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I must once again call upon all you XJS savants' expertise and patience to help me tackle a job that I’ve been hoping to avoid.
As I reported on my return from Monterey Car Week there were noises there shouldn’t be from the rear-end. It looks like there is a leak from the diff that gets burned off the rear brake discs so it doesn’t leave any evidence on the garage floor. As I was procrastinating dealing with that, I was making sure to start the beast occasionally and let it get to temp to keep her fit, but the last time I did that there was a distinct fuel smell and found that it is leaking directly over the IRS cage so there is no putting it off anymore [sigh].
Sooooo, I’ve got to drop the IRS, fix the fuel leak, and fix the diff leak, and and and… I’ve been reading the forums for too long and know that if the cage is coming down, one might as well do etc. and etc. I assume brake pads and discs, but what else?
Before I even contemplate getting stuck in, I want to order whatever parts and misc I’ll need, and will appreciate your collective wisdom of what parts, and perhaps where to get them.
What should go on to my shopping list?
Then there is the ‘how the heck do I do this in my humble garage?’ part. In anticipation, I’ve invested in the newer version of the QuickJack 7000TL with extensions necessary to lift the XJS, which I believe will safely lift the car high enough (27”/68.5cm) to drop the cage and where I can pull it out to work on it. However, that’s as far ahead as I’ve thought and I imagine the IRS unit isn’t particularly light and I’ll have to know to deal with it safely.
So I would very much appreciate whatever guidance and wisdom that you offer ahead of time, and there may be some handholding once I get stuck in.
27" may not be enough (mine is also sat on quick jacks) I found out the hard way you need to subtract the minimum height of your transmission jack on its lowest setting, I don't recommend trying to drop the subframe on a trolley jack alone. Lot of IF's to go with your ands ;- if you can take it out the side it is a little more do-able, if you have two people you may get away with it. You may want to remove the grease fittings from the bottom pivot so that you don't inadvertently break one off. My subframe is back in position as I couldn't get it out from under (my tranny jack at its lowest ieaves the too high). If you can I would suggest staging your wheels on something like this
and then setting your quick jacks on a wood platform such as railroad ties / sleepers- this will be my next strategy, With the quick jacks make sure to get the tall hard rubber blocks, I also bought some hockey pucks that I drilled out to avoid point loading the jacking points.
It's really not that hard to drop, removing the radius arms can be a bear I've heard but my air impact hammer made easy work of them, if you do this on your quick jacks make sure the radius arm will clear the jack platform rear end - (I made that mistake too), I'd recommend the use of a decent impact wrench on the radius arrm bolts and the mounting bolts if the bolts are stubborn, applying a few cycles of heat and penetrant wouldn't go amiss, the nuts on the prop shaft are no fun at all and the exhaust is at least two cases of beer, I ran out of beer and cut mine off. there is only a single brake hose and the hanfbrake cable after that - think yours might have the speedo fitting on the diff someplace.
For the diff it depends what you have, I don't think you have a Dana (many of the parts for which are now made of unobtanium), I'd refurb the calipers and handbrake mech's, pads and discs obviously, sounds like you will need diff seals for sure and then maybe bearings but only maybe, but it would be unwise to do the seals without doing a thorough inspect on the rest, a Fosseway remote brake bleed kit should be on your list too. Don't plan to re-use the mounts, and refurb your radius arms,
So much depends on how much you plan to do yourself. and how far you want to go but it sounds like a significant tear down is in orded. A rebuilt diff will not be cheap, it is DIY'able depending how easily intimidated you are..
If you have room to remove the IRS from the side rather than the rear you won't have to lift the car too high. The pic shows my sedan but I'm sure the same is true of the XJS
The area where you see the jackstand is elevated maybe 12"-14"
Unless you can pull the Cage out from the Side, then I wouldn't use those Quick Jacks, as they probably won't go high enough and will probably get in the way, ask me how I know or rather don't
Have a look at my Step by Step Guide, which includes Shedloads of Photos and build a Rig to Support the Car from Scaffolding Poles like I did, which I think is much Safer than using Axle Stands, as long as you Chock the Front Wheels!
I pulled mine out the side on a gravel driveway. So if you've got a garage you'll be fine. Disconnect the trailing arms from the car body while the car is on the ground. They can sometimes be quite stuck. When you're ready to drop it, undo the driveshaft and exhaust, then its only 8 bolts. It has a desire to roll forward if you're supporting it with a jack, so put the jack closer to the nose of the diff than you might be inclined to do otherwise.
As for what parts you need? Diff seals, rotors, pads, maybe calipers, the one rubber brake hose, shocks, the rubber thingies that hold the cage to the car. If you're feeling ambitious there are all the fulcrum bearings on the wishbones. Its probably easier and cheaper to get new trailing arms than it is to have the bushings pushed out and new ones pushed in. Unless you've already got a suitable press. There are two diffs. One was only used for a couple of years, and it was before your car was made, but that will affect just which seals you need. So figure that out before you order parts. One has a drain plug and the other doesn't, but I can't remember which is which.
If you have room to remove the IRS from the side rather than the rear you won't have to lift the car too high. The pic shows my sedan but I'm sure the same is true of the XJS
Hi Doug,
Yes I've got room to pull it out from the side, so I'll focus on that approach.
As I'm looking at OB's thread and reviewing a couple of others, I have some preliminary questions:
1. Approximately how much does the full IRS unit weigh?
2. I watched the Wheeler Dealer episode where Elvis removed the IRS from the XJ6, and it appears that you need a secure but moveable platform to hold the IRS when you raise the car after undoing the mounts, but when it comes time to remove the discs, you have to have a way to raise diff enough to have the wishbones extend all the way down to get the discs off. Is that correct? Does something like this:
Makes sense for this purpose?
As I'm looking at OB's thread and reviewing a couple of others, I have some preliminary questions:
1. Approximately how much does the full IRS unit weigh?
2. I watched the Wheeler Dealer episode where Elvis removed the IRS from the XJ6, and it appears that you need a secure but moveable platform to hold the IRS when you raise the car after undoing the mounts, but when it comes time to remove the discs, you have to have a way to raise diff enough to have the wishbones extend all the way down to get the discs off. Is that correct? Does something like this:
Makes sense for this purpose?
That's the kind of jack I use. Works great.
I don't know what the IRS weighs, but it is extremely heavy. With that jack, one person can do the job if you can get the car high enough to get it out the back. If you have to pull it out the side, you need two people because you have to slide the jack sideways instead of rolling it. You'll also need the strap the IRS to the jack.
You seem to be describing two completely different methods of doing this job, as you don't need the 'Wishbones' hanging down unless you are intending to remove the Rotors while the Cage is still attached to the Car
That being the Case, then it would be better to do this on a proper Garage Lift because with the Wishbones hanging down, then you are going to need more height than doing this by either of the other two methods (out the back or out the side)
As I mentioned in another unrelated post 'I'm not built like Arnie' and even have a struggle lifting one of those Heavy Road Wheels off the Ground
But I have removed Three Cages from my Three XJS's all by myself with no assistance whatsoever and I didn't even break one bead of Sweat and in fact I found it so easy to do, that removing the Cage is one of my Favorite Jobs! and all I had to do this was a 3 Ton Trolley Jack
From my own personal point of View, I prefer pulling the Cage out from the Back, as that way you have enough height to disconnect the Propshaft and the Hand Brake as well as the Flexi Brake Pipe and all the other little bits and pieces
If you're going to take the Cage out, then you want to do it ALL and not just change the Rotors, as the Hand Brake and the Handbrake Pads will come back to haunt you when you least expect it, so referbing the Cage is really 'An all or nothing Job' (Do it once and do it all or leave it alone)
On balance if you're not quite sure if you want to do this, then it may be better and more cost effective to buy a Completely Refurbished Cage for $3,000 in the event that you maybe thinking of buying one of those amazing Jacks, because by the time that you have bought stuff like that
The Cost can soon add up, even though the Parts are Cheap enough and I have refurbed my own Cages for less than $300 each though the less you spend, then the more that you need to be prepared to do for yourself, like refurbing Calipers instead of buying New or Service Exchange ones
Whatever way you decide to go, just make sure the Car can't fall on you, and that is why I decided to make my own Support Rig, out of Scaffolding Poles
Then you can do the Job without feeling Nervous about what could happen
You seem to be describing two completely different methods of doing this job, as you don't need the 'Wishbones' hanging down unless you are intending to remove the Rotors while the Cage is still attached to the Car
Apologies @orangeblossom if I wasn't more clear. I was describing what I saw in the Wheeler Dealer episode. After Elvis had completely removed the cage from the XJ6, and was working on the IRS sitting on a hydraulic lift cart, he couldn't remove the discs without lifting the IRS off the cart with a hoist far enough to get the Wishbone Radius Arms to hang down for the discs to clear the studs.
Therefore it looks like I need to both have a means to get the IRS as low as possible to pull it out from under the car, then once out be able to raise it enough for the discs to clear the studs. Is that a more accurate way to describe it? Or am I missing something? Thanks
Once it's out of the car, roll it 90 degrees onto its nose. Then you can move the lower control arms out of the way. No need to raise it up. Obviously, take the calipers off first.
Cheers! I get it now but it could still be worth Considering buying a fully built recon unit or getting a price from a Shop to rebuild it for you, as it's one of those jobs that when you Start, then you just have to keep going until you've got it done no matter what
Though if you're only planning to Change the Rotors, it really may not cost that much (in the Scheme of things) to get a Shop to Change your Rotors for you on their Ramp, as it won't take them nearly as long with all their equipment to hand
My experience with the IRS;
I pulled it out from the side on a low profile trolley jack. Did it on my own. I built a mounting plate to fit the underside of the cage frame out of 3/4 inch plywood and bolted it to the pad on my trolley jack. If I remember correctly it's front of the car heavy so the center of gravity is forward of the line of the driveshafts.
After getting it clear of the car I then raised the jack and shuffled the IRS onto a piece of plywood on top of a couple of concrete blocks and worked on it there. That allowed me enough height to disconnect and drop the wishbones to get the discs off. It is SUPER heavy!
I had leaking output shaft seals, knackered shocks, discs, calipers and handbrake calipers. I replaced/refurbished all of these but didn't touch the wishbone bearings/hubs/wheel bearings/universal joints, just greased these. I honestly don't know how you would replace the calipers/discs without removing the IRS although I know some people have done this
I built this cart a few years ago for like $30, the dollies were from Harbor Freight. I can slide my floor jack in lower the IRS remove the jack and reattach the support. Then roll it anywhere I like. Remove the parking brake assy, calipers and axle nuts and roll it over to the engine hoist, aka cherry picker. Use a chain and eye bolts to lift it as high as you need after loosening the tie plate. I rebuilt my stub axles last year.
Completely agree with you on that, it's almost impossible on a GKN Diff but on a Dana Diff if you're lucky, you may be able to get a Socket through the holes in the Rotors, although I really wouldn't want to take a bet on that, especially if the Rotors are OEM Split Discs
Mac, which ever way you do it don't put the OEM Split Disc Type back, the Solid After Market Rotors are better and almost everyone on the Forum, seems to agree with that
You shouldn't need to raise the IRS once its out of the car. Your best bet will be to remove the cage from everything else. There are bolts to the top of the diff, bolts to the front and back of the plate under the diff, the shock bolts, and the two shafts that hold the lower wishbones. Once all that is removed you can lift the cage off and have easy access to everything.
My next question (and thank you for everyone's patience)
Regarding the differential leak. Is changing all seals standard operating procedure? In searching threads, the Wizard of Oz mentioned that some leaks are more likely old fluid rather than a bad seal, which causes some confusion. Do I order all the seals, or do I just renew the fluid and wait and see? The downside being that I'd have to drop the cage again...
Just bringing this up to the top to ask my question again re seals.
Is changing all seals standard operating procedure? In searching threads, the Wizard of Oz mentioned that some leaks are more likely old fluid rather than a bad seal, which causes some confusion. Do I order all the seals, or do I just renew the fluid and wait and see? The downside being that I'd have to drop the cage again...
06-03-2023, 11:50 AM
IRS Cage Drop Coaching Needed
