared to buy another cage from a breaker if HDG screws it up;
(b) Make up a steel "faux frame" to replicate the bottom tie plate so that the cage remains braced during the hot dip. Do the tie plate as a separate piece;
(c) you could even cross brace the open bottom of the cage each side of the tie plate where it slopes up to the hub ends too, for total peace of mind.
(d) go over all the welds on the cage carefully and beef up any that look iffy.
(e) there is a fixing on the cage each side, just above the tie plate that provides the location for the inner bottom wishbone fulcrum pin and bearing. The inner surface of this and the pin hole has to be protected somehow from being galvanised, or I imagine the inner surface will be ruined for the grease seal etc, and the hole will be the wrong size to accept the pin back in.
There are various captive nuts, some in little welded cages all over the cage, I think you would have to remove these and reinstall them after the dip. There are specially shaped holes in the top for the differential fixing bolts that might have to be protected against the galvanisation. I suppose it depends on the thickness of the layer that is deposited. Be prepared to have to retap any un-removeable threaded fixings on the cage. I have no idea how important it would be to worry about these things, but it needs looking at and checking before you do it.
Greg
(a) be prepared to buy another cage from a breaker if HDG screws it up;
(b) Make up a steel "faux frame" to replicate the bottom tie plate so that the cage remains braced during the hot dip. Do the tie plate as a separate piece;
(c) you could even cross brace the open bottom of the cage each side of the tie plate where it slopes up to the hub ends too, for total peace of mind.
(d) go over all the welds on the cage carefully and beef up any that look iffy.
(e) there is a fixing on the cage each side, just above the tie plate that provides the location for the inner bottom wishbone fulcrum pin and bearing. The inner surface of this and the pin hole has to be protected somehow from being galvanised, or I imagine the inner surface will be ruined for the grease seal etc, and the hole will be the wrong size to accept the pin back in.
There are various captive nuts, some in little welded cages all over the cage, I think you would have to remove these and reinstall them after the dip. There are specially shaped holes in the top for the differential fixing bolts that might have to be protected against the galvanisation. I suppose it depends on the thickness of the layer that is deposited. Be prepared to have to retap any un-removeable threaded fixings on the cage. I have no idea how important it would be to worry about these things, but it needs looking at and checking before you do it.
Greg
Last edited by Greg in France; 05-21-2014 at 03:43 AM.
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orangeblossom (05-21-2014)
#26
05-21-2014, 05:08 AM
Good for you. And also good idea to do the rear cage, brake calipers etc as a winter project. Once the cage is out (a morning's work not more) it is quite easy to work on. The hardest part will be removing the inner driveshaft nuts from the diff output flange/disc retaining studs. These stud threads get very rusted and the nuts very hard to turn. Bathe them in 50% acetone/50% ATF cocktail shaken mixture for several days beforehand. The 600mm breaker bar will be MOST useful! As to the HDG idea, I love it. Never done it of course, but I love the fix and forget thing. Sodding sight better than endless prep and scrub before painting etc etc. What might be worth doing to prevent distortion and general foul up is:
(a) be prepared to buy another cage from a breaker if HDG screws it up;
(b) Make up a steel "faux frame" to replicate the bottom tie plate so that the cage remains braced during the hot dip. Do the tie plate as a separate piece;
(c) you could even cross brace the open bottom of the cage each side of the tie plate where it slopes up to the hub ends too, for total peace of mind.
(d) go over all the welds on the cage carefully and beef up any that look iffy.
(e) there is a fixing on the cage each side, just above the tie plate that provides the location for the inner bottom wishbone fulcrum pin and bearing. The inner surface of this and the pin hole has to be protected somehow from being galvanised, or I imagine the inner surface will be ruined for the grease seal etc, and the hole will be the wrong size to accept the pin back in.
There are various captive nuts, some in little welded cages all over the cage, I think you would have to remove these and reinstall them after the dip. There are specially shaped holes in the top for the differential fixing bolts that might have to be protected against the galvanisation. I suppose it depends on the thickness of the layer that is deposited. Be prepared to have to retap any un-removeable threaded fixings on the cage. I have no idea how important it would be to worry about these things, but it needs looking at and checking before you do it.
Greg
(a) be prepared to buy another cage from a breaker if HDG screws it up;
(b) Make up a steel "faux frame" to replicate the bottom tie plate so that the cage remains braced during the hot dip. Do the tie plate as a separate piece;
(c) you could even cross brace the open bottom of the cage each side of the tie plate where it slopes up to the hub ends too, for total peace of mind.
(d) go over all the welds on the cage carefully and beef up any that look iffy.
(e) there is a fixing on the cage each side, just above the tie plate that provides the location for the inner bottom wishbone fulcrum pin and bearing. The inner surface of this and the pin hole has to be protected somehow from being galvanised, or I imagine the inner surface will be ruined for the grease seal etc, and the hole will be the wrong size to accept the pin back in.
There are various captive nuts, some in little welded cages all over the cage, I think you would have to remove these and reinstall them after the dip. There are specially shaped holes in the top for the differential fixing bolts that might have to be protected against the galvanisation. I suppose it depends on the thickness of the layer that is deposited. Be prepared to have to retap any un-removeable threaded fixings on the cage. I have no idea how important it would be to worry about these things, but it needs looking at and checking before you do it.
Greg
Its hard to believe that anyone would give that idea the 'Thumbs Up' as there is always some distortion of sorts.
But as I have never seen the IRS Cage, except by looking underneath the Car, I really don't know what's involved until I drop it out.
So as far as Galvanizing goes, I suppose as usual I will be the 'guinea pig' but having said that, I've galvanized stuff on other cars without a problem.
It's taken me for ever to remove the flexible hoses! as I cannot get the Air Filter lids off.
The reason being that while I can undo the clips so I can hinge them open, I cannot get the lids off, without taking the paper element out first.
And they won't come out! The Paper Elements are stuck fast and won't budge.
Are they bolted in or something like that?
Unless I can get those lids off, its going to difficult to connect the Brake Pipes and put the Lock Nuts on.
So any ideas?
#27
05-21-2014, 05:37 AM
Veteran Member
Get a bit rougher with the lids and filters. The lids are just poked into slots on the inner at the bottom. The filters have a steel outer with a rubber seal that has probably bonded onto the inner steel part of the filter box, does not matter if you have to vandalise them to get them out as you need new ones anyway.
Get a flat bladed screwdriver into the top of the filter, between the steel/rubber outer of the filter and the inside of the steel part of the filter box, and prise out the top of the filter to break the rubber bond.
ie generally vandalise the filter until it lets go! By the by, ensure the new filters you get are the correct ones, as certain later cars, for all I know yours, have the hole for the throttle body on the inside of the filter in a different place. this is because the filter box is placed differently to allow room for the later ABS stuff on the brake/bulkead.
By the way, where did you get all that brake stuff from so cheaply?
Greg
Get a flat bladed screwdriver into the top of the filter, between the steel/rubber outer of the filter and the inside of the steel part of the filter box, and prise out the top of the filter to break the rubber bond.
ie generally vandalise the filter until it lets go! By the by, ensure the new filters you get are the correct ones, as certain later cars, for all I know yours, have the hole for the throttle body on the inside of the filter in a different place. this is because the filter box is placed differently to allow room for the later ABS stuff on the brake/bulkead.
By the way, where did you get all that brake stuff from so cheaply?
Greg
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orangeblossom (05-21-2014)
#28
05-21-2014, 05:55 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PHX some of the time
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orangeblossom (05-21-2014)
#29
05-21-2014, 06:10 AM
Get a bit rougher with the lids and filters. The lids are just poked into slots on the inner at the bottom. The filters have a steel outer with a rubber seal that has probably bonded onto the inner steel part of the filter box, does not matter if you have to vandalise them to get them out as you need new ones anyway.
Get a flat bladed screwdriver into the top of the filter, between the steel/rubber outer of the filter and the inside of the steel part of the filter box, and prise out the top of the filter to break the rubber bond.
ie generally vandalise the filter until it lets go! By the by, ensure the new filters you get are the correct ones, as certain later cars, for all I know yours, have the hole for the throttle body on the inside of the filter in a different place. this is because the filter box is placed differently to allow room for the later ABS stuff on the brake/bulkead.
By the way, where did you get all that brake stuff from so cheaply?
Greg
Get a flat bladed screwdriver into the top of the filter, between the steel/rubber outer of the filter and the inside of the steel part of the filter box, and prise out the top of the filter to break the rubber bond.
ie generally vandalise the filter until it lets go! By the by, ensure the new filters you get are the correct ones, as certain later cars, for all I know yours, have the hole for the throttle body on the inside of the filter in a different place. this is because the filter box is placed differently to allow room for the later ABS stuff on the brake/bulkead.
By the way, where did you get all that brake stuff from so cheaply?
Greg
So I get full Trade Discount, everywhere I go!
She has also got one of the most incredible assets any girl can have and that is having a Father who is an expert Welder!
Which is one of the reasons why I love her as much as I do!
Now where did I put that 'Crow Bar!
Thanks for your help.
#30
05-21-2014, 06:11 AM
Did you see this thread? https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-rebuild-9768/
I will take a look.
#31
05-21-2014, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tehama County, California, USA
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orangeblossom (05-21-2014)
#32
05-21-2014, 12:41 PM
I hope I've got a Flare for this sort of thing!
Congrats, lovely to have tools. May I suggest you practice with the flarer on some old pieces of brakepipe before you do the real piece? That set will work, but is not particularly easy to use, I bought one and hated it! The flare is a double flare and it needs practise using that tool to get right. If a prob, your friendly local garage will do it for you I am sure.
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
Are you renewing the rear calipers too? If so, I am very sorry to tell you that it is a "drop the rear subframe" job - assuming you have the inboard brakes. While not as bad as it sounds, it is a decent sized job! If so, tell us and we will post clear intructions!!
With new front everything and new flexible and pads at the rear, you should be OK, if perfectionism seems too much right now!
Greg
My first attempt with the 'Brake Pipe Making Tool' I hope its not beginners luck, as I've still got to make one for the other side!
http://
#33
05-21-2014, 12:50 PM
She is about as useless as an Ashtray on a Motorbike.
Of course I'm only Joking!
I really meant Chocolate Fireplace!
#34
05-22-2014, 02:06 AM
Veteran Member
Hi Greg
My first attempt with the 'Brake Pipe Making Tool' I hope its not beginners luck, as I've still got to make one for the other side!
http://
My first attempt with the 'Brake Pipe Making Tool' I hope its not beginners luck, as I've still got to make one for the other side!
http://
RH flare is hard to see from the photo, but as long as you are sure the flares are Ok for the fitting they go into? Here is an explanation just in case you are not 100% sure:
Overhauling Brake Pipes
On the galvanising, it seems I am too adventurous, so apologies for encouraging you to do something unwise. Certainly best to err on the side of caution. But certainly getting the cage professionally chemically stripped etc before you paint it up with POR 15 or similar is a great idea. There are loads of firms now that strip shells and so on for classics, and getting ther cage done would save hours of horrible work.
greg
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orangeblossom (05-22-2014)
#35
05-22-2014, 03:14 AM
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orangeblossom (05-22-2014)
#36
05-22-2014, 06:05 AM
Veteran Member
Greg
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orangeblossom (05-22-2014)
#37
05-22-2014, 07:55 AM
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orangeblossom (05-22-2014)
#38
05-22-2014, 05:42 PM
OB
RH flare is hard to see from the photo, but as long as you are sure the flares are Ok for the fitting they go into? Here is an explanation just in case you are not 100% sure:
Overhauling Brake Pipes
On the galvanising, it seems I am too adventurous, so apologies for encouraging you to do something unwise. Certainly best to err on the side of caution. But certainly getting the cage professionally chemically stripped etc before you paint it up with POR 15 or similar is a great idea. There are loads of firms now that strip shells and so on for classics, and getting ther cage done would save hours of horrible work.
greg
RH flare is hard to see from the photo, but as long as you are sure the flares are Ok for the fitting they go into? Here is an explanation just in case you are not 100% sure:
Overhauling Brake Pipes
On the galvanising, it seems I am too adventurous, so apologies for encouraging you to do something unwise. Certainly best to err on the side of caution. But certainly getting the cage professionally chemically stripped etc before you paint it up with POR 15 or similar is a great idea. There are loads of firms now that strip shells and so on for classics, and getting ther cage done would save hours of horrible work.
greg
Good Job you pointed that out! as I put the wrong flares on 'both' ends of the pipe!
But I've got that sorted out now and made some new ones which I have double and triple checked!
Its taken me 2 days (rained off on day3) to do something that most if not all of the Guys on here could probably do in an afternoon but I am taking my time on this to do my best to try and get it right.
But weather permitting, I 'could' be up and running by tomorrow, if I can manage to bleed the ABS Brakes.
#39
05-22-2014, 05:59 PM
Having got the Calipers, I have now put them on but had a bit of a hold up in finding some locking wire but that has been done and the brake pads are now in.
So Tomorrow, Put on New Brake Hoses, Bleed the Abs Brakes, put on the Road Wheels and then go for several short test drives, to make sure that all is ok.
Not Forgetting my Fire Extinguisher! and my Mobile Phone!
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rgp (05-23-2014)
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